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Hail To The Redskins

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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1421 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jan 4, 2010 3:28 pm

Remember you can discuss the Zorn firing and everything else Redskins at their official board:

viewforum.php?f=182

See you there!
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1422 » by pancakes3 » Mon Jan 4, 2010 7:19 pm

echoing what everyone else is saying and...

Rebuilding is something you have to do wholeheartedly. You can't just string together years of little moves and call it rebuilding. That's called keeping yourself in a neverending vortex of suck. The rebuilding year is tearing off the band aid and admitting defeat for a season while you tactifully retreat. If Shans decides to waste our 1st rounder on Bradford, it would doom us to another cycle of crappiness because we will still have no line, an aging linebacker crew, and a glass menagerie at RB.

Trade portis for picks, platoon the RB's, sacrifice next season so we'll have 2 consecutive high 1st rounders, and come back in 2012 guns ablazing.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1423 » by Benjammin » Mon Jan 4, 2010 7:26 pm

Because of Portis's contract, you're not getting any picks for him. The best move with Portis is to cut him during the uncapped year to get him off the books in case the salary cap comes back.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1424 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Mon Jan 4, 2010 9:47 pm

pancakes3 wrote:echoing what everyone else is saying and...

Rebuilding is something you have to do wholeheartedly. You can't just string together years of little moves and call it rebuilding. That's called keeping yourself in a neverending vortex of suck. The rebuilding year is tearing off the band aid and admitting defeat for a season while you tactifully retreat. If Shans decides to waste our 1st rounder on Bradford, it would doom us to another cycle of crappiness because we will still have no line, an aging linebacker crew, and a glass menagerie at RB.

Trade portis for picks, platoon the RB's, sacrifice next season so we'll have 2 consecutive high 1st rounders, and come back in 2012 guns ablazing.


Tough to know how the qb draft will pan out. Bradford could fall to the middle of the 1st... in that case, if the Skins could trade back, pick up a couple of extra picks and still get Bradford, I'd be ok with that.

I agree with your basic premise though. Next year, I'd sacrifice Colt Brennan at QB. Let Bradford learn the offense/let the new, young OL take its lumps. If Colt is good, keep him another year or so. If things work out great, we could have a Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers kind of deal.

My bigger concern is with Shanahan for three basic reasons:
1. Hiring his son as OC seems risky. Think Mike and Al Groh.
2. Shanahan wants too much control over the roster. History has shown again and again that a strong GM needs that authority. Coaches get too sentimental.
3. Shanny's record w/o Elway is mediocre.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1425 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jan 4, 2010 9:52 pm

pancakes3 wrote:That's called keeping yourself in a neverending vortex of suck.


Almost spit out my Sprite on that one.

:lol:
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1426 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jan 4, 2010 9:59 pm

Benjammin wrote:Because of Portis's contract, you're not getting any picks for him. The best move with Portis is to cut him during the uncapped year to get him off the books in case the salary cap comes back.


:nod:

The only vets you can probably get some level of pick(s) for are Moss, Cooley, and Landry. (Might have been able to add Betts to that list if he wasn't injured.) If they can get a couple of 3rd and also a couple of 4th rounders for that trio I'd be happy.

Here's a site listing the picks they have as of right now:

http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/4/20/8430 ... racker-for
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1427 » by Wizards2Lottery » Tue Jan 5, 2010 2:15 am

Nobody is going to trade for Moss or give us a worthwhile pick. It's in our best interest to keep him. I'd rather have him play the slot next year and be the primary punt returner.

The only players on this team who have trade value are Davis, Cooley and Landry. I'm open to trading Cooley or Davis as long as we can get a high 2nd round pick. We need to keep Landry because I think this year was just an anomaly. Trading him would only create a big hole on the team.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1428 » by lupin » Tue Jan 5, 2010 1:09 pm

Portis: I don't know why everyone wants to chuck him in the garbage. His money is guaranteed, cap or no cap. The season won't suddenly go from Uncapped to Capped half-way through. They'll know what it will be by March. More importantly, the Redskins are going to have a strong coach in Shanahan (likely). It will be quite simple to lay down the law to Portis - you practice or you don't play. You mouth off too much, you get cut. He gets paid either way but at least the 'Skins can try to tap into the remaining potential. The Fill-Ins weren't that good at RB - I really don't understand why people were so hot and bothered by the 2.7 YPC Ganther/Mason combo, and Betts is too injury prone.

All of the above doesn't preclude drafting a RB as a (eventual) replacement or spending more effort on upgrading, but I don't think Portis is any worse than the OLine in front of him. And last year they sucked. He did manage almost 1500 yards just the season before.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1429 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 5, 2010 1:56 pm

While his best days are behind him, I agree with Lupin that there isn't much point in getting rid of Portis for its own sake. Perhaps Portis can take off some weight this summer and regain a bit of his former burst. Even if he isn't a threat to go 80, I think he can still be effective in Shanahan's system.

I'd guess that the Skins will draft an RB or two late. Shanahan has a great history of getting production out of unheralded RB's: TD, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell. It probably makes sense to draft some cheap talent to develop rather than wasting FA money or a signing bonus on an RB.

That said, I still expect the Skins to make a run for Reggie Bush, who will be cut this summer. We desperately need a playmaker in the return game and an explosive change of pace/ third down back. Bush fits that bill and he'd probably sell a jersey or two. I hear our owner may have an affinity for high-profile guys ;-)
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1430 » by TheSecretWeapon » Tue Jan 5, 2010 2:34 pm

The reason to dump Portis in an uncapped year is that it gets the team out of the guaranteed money right away instead of waiting and having to take a future cap hit when his production REALLY drops off or he further breaks down physically. Clinton will be 29 next season, and he has a lot of carries on the odometer. Running backs at his age are far more likely to experience a sharp drop in production and/or health than they are to regain their speed and quickness and have a great season.

