Cousins

[JWizmentality]

Remember when I said Kirk would compete for RG3's job, and there would be a quarterback controversy?

That, and that I thought Demarcus Cousins is better than John Wall.

The board is pretty dead. Haters and others what say you now?

Wall is still better than Cousins.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Demarcus put a gold medal around his neck. Wall didn't make the squad. Cousins played very well for Team USA.

JWiz, Cousins' PER last season was 26. 5th in the league. Demarcus was #1 in Def Rebound %.

He is better than John Wall.

[nuposse04]

Remember when I said Kirk would compete for RG3's job, and there would be a quarterback controversy?

That, and that I thought Demarcus Cousins is better than John Wall.

The board is pretty dead. Haters and others what say you now?

I think RG III has more ability then Cousins, and he looked damn good to start the game, but he is sooooo fragile. I'm not really an RG III fan, as I can't stand overly religious athletes but I still think he has higher upside. I think the Jags defense would have been picked apart regardless of who finished the game. Not having to send double or triple teams against JJ Watt is big. I do think Cousins can be a playoff QB in this league tho. I don't know if he has as big as an arm as RG III but he makes very good decisions for the most part. I'd expect that from a QB who is about 1.5 years older then RG III.

As to Wall and DMC....eh I think by themselves they'd both lead mediocre talent to treadmill playoff status. I'll give a slight edge to DMC for now based on production, hard to find such productive big men in this league, although I don't care for him as a defensive anchor.

[DCZards]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

Demarcus put a gold medal around his neck. Wall didn't make the squad. Cousins played very well for Team USA.

JWiz, Cousins' PER last season was 26. 5th in the league. Demarcus was #1 in Def Rebound %.

He is better than John Wall.

Cousins did indeed play well for Team USA. But that team wins gold with or without Demarcus. Let's see if Cousins can take his Sac team into the NBA playoffs...like Wall has done for the Zards.

As for Kirk, I've always loved his skill set. He played great today. But let's remember that the Jags defense sucks. They gave up 34 pts in the second half to the Eagles last week. I believe any of the three Skins QBs...RGIII, Cousins or Colt McCoy...would have put up 30 plus points on the Jags.

[Kanyewest]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

Demarcus put a gold medal around his neck. Wall didn't make the squad. Cousins played very well for Team USA.

JWiz, Cousins' PER last season was 26. 5th in the league. Demarcus was #1 in Def Rebound %.

He is better than John Wall.

Cousins did indeed play well for Team USA. But that team wins gold with or without Demarcus. Let's see if Cousins can take his Sac team into the NBA playoffs...like Wall has done for the Zards.

As for Kirk, I've always loved his skill set. He played great today. But let's remember that the Jags defense sucks. They gave up 34 pts in the second half to the Eagles last week. I believe any of the three Skins QBs...RGIII, Cousins or Colt McCoy...would have put up 30 plus points on the Jags.

Cousins has clearly been in a worse situation than Wall last year. It will be interesting to see how it would play out. Personally, I might have to think CCJ wouldn't have been wrong in getting Cousins, it just would have been a different route to go about building the team. Heck, if CJJ was in charge, the Wizards would have had Lillard, Faried to go along with Cousins. I'm not sure that Wolters is better than Rice Jr.

The Team USA experience has shown that Cousins was more valuable than Wall simply because Cousins is one of the top bigs. I would personally think Cousins at this point is more valuable because it is harder to finds quality bigs IMO than a quality point guard- although they are both different pick.

But at the end of the day, Wall is a better pick. IMO, Washington and the fan base wouldn't have had the patience for Cousins antics0 he would have demonized like Gilbert, Kwame, or Blatche. Wall for now is a team first guy who plays defense. He still needs to work on his jumper though but this past season.


As for RG3, I agree. I talked to someone at a party who said RG3 wouldn't have been hurt if he was out of the pocket which may have been one of the dumbest things I heard. I will concended that RG3 should have given up on that play though and thrown the ball away to live to see another day. I thought Griffin was showing flashes of putting it together. His injury was unfortunate and hopefully he can recover to at least prove what he can do.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Remember when I said Kirk would compete for RG3's job, and there would be a quarterback controversy?

That, and that I thought Demarcus Cousins is better than John Wall.

The board is pretty dead. Haters and others what say you now?

