Luke Walton and the bench

[milesfides]

It's just health.

Luke has been playing hurt all year, and for a guy who's never been physically talented, that really limits his game.

Walton will be fine when he's back to full health. He knows how to play the game. Considering our numerous offensive options, he's a great glue guy.

He's injury-prone. Maybe will be for his entire career. Definitely needs to take up yoga, like Farmar said.

He should also try to keep losing weight, adding quickness, and working on his shot.

[Kreuk]

now that we have serious talent on this team (and rad is finally starting to produce), walton needs to spend his summers working on his game/ conditioning rather than dirt-bike riding and hanging out at manhattan beach all day.

[Erik Eleven]

I am kind of anoyed with all the name calling Luke has been getting. he has been playing hurt so yeah he is not playing up to expectations, but give him some time and he will come around. Radman did so will Luke. patience.

If he doesn't come around within proper time limits, I'm sure they will look to deal him next fall.

[Kreuk]

frankly, im sick of the "player X is hurt and that's why he's playing poorly" talk... if a player is injured, he should not be playing. period. a hurt player should heal and then come back at full strength. until then he is a liability for the team. it's not like this team is so lacking in depth that walton can't sit some games out and recover.

[milesfides]

Actually, until Radmanovic suddenly became available, we were lacking in depth, which forced Walton to play through his injuries.

After Ariza was injured, Walton was forced to play hurt. He had a hip pointer that was apparently very painful. But Walton gutted it out, simply because we just didn't have anybody else, including Radmanovic, who wasn't ready until a few games ago.

The larger issue? It was reported that Walton has bone spurs in his ankle, and the stiffness in his ankle probably explains why he sprained his ankle at least two or three times this season. It's a recurring, legitimate health concern that is affecting his game and his playing time. He's just not moving well, like he was last year.

As mentioned in this thread, Phil Jackson himself described the deal with Luke, and is keeping an eye on his health and minutes.

[Erik Eleven]

frankly, im sick of the "player X is hurt and that's why he's playing poorly" talk... if a player is injured, he should not be playing. period.

Frankly, coming from you, that's a surprisingly naive statement, if I may. Every team in the league have injured role players playing games for them. Obviously, the coaching staffs around the league wouldn't let them play unless they felt strongly that it was the best alternative, all things considered. Only they know what all the things to consider are. I don't. You don't. We simply have to buck up and trust that Phil knows better than we do.

I also don't see how bringing up the fact that he's injured could be a negative thing. To me, it's a sign of intelligence, in that it suggests that the poster is open to shades of grey

[Trojans5]

Im a huge Luke Walton fan and i really doubt they are gonna trade him

[Kreuk]

I recollect that Luke went from "Puke" to sixth man of the year candidate in 1.5 years to yeast-in-bread/ one of the most important players on this team etc etc etc... I've heard it all. Luke's bandwagon was second only to kobe's.

And then Luke went Casper on us. I haven't seen this guy play well, healthy or not dating back to before the playoffs last year... And when he plays like crap, this is what I hear... He's injured. He's injured He's injured. Has he been injured for the last year or what? Did he get injured when we switched back to the old ball?

I thought he was going to bury Radman on the bench. I thought he was going to bury Ariza on the bench. The only thing Luke has been burying on the bench is himself.

You can blame his injuries or whatever you want. I blame the fact that his skillset is pretty much useless because of the other players we acquired. Odom can pass well. Bynum can pass well. Gasol can pass well. We have a couple bonafide PGs that can pass well. Add this to the fact that he's been making TERRIBLE decisions lately. Injured or not, his decision-making is inexcusable.

Luke is a below average rebounder, defender, shooter, etc. I honestly dont know what the guy can contribute to this team even "if" at "full health". IMHO Walton is entering Chris Mihm territory.

[milesfides]

I think you need to look very deeply into a concept called "causation." Injury is a major factor in a player's performance. I'm not sure I have to explain myself further - basketball is a physical sport. Moreover, why wouldn't injuries cause poor decision-making? Basketball is a game that relies heavily upon confidence, which in turn is a mental issue, which can affect another mental aspect of the game, decision-making. The lack of confidence in one's body could cause one to do something one might not usually do. For example, Walton myraid of injuries hasn't given him the proper lift on his shots. It's noticeably apparent. It could in turn cause the lack of confidence in his shot, which could cause Walton to do something like pass up a last second shot to give the ball back to Kobe with no time left on the clock. Bad decision, yes. Related to his health? Yes.

