RealGM

We don't need another complete team makeover, just a couple of changes will do:

1. Sign Ariza with our MLE - if the Lakers don't bring him back, there will be other teams vying for his services. The advantage we have is the former Bruin gets to stay in LA and play in the same building. And to get paid handsomely on top of that? He might take it, who knows? Ariza gives us something Thornton doesn't...DEFENSE. I wouldn't be upset if he ends up taking his starting position.

2. Trade Kaman for Hinrich - Though I'd still prefer ZBo to go, Kaman is more likely to be dealt, and if we can nab Hinrich, that gives us a backup PG, actually a backup guard for both Gordon and Davis. And should Davis get injured(which is likely) or lose his desire, Hinrich could easily slide into the starting spot. It's a win-win situation.

Our lineup:

PF - Griffin/ZBo
SF - Thornton/Ariza
C - Camby/Jordan
SG - Gordon/Hinrich
PG - Davis/Hinrich/Taylor

Thoughts?

I like both, let's do it!

I've always wanted to move Kaman, the only nagin doubt in my head is what happens down the road? Camby is getting older and his contract ends, and I wouldn't be surprised if ZBo was traded after next year. So do we just keep Cave Man?

If I knew Baron would just try next year, I would be inclined to not trade for Hinrich. OTOH who can count on that...

Works for me. Randolph is gonna be the hardest to trade. Chicago may want Camby instead of Kaman because his contract is better and comes off the books after a year which is also when Brad Miller's contract comes off the books so they would have roughly $20 million to play with next year (could go for a new center or re-sign Camby with). I'd prefer to keep Camby, but could be the only way to get it done, and worth it I'd say.

Not sure about Ariza though. Hinrich is tall enough to play a back-up SF against a small team, and Griffin is big enough to work SF if need be. I'm not sure we need to add another salary and should just stick to the Kaman orCamby trade for Hinrich (which works either way via trade checker). Plus, I think Thorton with an improved Baron, Gordon and Griffin would be fun and young to watch! Plus I kinda just hate adding any Lakers player.

I really like Kirk Hinrich, but i would only trade for him if Davis is moved first.
There's just no need for a backup earning $9 mil a season, no matter how good Hinrich is and how good of a backcourt partner he's for Eric Gorden.

I also wouldn't throw the full MLE at Ariza, as i think there are cheaper players around that could just do the same job for us.
A guy like Ime Udoka is just as good of a defender, able to hit his open jumpshots and would cost us only about half the MLE, if at all.
There's also a guy like Danny Green, who should be a second round pick in this years draft.

All things considered, i think we could get help at those positions way cheaper, even though i wouldn't mind Hinrich on the Clips, as long as Baron's gone.

Det the Threat wrote:I really like Kirk Hinrich, but i would only trade for him if Davis is moved first.
There's just no need for a backup earning $9 mil a season, no matter how good Hinrich is and how good of a backcourt partner he's for Eric Gorden.

I also wouldn't throw the full MLE at Ariza, as i think there are cheaper players around that could just do the same job for us.
A guy like Ime Udoka is just as good of a defender, able to hit his open jumpshots and would cost us only about half the MLE, if at all.
There's also a guy like Danny Green, who should be a second round pick in this years draft.

All things considered, i think we could get help at those positions way cheaper, even though i wouldn't mind Hinrich on the Clips, as long as Baron's gone.

We're essentially swap Kaman and Hinrich's contracts(both 3 years remaining). The difference is Hinrich's is frontloaded, so he'll be at 8M in his final year, whereas Kaman will be at 12.2M. Hinrich played behind Derrick Rose all year and didn't complain once, he carried himself in a true professional manner. If Baron continues to dog it, we can always trade him, as his contract becomes more attractive as time passes.

As for Ariza, I think he's worth the MLE. Who do you think we should sign with our MLE? Udoka's alright, but had a subpar year in San Antonio, I don't think he'll have as much of an impact as Ariza. Danny Green would be a nice pickup, but we don't have any 2nd round picks, unless Dumbleavy makes a deal.

Simple plan and it fills our holes. I like it.

illastrate wrote:We're essentially swap Kaman and Hinrich's contracts(both 3 years remaining). The difference is Hinrich's is frontloaded, so he'll be at 8M in his final year, whereas Kaman will be at 12.2M. Hinrich played behind Derrick Rose all year and didn't complain once, he carried himself in a true professional manner. If Baron continues to dog it, we can always trade him, as his contract becomes more attractive as time passes.