I think RG III has more ability then Cousins, and he looked damn good to start the game, but he is sooooo fragile. I'm not really an RG III fan, as I can't stand overly religious athletes but I still think he has higher upside. I think the Jags defense would have been picked apart regardless of who finished the game. Not having to send double or triple teams against JJ Watt is big. I do think Cousins can be a playoff QB in this league tho. I don't know if he has as big as an arm as RG III but he makes very good decisions for the most part. I'd expect that from a QB who is about 1.5 years older then RG III.

As to Wall and DMC....eh I think by themselves they'd both lead mediocre talent to treadmill playoff status. I'll give a slight edge to DMC for now based on production, hard to find such productive big men in this league, although I don't care for him as a defensive anchor.

Hate to disappoint you but Kirk Cousins can quote Bible scripture from memory better than most who have finished seminary. He is a man of genuine, strong, Christian faith. He's like Billy Graham and Patton roled into one as a speaker.

I agree on Griffin having more ability, but I won't be shocked if he is traded down the line. Yes, because of the injuries.

That said I expect Cousins will succeed.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

Demarcus put a gold medal around his neck. Wall didn't make the squad. Cousins played very well for Team USA.

JWiz, Cousins' PER last season was 26. 5th in the league. Demarcus was #1 in Def Rebound %.

He is better than John Wall.

Cousins did indeed play well for Team USA. But that team wins gold with or without Demarcus. Let's see if Cousins can take his Sac team into the NBA playoffs...like Wall has done for the Zards.

As for Kirk, I've always loved his skill set. He played great today. But let's remember that the Jags defense sucks. They gave up 34 pts in the second half to the Eagles last week. I believe any of the three Skins QBs...RGIII, Cousins or Colt McCoy...would have put up 30 plus points on the Jags.

Demarcus Cousins surprised me with his defense for Team USA. He took charges, blocked shots, and continually moved his feet well while defending screen role. Sacramento needs to do what Washington did to make the playoffs--sign some AARP types. They signed Jason Terry, but I am not sure what he has left in the tank.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

Demarcus put a gold medal around his neck. Wall didn't make the squad. Cousins played very well for Team USA.

JWiz, Cousins' PER last season was 26. 5th in the league. Demarcus was #1 in Def Rebound %.

He is better than John Wall.

Cousins did indeed play well for Team USA. But that team wins gold with or without Demarcus. Let's see if Cousins can take his Sac team into the NBA playoffs...like Wall has done for the Zards.

As for Kirk, I've always loved his skill set. He played great today. But let's remember that the Jags defense sucks. They gave up 34 pts in the second half to the Eagles last week. I believe any of the three Skins QBs...RGIII, Cousins or Colt McCoy...would have put up 30 plus points on the Jags.

Cousins has clearly been in a worse situation than Wall last year. It will be interesting to see how it would play out. Personally, I might have to think CCJ wouldn't have been wrong in getting Cousins, it just would have been a different route to go about building the team. Heck, if CJJ was in charge, the Wizards would have had Lillard, Faried to go along with Cousins. I'm not sure that Wolters is better than Rice Jr.

The Team USA experience has shown that Cousins was more valuable than Wall simply because Cousins is one of the top bigs. I would personally think Cousins at this point is more valuable because it is harder to finds quality bigs IMO than a quality point guard- although they are both different pick.

But at the end of the day, Wall is a better pick. IMO, Washington and the fan base wouldn't have had the patience for Cousins antics0 he would have demonized like Gilbert, Kwame, or Blatche. Wall for now is a team first guy who plays defense. He still needs to work on his jumper though but this past season.


As for RG3, I agree. I talked to someone at a party who said RG3 wouldn't have been hurt if he was out of the pocket which may have been one of the dumbest things I heard. I will concended that RG3 should have given up on that play though and thrown the ball away to live to see another day. I thought Griffin was showing flashes of putting it together. His injury was unfortunate and hopefully he can recover to at least prove what he can do.

My thoughts at draft time in 2010 had to do with their being many PGs, but few really good bigs. I predicted Wall would struggle as a rookie going against veteran PGs. (In fairness, Cousins struggled mightily as a rookie.) Also at draft time, I preferred trading down from #1 Wall and instead drafting two of Cousins and Turner or Favors. Wall was the consensus, most-coveted, top pick. A trade down might have generated two picks. Demarcus and another player seemed like a no brainer to me. It was not simply Cousins for Wall straight up.

As for RG3, I think he is destined to have many productive years in the league. This injury will give him time to reflect and to heal physically and mentally.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Double post.

