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Josh Smith

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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#81 » by Deity Allah » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:05 pm

Kobay wrote:
That Nicka wrote::rofl: I just heard on ESPNews, Josh Smith wants 12-13 mil a year... please GTFO Mr. Smith
Thas not that expensive for a guy that actually is aggressive on both ends of th floor. He's already better than lamar at age 22.


C'mon now, don't start saying anything :lol: What can he do better than Lamar other than Dunk and Block shots from the weak side? And this question is being posed by a Josh Smith fan. At age 22 Odom played 29 games due to injury and only 49 the next year due to injury, as well as played the three while with the Clippers and not the 4 during that time.

Here are Odom's numbers at age 24 2003-2004 season (his first season at the 4) the same position Josh Smith plays

(Games) 80 (Minutes) 37:30 (FG%) 43% (3pt%) 29.8% (FT%) 74.2 (Boards) 9.7 (Assist) 4.1 (Turnovers) 3.0 (Steals) 1.1 (Blocks) 0.9 (Points) 17.1

Smith in 2007-2008 season Playing the "Four" in 2007-2008

(Games) 81 (Minutes) 35:30 (FG%) 45.7 % (3pt%) 25.3% (FT%) 71.0 (Boards) 8.2 (Assit) 3.4 (Turnovers)3.0 (Steals) 1.5 (Blocks) 2.8 (Points) 17.2

Looks pretty equal to me. and they both averaged 14 FGA's a game.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#82 » by kno » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:07 pm

dcash4 wrote:lol at people complaining about lamar's jumpshot and supposed playoff "choking" and loving smith. have people seen smith's jumper? did they see smith's complete disappearing act in the playoffs?

even lamar and his 40 eFG% on jumpers completely destroys smith's horrible 30 eFG% on jumpers.

holy hell is his hot spot chart disgusting.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

look him up, midrange jumper, starting from the left baseline: 2-23 8.7%, 24-65 36.9%, 14-40 35%, 17-65 26.2%, 11-31 35.5%

wow. i don't care how good of a weakside shot blocker or fast break dunk artist you are, if you can't make a jumper to save your life, u have no business playing sf with gasol/bynum while making boatloads of money. even lamar shoots 43% or better in 4 of the 5 spots.


Thank you. Just goes to show how some spectacular dunks and ESPN highlights seem to not only distort, but enhance a player's overall abilities in some people's eyes.

He's just not what we need. His (not-so) hotspots are horrible.

When your hotspots beyond the paint consist of the following, you should NEVER be considered for a Lakers SF position, no matter how good you can dunk.

1/13 - Above Average
5/13 - Below Average
7/13 - Flat Out Horrible


http://i34.tinypic.com/9zvy36.jpg


Anyone here still want Josh Smith? YiYaoYue maybe? You seemed set on trading for him just hours ago.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#83 » by Deity Allah » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:11 pm

YiYaoYue wrote:
Deity Allah wrote:If Smith moves to the 3 from the 4 with a good PF on that squad, he becomes AK-47. We all have seen what has happened to his game since he was moved from the 4 to the 3. I like Smith. He's actually one of my favorite players in the league, but he doesn't help the spacing issue you guys will have at the 3 position cause his Jimmy is beyond suspect.

Smith for Odom? You guys will take a step back in my eyes, but do it! I'm a hawks fan and would love nothing more for my favorite player in the league to play for my squad, even at the expense of Smooth. You guys think Odom is the reincarnation of Derrick Mckey (Casper) then wait to you guys get your hands on a malcontent Smith when he's not getting the rock :lol:

Smith is a most at 9 million dollar player a year. As a Hawk fan, I would love to keep him, especially with the defection of Childress, but at this point, I honestly just see him taking the QO and becoming unrestricted next off season since we're not going to pony up the bread that he wants. So, since we're going to lose him anyway, might as well be to the Lakers for The Goodz.



But it seems like both sacremento and detroit would love to have josh smith and would trade prince or artest for him. Doesn't that say that he has more value than lamar odom and we should atleast look into a trade for a possible 3-way to get the SF we want in prince or artest? But it seems like atlanta fans don't want odom from what i'm hearing, even if we take their bad contract of claxton and possibly get several low salary young players or draft picks from lakers and the other team involved.