Kaman plays a position were only Marcus Camby(expiring contract, probable trade bait) and DeAndre Jordan are playing.
He could also be a very nice player along Blake Griffin, as long as he's healthy.
Hinrich would create a lock jam, as he plays two positions we're either paying very much(Davis) or hoping to have a franchise player(Gordon) at.
He also didn't complain that much(though, he told everyone that it's tough to come off the bench), because he was injured at least half the season and couldn't do anything about it.

And as far as trading goes. It should be way easier to move Kaman, then Davis, cause center is a position many teams are looking for and are willing to take a gamble on. Point Guard, on the other hand, rather not, especially if that guy has a history of injuries and still for more years left on his contract.

That's why i'd only trade for Hinrich if we're able to trade Davis. If not, then i'd just sign or trade for a cheaper back up, that could play those 10 - 15 minutes required. This would also still give Mike Taylor a shot at some minutes.

Also, in doing that, we could trade Kaman either for a position of need(sf) or to add some pieces(younger players/picks) to put them next to Griffin and Gordon.

illastrate wrote:As for Ariza, I think he's worth the MLE. Who do you think we should sign with our MLE? Udoka's alright, but had a subpar year in San Antonio, I don't think he'll have as much of an impact as Ariza. Danny Green would be a nice pickup, but we don't have any 2nd round picks, unless Dumbleavy makes a deal.

I don't think we should use the full MLE on one guy.
I'd rather split it up and i think we'll have to, with Novak and possibly Fred Jones being free agents.
I also don't give all that much about Udoka's last year in SA, as he just didn't made it into the rotation behind all those swingmen. Giving him a two year $4 - $5 mil deal should be enough and net us a nice veteran being able to play next to Griffin/Gordon, while also pushing Thornton to produce more and more consistant.

BTW: 2nd round picks can be bought for a couple of dollars or traded for rather easily, if we're willing to trade another 2nd rounder for it.

I doubt we will be able to get Ariza. Either he will go back to the Lakers, or some team with cap space, like DET or TOR will pay him more than the MLE.

Det the Threat wrote:Kaman plays a position were only Marcus Camby(expiring contract, probable trade bait) and DeAndre Jordan are playing.
He could also be a very nice player along Blake Griffin, as long as he's healthy.
Hinrich would create a lock jam, as he plays two positions we're either paying very much(Davis) or hoping to have a franchise player(Gordon) at.
He also didn't complain that much(though, he told everyone that it's tough to come off the bench), because he was injured at least half the season and couldn't do anything about it.

And as far as trading goes. It should be way easier to move Kaman, then Davis, cause center is a position many teams are looking for and are willing to take a gamble on. Point Guard, on the other hand, rather not, especially if that guy has a history of injuries and still for more years left on his contract.

That's why i'd only trade for Hinrich if we're able to trade Davis. If not, then i'd just sign or trade for a cheaper back up, that could play those 10 - 15 minutes required. This would also still give Mike Taylor a shot at some minutes.

Also, in doing that, we could trade Kaman either for a position of need(sf) or to add some pieces(younger players/picks) to put them next to Griffin and Gordon.

Since Camby will be an expiring contract, couldn't we trade him at the deadline for a serviceable big? If not, we can let him go off the books and use that $ to sign a center in the offseason. Or how would you like this - Kaman for Tayshaun Prince? That fills our need for a 2-way swingman.

I don't think we should use the full MLE on one guy.
I'd rather split it up and i think we'll have to, with Novak and possibly Fred Jones being free agents.
I also don't give all that much about Udoka's last year in SA, as he just didn't made it into the rotation behind all those swingmen. Giving him a two year $4 - $5 mil deal should be enough and net us a nice veteran being able to play next to Griffin/Gordon, while also pushing Thornton to produce more and more consistant.

BTW: 2nd round picks can be bought for a couple of dollars or traded for rather easily, if we're willing to trade another 2nd rounder for it.