[nate33]

The Team USA experience has shown that Cousins was more valuable than Wall simply because Cousins is one of the top bigs. I would personally think Cousins at this point is more valuable because it is harder to finds quality bigs IMO than a quality point guard- although they are both different pick.

But at the end of the day, Wall is a better pick. IMO, Washington and the fan base wouldn't have had the patience for Cousins antics0 he would have demonized like Gilbert, Kwame, or Blatche. Wall for now is a team first guy who plays defense. He still needs to work on his jumper though but this past season.

I agree with all of this. Back during the draft, when CCJ was suggesting we pick Cousins, I don't think all that many of us felt it was a terrible idea talent-wise. Cousins certainly had all the physical ability and statistical production in college to suggest he could turn out to be an extremely productive pro. The big question at the time (and it's still a question now IMO) is whether Cousins had the temperament to be a leader. The Wizards were in sad shape in the locker room at the time, and bringing on an unstable element like Cousins could have been a disaster. For that reason, I think Wall was the right choice and I stand by it. Even if Wall doesn't pan out to be quite as talented individually as Cousins, I think the team that has been built around Wall is more professional and will ultimately attract more top tier free agents.

[Dat2U]

Demarcus put a gold medal around his neck. Wall didn't make the squad. Cousins played very well for Team USA.

JWiz, Cousins' PER last season was 26. 5th in the league. Demarcus was #1 in Def Rebound %.

He is better than John Wall.

You let me know when Sacramento has won anything... aren't you the same person that's been predicting playoffs for the Kings the last two years??? No one questions Cousins' ability to get numbers, we all question whether he does enough of the little things to help his team win games.

You sight empty PER & rebound numbers of guy that played on a 54-loss team, while ignoring how much those losses have to do with his unwillingness to defend at a passable level & take smart shots offensively.

[Ed Wood]

I've tended to be a pretty reductionist stats-are-a-largely-effective-representation-of-a-player's-contributions guy so I don't think I can argue too fervently that they shouldn't be credited in Cousins' case. I think he isn't a very good defensive player and that isn't something that is quite as well accounted for at least by at the more common metrics like PER, and is a legitimate knock on him as a player who is otherwise a force in the math department. I also don't like his offensive game, and traditionally it did result in a lot of activity but not necessarily in a way that advantaged his team but he was better in that regard last year.

Overall yeah, Cousins is very probably a better player than Wall at this point, and probably will be in terms of his ability to impact a game to a degree that not very many players in the NBA can or will for the next little while. Cousins is probably going to continue to suffer the blemish of playing on a bad team at least for this coming year, and his deficiencies will be a part of that, but it's also hard to really lay the Kings' problems at his feat when there are a lot of rotation players on that team who are still in that might-be-young, might-just-be-bad window when they're going to be given a decent number of minutes without having to avoid being awful. That said Wall is still less likely to define a team with his limitations as well as his strengths, which is a pretty empty statement but I don't know, Sacramento just puts weird rosters together and I don't know what part of that is Cousins.

The other (football) Cousins played very yesterday, and could very well be able to continue to just doing that regularly, but RGIII was having a very strong game prior to his injury as well and probably some of it is just that the Jaguars didn't manage a particularly memorable defensive effort.

[Dat2U]

Cousins plays a position where you absolutely have to defend. There's no way getting around that. The quickest way to turn around a bad team is having a big that can successfully clog the paint and challenge shots. Considering they had Isaiah Thomas, who CCJ will tell you is better than Wall; Rudy Gay, a USA team member himself & a solid starting PF in Jason Thompson, their cupboard was not bare.

Point is, it's going to be very hard for Cousins to win in this league unless he significantly improves on the defensive end.

[dckingsfan]

Just for the record, Sac's cupboard is pretty bare. Possibly the works start SG in the L last year (yeah, he was a rookie so you play through that when you are a bad team) and Thompson absolutely stinks - and was even worse the first half of the year.

They definitely have a dearth of talent - and they will probably lose Gay in the off-season as well.

[TGW]

Just for the record, Sac's cupboard is pretty bare. Possibly the works start SG in the L last year (yeah, he was a rookie so you play through that when you are a bad team) and Thompson absolutely stinks - and was even worse the first half of the year.

They definitely have a dearth of talent - and they will probably lose Gay in the off-season as well.

Just the fact that the Kings can't even challenge for an 8th seed shows how little an effect Cousins has on his teams. He's a statpadder.

Maybe when he's traded to a franchise that can actually make him into an effective player, he'll be successful.