Rather than hoping Portis drops weight, regains his burst and has a change of attitude under a new regime, I'd rather let him go sooner and bring in someone new.

Also, wasn't it Shanahan who traded Portis to DC? Maybe there was a reason for that (beyond being able to fleece the Skins for Champ Baily AND a 2nd round pick).
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1431 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 5, 2010 2:40 pm

All good points, TSW.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1432 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jan 5, 2010 2:54 pm

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:Nobody is going to trade for Moss or give us a worthwhile pick. It's in our best interest to keep him. I'd rather have him play the slot next year and be the primary punt returner.


Santana would NEVER go for that. Besides, we don't have two other guys who are at least as good to be the primary two receivers.

I absolutely think we could get a third rounder for him from a contending team in an uncapped year. By the time this team is good again, Moss will winding his career down. Why not use his value now to get a pick we can use on a guy to be part of the rebuilding process?
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1433 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Jan 5, 2010 3:01 pm

fishercob wrote:
I'd guess that the Skins will draft an RB or two late. Shanahan has a great history of getting production out of unheralded RB's: TD, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell.



I would add one name to that list: Clinton Portis.

The fact that Shanny's cut blocking system made stars out of everyone should have been made the skins cautious. Portis had a decent run here... but we overpaid.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1434 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 5, 2010 3:09 pm

Portis wasn't unheralded. He was a high second round pick if memory serves. Those other guys were all relative nobodies.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1435 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 5, 2010 3:10 pm

lupin wrote:Portis: I don't know why everyone wants to chuck him in the garbage. His money is guaranteed, cap or no cap. The season won't suddenly go from Uncapped to Capped half-way through. They'll know what it will be by March. More importantly, the Redskins are going to have a strong coach in Shanahan (likely). It will be quite simple to lay down the law to Portis - you practice or you don't play. You mouth off too much, you get cut. He gets paid either way but at least the 'Skins can try to tap into the remaining potential. The Fill-Ins weren't that good at RB - I really don't understand why people were so hot and bothered by the 2.7 YPC Ganther/Mason combo, and Betts is too injury prone.

All of the above doesn't preclude drafting a RB as a (eventual) replacement or spending more effort on upgrading, but I don't think Portis is any worse than the OLine in front of him. And last year they sucked. He did manage almost 1500 yards just the season before.

I'm piling on, but his money is NOT guaranteed. His 2010 salary is scheduled to be $7.191 million - non-guaranteed. And if they kept him in 2010, they'd still have $8.319 mil of unamortized bonus to recognize on caps after 2010. If they cut him before the 2010 season, all of that goes away. http://www.adavidmooreorgans.com/pcinoz ... Detail.htm

I do agree with you that he's probably got something left - and he was hurt by injuries and a poor O-line. But they absolutely have to cut him if it's an uncapped year.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1436 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 5, 2010 3:18 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
fishercob wrote:
I'd guess that the Skins will draft an RB or two late. Shanahan has a great history of getting production out of unheralded RB's: TD, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell.



I would add one name to that list: Clinton Portis.

The fact that Shanny's cut blocking system made stars out of everyone should have been made the skins cautious. Portis had a decent run here... but we overpaid.

The Skins did over-pay - but not by much. The 2nd round pick they gave up was for a RB (whose name escapes me - Bell?) who looked good at times - but pretty much flopped. Then again, they might have used the pick more wisely than Denver did. Champ Bailey's clearly a quality player - but hugely overrated. Otherwise, he wouldn't get burned EVERY single game I've watched Denver play since the trade.

I guess the question is - do the Skins have the O-line personnel to play Shanny's zone blocking system (much less any system)? Probably not - by a long shot. I think we're looking at a multi-year rebuilding process.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1437 » by doclinkin » Tue Jan 5, 2010 3:23 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:Also, wasn't it Shanahan who traded Portis to DC? Maybe there was a reason for that (beyond being able to fleece the Skins for Champ Baily AND a 2nd round pick).


The reason was that Shanny's team and system was consistently able to get quality production out of a platoon of lesser backs, late picks and no-names. If he has any say I'm not sure they'll go with a big name back before they try to rebuild the O-line with the kind of smart fast (occasionally undersized) linemen he likes.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1438 » by Rafael122 » Tue Jan 5, 2010 3:34 pm

I posted this idea on another board but my dream offseason would be to sign Jared Gaither from the Ravens. Dude is a BEAST. He can play left or right tackle. Sign him, draft Okung, and you've got your bookend tackles for at least the next 5 years. On top of that, you have Dockery and Rabach coming back, and that is a very strong offensive line.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1439 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 5, 2010 4:04 pm

Rafael122 wrote:I posted this idea on another board but my dream offseason would be to sign Jared Gaither from the Ravens. Dude is a BEAST. He can play left or right tackle. Sign him, draft Okung, and you've got your bookend tackles for at least the next 5 years. On top of that, you have Dockery and Rabach coming back, and that is a very strong offensive line.

Definitely draft Okung. Not only is he a really good tackle - he's got zone-blocking experience. Gaither - I still haven't figured out why the Skins and every other team let him go in the supplemental draft a few years ago. But at his size, I'm not sure he'd fit Shanny's system - that utilizes smaller quick linemen. Dockery - also a bad fit.
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Re: Hail To The Redskins 

Post#1440 » by Wizards2Lottery » Tue Jan 5, 2010 5:37 pm

We have Anthony Aldridge on the practice squad who apparently is a huge Shanahan favorite. Shanahan called him the fastest player he's ever seen and apparently he was tearing it up for the Broncos in practice and was going to be a primary back there before he had season ending injuries. I think he's going to be in the mix next year as a RB by committee player.

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