Shouldn't we be able to re-sign Jones or Novak, and then use the MLE to sign a nice backup guard? Well, I guess if we re-sign Jones, we could look at a guy like Brandon Bass to help our frontline. The point is, we have options, and there's a few ways we can come out with a successful offseason.

Great idea in theory but in practice I really doubt the Lakers will let Ariza sign with someone else. I think this will be Odom's last year with the lakers whether or not they win it all. So then they will use that cap space to resign Ariza. IMO if it weren't for Ariza the Lakers would have been eliminated already.

Ariza's played himself into a good situation. There's probably a few teams that are interested in him. It might be hard to get him though, but hey, the LA factor might be involved.

And I'm indifferent with Hinrich. The way I see it is, as long as Davis is our point guard, it won't be right to get a starting caliber point guard to back him up. Either trade him and bring in a replacement starting point guard (Hinrich's capable I think), or get a strictly back-up point, preferably a pass-first one. Someone like a Steve Blake or an Earl Watson. I still want to see what a motivated Baron can do with our lineup, especially with Griffin, and one year to build some sort of chemistry.

My patience is also wearing thin with Kaman, especially with the whole German Olympics thing, which probably led to him being injured for like the whole damn season. I'd like to keep Camby, and see if we can resign him when the time comes. Hopefully Jordan will develop faster with Camby on the team.

I don't like Ariza. After he gets his paycheck, I doubt will see the same hustle we see from him right now, with the Clippers or any other team that isn't the Lakers.

illastrate wrote:Since Camby will be an expiring contract, couldn't we trade him at the deadline for a serviceable big? If not, we can let him go off the books and use that $ to sign a center in the offseason. Or how would you like this - Kaman for Tayshaun Prince? That fills our need for a 2-way swingman.

We sure could trade Camby for a replacement, but which team would give up a good center for him?
No team, that is and the only guys we could get in return are those Samuel Dalembert's of this league, who teams are trying to get rid of, because they aren't worth the contract they're under.

Kaman for Prince would be something i'd like, because it would help us at the sf position and make us a deeper club, as Thornton would then become our 6th man.

illastrate wrote:Shouldn't we be able to re-sign Jones or Novak, and then use the MLE to sign a nice backup guard? Well, I guess if we re-sign Jones, we could look at a guy like Brandon Bass to help our frontline. The point is, we have options, and there's a few ways we can come out with a successful offseason.

Novak yes, Jones no.
We've got Novak's bird rights and can offer him the most money, while still not touching our MLE.
Jones was just signed during the season and we therefore do not have his bird rights, as he's an unrestricted free agent.

BTW: Are we under the cap?
If so, we probably aren't too much under it and therefore have to signal, that we want to use the MLE, instead of just the money we're under the cap.

I doubt the Pistons would trade Tay for Kaman. That would leave the Pistons with nobody at all at the 3. I guess they could sign somebody to take his place though

hell no to Ariza!!

Roscoe Sheed wrote:I doubt the Pistons would trade Tay for Kaman. That would leave the Pistons with nobody at all at the 3. I guess they could sign somebody to take his place though

If you go to the Pistons board, they generally wanna blow up their team and start fresh with young talent. A few people have said they'd give up Prince for Kaman. Someone suggested Prince, Maxiell and their #15 for Kaman and Thornton.

I wouldn't mind getting Ariza, but if we can sign someone similar to him that's cheaper I'd rather that we do that.

illastrate wrote:

Roscoe Sheed wrote:I doubt the Pistons would trade Tay for Kaman. That would leave the Pistons with nobody at all at the 3. I guess they could sign somebody to take his place though

If you go to the Pistons board, they generally wanna blow up their team and start fresh with young talent. A few people have said they'd give up Prince for Kaman. Someone suggested Prince, Maxiell and their #15 for Kaman and Thornton.

That's an awesome trade if it were true. Prince is from LA, and can use his Championship experience to help out the team.

Kaman + Thornton for Prince, Maxiell, and #15 pick.

i dont care who we get but we do need a athletic swing man like Ariza cuz we have no defense what so ever

Roscoe Sheed wrote:I doubt the Pistons would trade Tay for Kaman. That would leave the Pistons with nobody at all at the 3. I guess they could sign somebody to take his place though

I was thinking the same thing. This deal works...

Kaman + Thornton + Taylor

for

Prince + Stuckey

...but would they do it? Probably not.