Should Walton not be playing? Probably not, but again, we had a shortage of players.

Also, a player's current struggles doesn't necessarily mean Walton has suddenly become a crappy player.

And that's an easy fallacy a poster could make. For example, Farmar's struggling. We could say he sucks. Well, he's sucking right now, but we'll probably chalk it up to momentary inconsistency. We do know he's a good guard with scoring talent.

So it comes back to Walton. Walton was called the "yeast" of his team, by his coach no less. Walton is widely regarded as one of the most intelligent players in the game, and one of the best passing forwards in the league. He has no remarkable set of physical skills, he has no remarkable scoring talent, or rebounding, or defense. But he never did. Attacking him for that is ignorance of him as a player. He's just a player who knows how to play the game, who makes his teammates better.

Yes, he's struggling. Simultaneously, he's been battling some injuries. Is it a coincidence? Just an excuse?

At some point, logic is required to make that certain connection, especially when said player was noticeably hobbling at various points of the season.

That's the problem with always riding high on bandwagons and jumping off when things get a little rocky. Players are great or they suck, game-to-game. But it feels good to always be right - for the moment.

However, if one's opinions were grounded in knowledge, one would never dismiss the context of a situation. That's what we call "understanding." Which might lead to some more interesting, insightful comments.

[crackjack]

not many teams out there have a need for luke's skill set.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Walton is the type of player that everyone would love to have in their rotation. Maybe not as a starter, but at least as a sixth man.

[Sofa King]

Luke had good value... until he signed that contract and his production went lower and now its bordering as mediocre value.

I remember when Luke had decent range, is an intelligent player keeping the offense moving, and made good passes. He was a key player and a starter for the Lakers.

Now he's up and down with decent games where he scores 12 points to producing nothing. Makes mistakes. Doesn't have a consistent shot.

You got players like Vlad and Sasha playing better ball right now. That wasn't the case last season. If Ariza wasn't injured by Odom, I think Ariza would be playing 15 minutes a game at the very least.

[Erik Eleven]

Expecting every single player to play at their top capacity at all times, 82 games a year, year in, year out is unrealistic. Every single playe will eventually hit a slump.

Instead of shooting our own players down the second they get in a slump, shouldn't we be backing him, supporting him as opposed to calling his name for trade? Where's the loyalty?

I agree that Luke might be our most tradeable player once Ariza gets back, but he just signed a multi year deal with us. I don't think management will let him go as light-heartedly as fans suggest.

[Sofa King]

^That's understandable EE. With Walton's situation, I can understand not trading him since he's part of the team's chemistry, and the team is doing well right now. Unless its for a significant impact player, then no I wouldn't trade Walton before the deadline.

In a similar situation where you have a team sign a player to a multi-year deal is Vince Carter and the Nets. Unlike the Lakers where the Nets are sucking it up and Vince isn't the player producing the way he should, I can see the Nets shopping Vince around. There's loyalty as long as the team is doing well. When the team is stinking it up, what loyalty.

But after this season, the Lakers have to deal with some luxury tax issues. It comes down to resigning key players like Ronny, Ariza, etc. and making room for them. If Walton doesn't produce this season, I won't be surprise to see him being shopped around.

[That Nicka]

Expecting every single player to play at their top capacity at all times, 82 games a year, year in, year out is unrealistic. Every single playe will eventually hit a slump.

Instead of shooting our own players down the second they get in a slump, shouldn't we be backing him, supporting him as opposed to calling his name for trade? Where's the loyalty?

I agree that Luke might be our most tradeable player once Ariza gets back, but he just signed a multi year deal with us. I don't think management will let him go as light-heartedly as fans suggest.

I personally dont want him traded, like i said, he is one of my favorite players in the entire league... I just think he is MUCH better when he starts... I didnt know he was as injured as miles pointed out, but apparently, its more serious than I thought

[Lakerholic44]

For example, Walton myraid of injuries hasn't given him the proper lift on his shots. It's noticeably apparent. It could in turn cause the lack of confidence in his shot, which could cause Walton to do something like pass up a last second shot to give the ball back to Kobe with no time left on the clock. Bad decision, yes. Related to his health? Yes.