Atlatna fans will be fine with Lamar once he starts to play there. But of course, they are going to miss the highflying highlight reel Smith, but for that reason primarly more than anything else. I think what will hurt the Hawks more so than anything else is losing Childress. Their bench is already horrible as is and to lose a really good 6 man who could play a couple of different positions and play without the ball is going to hurt something serious.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#84 » by hermes » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:19 pm

kno, whats that pic of, can't see it
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#85 » by YiYaoYue » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:20 pm

Kno wrote:
dcash4 wrote:lol at people complaining about lamar's jumpshot and supposed playoff "choking" and loving smith. have people seen smith's jumper? did they see smith's complete disappearing act in the playoffs?

even lamar and his 40 eFG% on jumpers completely destroys smith's horrible 30 eFG% on jumpers.

holy hell is his hot spot chart disgusting.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

look him up, midrange jumper, starting from the left baseline: 2-23 8.7%, 24-65 36.9%, 14-40 35%, 17-65 26.2%, 11-31 35.5%

wow. i don't care how good of a weakside shot blocker or fast break dunk artist you are, if you can't make a jumper to save your life, u have no business playing sf with gasol/bynum while making boatloads of money. even lamar shoots 43% or better in 4 of the 5 spots.


Thank you. Just goes to show how some spectacular dunks and ESPN highlights seem to not only distort, but enhance a player's overall abilities in some people's eyes.

He's just not what we need. His (not-so) hotspots are horrible.

When your hotspots beyond the paint consist of the following, you should NEVER be considered for a Lakers SF position, no matter how good you can dunk.

1/13 - Above Average
5/13 - Below Average
7/13 - Flat Out Horrible

[img]http://i34.tinypic.com/9zvy36.jpg[/img]

Anyone here still want Josh Smith? YiYaoYue maybe? You seemed set on trading for him just hours ago.


I've changed my stance a bit. I think lakers can get prince, artest, wallace, etc if they can convince atlanta to give them josh smith... then its just a matter of finding one of the teams to take josh smith for the SF we want. I just wasn't thinking outside the box before and I think lakers should still pursue josh smith, but also pursue ways to trade him in a 3-way. You've got to be opportunistic to get what you really want and not just stay pat just because a direct trade doesn't yield what you want.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#86 » by kno » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:25 pm

hermes wrote:kno, whats that pic of, can't see it


There you go. I fixed the link.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#87 » by hermes » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:43 pm

boy he isn't a good shooter
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#88 » by wfiles » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:50 pm

Both Josh Smith and Lamar Odom aren't good outside shooters but at least Smith can finish near the basket. How many times have you seen Odom miss easy layups?
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#89 » by dockingsched » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:58 pm

wfiles wrote:Both Josh Smith and Lamar Odom aren't good outside shooters but at least Smith can finish near the basket. How many times have you seen Odom miss easy layups?


you can't just lump them together though. odom is a lot closer to shooting like kobe than he is to josh smith. thats how bad josh smith's jumper is.

anywhoo, looking at the hot spots, lamar is WAY better at shooting in the 4 interior zones too. 62% near the rim, 58%, 45%, 29% in the 3 zones around it. smith? 59% near the rim and an absolutely TERRIBLE 26%, 27%, and 28% in the 3 zones around it.

josh smith is an ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, PUTRID shooter.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#90 » by daddyfivestar » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:10 pm

I am all for being a 3rd to get a true 3 in Artest or Prince - it really all depends on Atl's plans. Do they want a locker room friendly expiring that can help this year in Odom but save $ next, or do they want a longer term 3 in Prince? Do they want to go cheaper with Artest in a swap, chance the issues but get a lock down defender? What's the big picture for Marvin Williams/Horford... are they 3 and 4, 3 and 5, etc?
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#91 » by SPuL » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:05 am

dcash4 wrote:
wfiles wrote:Both Josh Smith and Lamar Odom aren't good outside shooters but at least Smith can finish near the basket. How many times have you seen Odom miss easy layups?


you can't just lump them together though. odom is a lot closer to shooting like kobe than he is to josh smith. thats how bad josh smith's jumper is.

anywhoo, looking at the hot spots, lamar is WAY better at shooting in the 4 interior zones too. 62% near the rim, 58%, 45%, 29% in the 3 zones around it. smith? 59% near the rim and an absolutely TERRIBLE 26%, 27%, and 28% in the 3 zones around it.

josh smith is an ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, PUTRID shooter.

On a team where the only other good scorers are Joe Johnson & Bibby for half a season.

You can't seriously think any player could come to a team with Kobe, Bynum & Pau & not improve their shooting percentage. Be objective
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#92 » by dockingsched » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:43 am

yet somehow childress managed 40 eFG% on jumpers, m. williams managed 41 eFG%, a. johnson managed 44 eFG% on jumpers, a. horford shot 39 eFG% on jumpers, hell, even shelden williams managed 32.7 eFG% on jumpers!. guy is an elite level awful shooter, no other way to put it.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#93 » by milesfides » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:51 am

You'd be surprised at how little that matters.

