Andrew34r wrote:A trade needs to be worked out for wither Graffy or Counsel ...as well as a trade for Gabe Gross to get Tony Gwynn more playing time.
All those guys are valuable bench players. I'd rather keep them since they're cheap.
THE Ryan Braun and Yo-Go Thread
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goirish2107
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the brewers are not lacking offensively right now. in the overall stats thread they're in the top four in almost all offensive categories. let him stay, because he's not ready to be an every day 3b. he'll get up here and get his chance. I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade with graff/counsell, capellan, jackson, or even mench/jenkins to get someone here later in the year and to bring up one of these two guys (gallardo and braun)
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ReasonablySober
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shortstrokes wrote:As long as the Brewers keep winning and the wheels don't fall off the wagon offensively, Braun will stay down on the farm.
So far, I have been pleasantly surprised at Counsell's clutch hitting. Graffy - not so much.
Agreed.
Like most everyone I can't wait to see Braun up here. But we're scoring runs and winning ball games. There's no need to bring either Yo or Braun up. Let them continue to work in AAA until we really need them once injuries occur (and they will).
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crkone
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If Sheets doesn't come up to speed with his curveball, we should send him down to AAA and call up Gallardo.
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Chach
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Red Sox fan here. Glad to see so many guys following Braun because I'm a huge fan of his as well. I have him in a fantasy keeper league so I will be rooting for him selfishly but I've always had my eye on him since the draft because I thougth he was an intriguing player, especially if he could stick at 3rd.
I would disagree about not calling him up though. One of two situations occurs when a player gets called up, they either light the world on fire and then come down to earth (Frenchy down in Atlanta two years ago) or they struggle early on and will get going with more experience (Alex Gordon). Gallardo would probably be best served at AAA for two reasons 1)you can limit his innings a lot easier at AAA and protect his young arm. If you call him up and are in a pennant race and he is pitching extremely well, you may run him out there for too many innings and have him pile up too many innings before passing through that injury nexus. And 2)I remember hearing that he had a little of polishing left to do at AAA before he broke into the majors. I have't heard scouting reports on him but those numbers suggest that he is polishing those minor flaws away pretty quickly. However, I think that Braun would be better served in the majors. A couple more weeks at AAA won't kill him but if he's not called up by Memorial Day, you're wasting time with him down there. If those injuries do flair up, like have been mentioned in this thread, you'd be better served if he got his bumps in early (like Gordon is now) and if the team's offense slows down by June/July, he would be coming into his own and playing at a respectable level and he could help carry the load.
That's half-right, he MIGHT not count. You hit arbitration after three full years in the majors but there is something called a "super two" who hits arbitration when he's only had two FULL seasons in the majors. I believe that it is the top 20% of the rookie class (in this case, the 2007 rookie class) who doesn't have three full seasons of service time that are eligible for arbitration. By waiting another 4 weeks, you reduce the chances of Braun being a Super Two but he will still spend 60% of the season in the majors and, as far as I can remember, there hasn't been a rookie who's been called up and stuck. Most of them have been like with the Yankees spot starters like Wright, who get called up and sent down. Chances are, he won't be back up before the season is over with and he'll only have a few weeks of service time. You won't find out until the end of the season really. And if you're going to get extra production out of him, especially if you guys make the playoffs, that extra time won't matter much. You could always lock him up early like you did with Sheets. If he were hitting .300/.400/.500 at AAA, I'd say that isn't bad but he could use more time down there and it's not worth risking the service time but the kid is absolutely destroying AAA. But that's just my opinion, you're all welcome to disagree. mahalo
~Chach~
I would disagree about not calling him up though. One of two situations occurs when a player gets called up, they either light the world on fire and then come down to earth (Frenchy down in Atlanta two years ago) or they struggle early on and will get going with more experience (Alex Gordon). Gallardo would probably be best served at AAA for two reasons 1)you can limit his innings a lot easier at AAA and protect his young arm. If you call him up and are in a pennant race and he is pitching extremely well, you may run him out there for too many innings and have him pile up too many innings before passing through that injury nexus. And 2)I remember hearing that he had a little of polishing left to do at AAA before he broke into the majors. I have't heard scouting reports on him but those numbers suggest that he is polishing those minor flaws away pretty quickly. However, I think that Braun would be better served in the majors. A couple more weeks at AAA won't kill him but if he's not called up by Memorial Day, you're wasting time with him down there. If those injuries do flair up, like have been mentioned in this thread, you'd be better served if he got his bumps in early (like Gordon is now) and if the team's offense slows down by June/July, he would be coming into his own and playing at a respectable level and he could help carry the load.
El Duderino wrote:I say hes up in about 2 weeks.
No chance of that barring an injury.If they wait 4 weeks,it won't count as a year of service time.