Should Walton not be playing? Probably not, but again, we had a shortage of players.

I agree that Walton at least manned up and played hurt. I also agree that being hurt will have an effect on your shot, lateral movement, etc. etc.

However, what I don't agree with, is that if Walton is hurt and playing, then he shouldn't be shooting so much from the outside and trying to post up and shoot over defenders...that usually end up in blocked shots. What he should be doing, if he indeed is playing hurt, is look to move the ball to open ballers from the post that are healthier and better shooters. Instead of taking the trifectas that he likes to take, step in inside the arc to give himself a better chance of making his jumpers. Simple concepts, IMO, if playing hurt. Already, outside shooting is not his strength (which I thought it would be early in the 06-07 season...but that was a mirage, I guess), so he should wok on his midrange jumpers and drives if the threes are not working. IMO, in general, not just Luke, too man NBA ballers fall in love with the three.

Anyhow, Luke had a solid game yesterday. He missed a three early, and after that he went away from it instead of staying with it. He made one later, but in the interim he moved well without the ball and made sharp and solid passes. Luke sometimes gets caught up with trying to making the dazzling pass when making sharp and timely passes is truly what he's good at. Also, I tried to see if Luke was hobbling yesterday, but he wasn't. Maybe he had a good day yesterday in terms of health, but I don't see the limping and such that everyone else is seeing.

Btw, it's interesting to note that nobody has really touched on the other ballers off the bench. Farmar has not played the same in some time now, and he had an okay game yesterday, but I still expect a bit more from him. Hopefully, like I said earlier, he's not a comfort zone with the departure of Javaris. Turiaf is still pressing too much and although I would like to see PJ play him some minutes next to Gasol, when Turiaf is in there he's struggling.

[Lakerholic44]

But after this season, the Lakers have to deal with some luxury tax issues. It comes down to resigning key players like Ronny, Ariza, etc. and making room for them. If Walton doesn't produce this season, I won't be surprise to see him being shopped around.

Exactly. That's the bottom line with Luke. He needs to step it up from here on out or he's going to get shipped the way Cookie did. He's a role player, IMO, and not a starter. He's a glue, that when things go right, he plays well. However, he doesn't have the moxie to play well when things don't go right for the team. There are plenty of glue guys in the league or in college that can get paid less. Also, if comes down to keeping an athletic Ariza with more upside than Luke, then I'm for getting rid of Luke in order to retain Ariza.

[milesfides]

However, what I don't agree with, is that if Walton is hurt and playing, then he shouldn't be shooting so much from the outside and trying to post up and shoot over defenders...that usually end up in blocked shots. What he should be doing, if he indeed is playing hurt, is look to move the ball to open ballers from the post that are healthier and better shooters. Instead of taking the trifectas that he likes to take, step in inside the arc to give himself a better chance of making his jumpers. Simple concepts, IMO, if playing hurt. Already, outside shooting is not his strength (which I thought it would be early in the 06-07 season...but that was a mirage, I guess), so he should wok on his midrange jumpers and drives if the threes are not working. IMO, in general, not just Luke, too man NBA ballers fall in love with the three.

First of all, Luke hasn't "fallen in love with the three." The guy averages 1.3 attempts a game. In the past 8 games that he's played, he hasn't taken more than 2 in a game. That's hardly falling in love with the three. I still see Luke going inside for a couple post moves a game - I guess I'm the only one seeing it. I suppose his 1.3 3-point attempts are far more salient?

Second, Luke is the fifth best 3-point shooter on our team, just ahead of Kobe. He's shooting it 36% this year. When he's open, he has to take that shot. His coach and his teammates are expecting him to take the shot.

If you've watched our games, you would see that the ball movement and the timing requires a player to take that three. When a player hesitates, he breaks the offense, creates confusion, causes the post man to commit 3-second violations, etc.

Against good defensive teams, it's not easy to take a step in and take a closer shot. Many times the ball will be swung around to the man in the corner, for a catch-and-shoot. He has about one second to gather himself and take that open shot. A defender is running at him. He doesn't have the luxury of taking a step closer. He has to take that corner three-point shot, it's part of the offense.