Rick Fox's percentages weren't helped by playing next to Kobe and Shaq - and all he had to do was spot up at the three.

Playing with Z and Lebron, you'd think Wally Szczerbiak would shoot lights out. Instead, he shot the worst in his career.

Kyle Korver shot slightly poorer from 3-point range in Utah than he did in Philadelphia (although he got way more interior shots due to their princeton-type offense)

And these are great shooters.

You could even apply the same to McGrady - his percentages went down when he played next to Yao. Playing more on the perimeter didn't help his percentages.

On the championship Heat team in 2006, Antoine Walker did shoot above his career averages (although that still didn't make him a good shooter). On the other hand James Posey shot below his career averages.

Bottom line, you can't tell.

But the general rule is this: good shooters usually shoot well regardless of what kind of team they're on.

Poor shooters shoot poorly, regardless of what kind of team they're on.

Josh Smith isn't a good shooter. It's possible that he'll improve, but it's unlikely. If he does, it'll be the first time in his career - he'll literally have to reinvent himself.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#94 » by That Nicka » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:04 am

Just about every player that has played with Kobe has seen their percentages go up.... But Josh Smith is such a bad shooter that he could have a dramatic increase in his percentages and still be a bad shooter.... If Josh Smith played in LA I could see him shooting 46-47% FG and 32-33% from 3
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#95 » by milesfides » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:31 am

The problem isn't whether Josh Smith improves, the problem is whether he can improve enough, in order to avoid being a liability to our triangle offense, which relies on spacing.

Case in point? Luke Walton. Teams don't even defend his shot at all, which is why the ball keeps coming to him - because he's open.

That can really wear on your offense, really disrupt it.

It's the same with Odom. He's not a bad shooter, but when he's put into that role, teams play off him enough to mess up our offense.

The only real successful exception to this has been Dennis Rodman. He overcame this by his incredible ability to rebound. He was so active on the boards, his man had to chase him. And if his man did cheat off him to double MJ, MJ had the luxury of still shooting, knowing Dennis would probably get the rebound if he missed. But Rodman was one of the greatest rebounders in the game, a unique player, an anomaly.

I'm not sure if Josh Smith has an offensive attribute that could sufficiently compensate for his poor shooting.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#96 » by Gek » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:03 am

miles knows his triangle offense and history
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#97 » by kno » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:55 am

milesfides wrote:You'd be surprised at how little that matters.

Rick Fox's percentages weren't helped by playing next to Kobe and Shaq - and all he had to do was spot up at the three.

Playing with Z and Lebron, you'd think Wally Szczerbiak would shoot lights out. Instead, he shot the worst in his career.

Kyle Korver shot slightly poorer from 3-point range in Utah than he did in Philadelphia (although he got way more interior shots due to their princeton-type offense)

And these are great shooters.

You could even apply the same to McGrady - his percentages went down when he played next to Yao. Playing more on the perimeter didn't help his percentages.

On the championship Heat team in 2006, Antoine Walker did shoot above his career averages (although that still didn't make him a good shooter). On the other hand James Posey shot below his career averages.

Bottom line, you can't tell.

But the general rule is this: good shooters usually shoot well regardless of what kind of team they're on.

Poor shooters shoot poorly, regardless of what kind of team they're on.

Josh Smith isn't a good shooter. It's possible that he'll improve, but it's unlikely. If he does, it'll be the first time in his career - he'll literally have to reinvent himself.


Great post Miles, once again.

However anyone tries to twist it, Josh Smith, albeit one of the most athletic players thus league has ever seen and a great individual player in his own right, just wont workout for this team.


He has many positives he can bring to a team. Thing is, his negatives are exactly the qualities Lakers are looking to improve on.

I wouldve LOVED to get this guy 2-3 years ago, but the current Lakers structure just doesnt call for his services.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#98 » by milesfides » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:25 am

Kno wrote:
I wouldve LOVED to get this guy 2-3 years ago, but the current Lakers structure just doesnt call for his services.


That's pretty much how I feel, yeah. Would upgrading our defense at SF be worth compromising our offense?

I think the answer lies in Phil Jackson. I disagree with his decision to play Radmanovic so much, but it's obvious Phil thought his lack of defense was the lesser of two evils.
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Re: Josh Smith 

Post#99 » by Erik Eleven » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:25 pm

Lamar rebounding and leading the break at 6'10" is an asset that PJ values dearly. We don't need more big-man-athleticism, not as badly as we need tough defense/great shooting at the three. I don't think it'll happen.

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