I'll stick by June 1st
That's half-right, he MIGHT not count. You hit arbitration after three full years in the majors but there is something called a "super two" who hits arbitration when he's only had two FULL seasons in the majors. I believe that it is the top 20% of the rookie class (in this case, the 2007 rookie class) who doesn't have three full seasons of service time that are eligible for arbitration. By waiting another 4 weeks, you reduce the chances of Braun being a Super Two but he will still spend 60% of the season in the majors and, as far as I can remember, there hasn't been a rookie who's been called up and stuck. Most of them have been like with the Yankees spot starters like Wright, who get called up and sent down. Chances are, he won't be back up before the season is over with and he'll only have a few weeks of service time. You won't find out until the end of the season really. And if you're going to get extra production out of him, especially if you guys make the playoffs, that extra time won't matter much. You could always lock him up early like you did with Sheets. If he were hitting .300/.400/.500 at AAA, I'd say that isn't bad but he could use more time down there and it's not worth risking the service time but the kid is absolutely destroying AAA. But that's just my opinion, you're all welcome to disagree. mahalo
~Chach~
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JoeJohnson2two
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trwi7 wrote:Braun- .338/.423/.765/1.188/7 HR's/14 RBI's/10 BB's/7 K's/3 SB's/3 CS
Gallardo- 3-1/2.35 ERA/.91 WHIP/7 BB's/33 K's
The future is B-R-I-G-H-T!
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan
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jakecronus8
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Ayt
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Chach, I agree with you about both Braun and Gallardo. It would be very foolish to bring up Gallardo to start since he's so young. The most innings he's pitched is 154 last year and prior to that he had two seasons at 120. I've seen way too many young pitchers go down to want to see Gallardo as a MLB player at age 21.
Braun on the other hand needs to be in the majors ASAP. People can say "we are scoring runs anyway" but that is a weak argument; you can always score more runs people, and it would be shocking to see Braun not be able to outhit Counsellino. Our 3B production is just atrocious.
Don't be blinded by winning. Those two need to be replaced by someone who can actually hit. So far at 3B we've gotten this:
.244 BA
.333 OBP
.333 SLG
.666 OPS
1 HR
13 RBI
Counsell has been especially terrible and he's playing more than Graffy:
.188 BA
.286 OBP
.292 SLG
.578
There are some pitchers hitting better than him.
Neither of those guys are cut out to be everyday starters at this point even as middle infielders. At 3B, they are laughably bad.
Braun on the other hand needs to be in the majors ASAP. People can say "we are scoring runs anyway" but that is a weak argument; you can always score more runs people, and it would be shocking to see Braun not be able to outhit Counsellino. Our 3B production is just atrocious.
Don't be blinded by winning. Those two need to be replaced by someone who can actually hit. So far at 3B we've gotten this:
.244 BA
.333 OBP
.333 SLG
.666 OPS
1 HR
13 RBI
Counsell has been especially terrible and he's playing more than Graffy:
.188 BA
.286 OBP
.292 SLG
.578
There are some pitchers hitting better than him.
Neither of those guys are cut out to be everyday starters at this point even as middle infielders. At 3B, they are laughably bad.
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Ayt
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LUKE23 wrote:Our 3B production is currently 3rd worst in the major leagues with regards to OPS. That says 2 things:
1. Braun needs to be up sooner rather than later, you can never score too many runs or have too good an offense.
2. I feel bad for the two teams that have worse 3B than we do.
Where did you get the stats by position? I was looking for that a few days ago.
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Ryan5UW
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ryanbraun75 wrote:sometimes i worry that the brewers have too many good prospects. i mean look at it. They are stacked for 6 years with Hardy, Braun, Weeks, Fielder, Hall, Hart. Where do people like Lorenzo Cain, Tony Gwynn Jr., Cole Gillespie, Hernan Iribarren, Alcides Escobar and all of them fit in?? I just wonder sometimes.
i think that in a few years maybe 2 or 3 our Rotation and Lineup should look like this:
1B: Prince Fielder
2B: Rickie Weeks
3B: Ryan Braun
SS: JJ Hardy
LF: Lorenzo Cain
CF: Bill Hall
RF: Corey Hart
C: Angel Solome
Ben Sheets
Yovani Gallardo
Will Inman
Chris Capuano
Jeff Suppan
I mean where does Bush, Villanueva, Sarfate, Jackson, Jeffress and all of them fit in.
im tellin ya we may have too many good prospects!! lol
literally impossible!
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LUKE23
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Ayt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Where did you get the stats by position? I was looking for that a few days ago.
I got that info from bfan.net a couple days ago, but you can filter it in yahoo as well.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bypos ... =1&sort=25
Graffy and Counsell's current OPS' are .642 (actually lower with today's game) and .629.