[Ruzious]

Just for the record, Sac's cupboard is pretty bare. Possibly the works start SG in the L last year (yeah, he was a rookie so you play through that when you are a bad team) and Thompson absolutely stinks - and was even worse the first half of the year.

They definitely have a dearth of talent - and they will probably lose Gay in the off-season as well.

We think Wall will attract free agents. With Cousins, Isaiah Thomas left as a free agent. If the name of the game is building a winner, it's hard to say it was a mistake to pass on Sacramento's Cousins. Both Wall and Cousins started out in lousy situations. Wall's situation seems a lot better after 4 years - despite having a lousy GM running things. It doesn't seem a shocker that Cousins' situation is still terrible.

Are these Cousins related?

[Nivek]

I continue to think it's kinda strange to look at an awful team and blame that awfulness on the team's best and most productive player. Last season, Cousins was good. In my stuff (and in RAPM), he rated as having a solid defensive impact. Rudy Gay was the only other player on the Kings roster who rated average or better in the defensive impact portion of my metric.

Cousins has hurt the Kings on offense, but that was better last season as well. He needs to continue improving on both ends, but a) he HAS shown significant improvement already; b) he's a productive NBA player; and c) he's 24 years old. His best years are likely 2-3 more years away.

Now consider the rest of the roster. Last season, the team got very good production from Cousins and decent production from Thomas and Gay. Everyone else who got decent minutes on the team was bad. The Kings gave more than 4600 minutes to players who rated replacement level or worse in my metric. If they'd played in the East, they'd probably have been in contention for that 8th playoff spot.

[Dark Faze]

Would still take Wall. C is much deeper than people think. If the Wiz didn't trade for Gortat they would have had their choice of paying either him or Monroe this off-season. Both really solid players.

Free agent PG's were Isaiah Thomas and Eric Bledsoe...both who have significant flaws in defense and healthy respectively.

[nuposse04]

Remember when I said Kirk would compete for RG3's job, and there would be a quarterback controversy?

That, and that I thought Demarcus Cousins is better than John Wall.

The board is pretty dead. Haters and others what say you now?

I think RG III has more ability then Cousins, and he looked damn good to start the game, but he is sooooo fragile. I'm not really an RG III fan, as I can't stand overly religious athletes but I still think he has higher upside. I think the Jags defense would have been picked apart regardless of who finished the game. Not having to send double or triple teams against JJ Watt is big. I do think Cousins can be a playoff QB in this league tho. I don't know if he has as big as an arm as RG III but he makes very good decisions for the most part. I'd expect that from a QB who is about 1.5 years older then RG III.

As to Wall and DMC....eh I think by themselves they'd both lead mediocre talent to treadmill playoff status. I'll give a slight edge to DMC for now based on production, hard to find such productive big men in this league, although I don't care for him as a defensive anchor.

Hate to disappoint you but Kirk Cousins can quote Bible scripture from memory better than most who have finished seminary. He is a man of genuine, strong, Christian faith. He's like Billy Graham and Patton roled into one as a speaker.

I agree on Griffin having more ability, but I won't be shocked if he is traded down the line. Yes, because of the injuries.

That said I expect Cousins will succeed.

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I'm aware of that but he isn't like to that degree of it as RG III off the field, at least from w/e social media forums and interviews it doesn't come off that way to me. It is a bias of mine but definitely not a deal breaker at the end of the day. I just want the guy who will help us win a championship at the end of the day. I think RG III can be a superbowl QB, I think Cousins is a more sure thing for playoff appearances, not sold he has the upside as a superbowl QB, but I would love to be wrong.

The same kind of generalization probably applies to Wall and Cousins. I think if Cousins does put all together he can be a top 3-5 player. Even if Wall puts it all together, I'm not sure he can crack top 5. I like both players and will root for them in their futures regardless.

[dckingsfan]

Just for the record, Sac's cupboard is pretty bare. Possibly the works start SG in the L last year (yeah, he was a rookie so you play through that when you are a bad team) and Thompson absolutely stinks - and was even worse the first half of the year.

They definitely have a dearth of talent - and they will probably lose Gay in the off-season as well.

Just the fact that the Kings can't even challenge for an 8th seed shows how little an effect Cousins has on his teams. He's a statpadder.

Maybe when he's traded to a franchise that can actually make him into an effective player, he'll be successful.

My point is that the Kings are that bad. Without Cousins they literally would have been the very worst team in the league.