ImageImageImageImageImage

GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS

Moderators: Kilroy, Danny Darko, TyCobb

User avatar
iamworthy
RealGM
Posts: 20,137
And1: 8,916
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Location: Ring City!!!
   

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#141 » by iamworthy » Sun Nov 2, 2008 10:48 pm

88' Draft Pick wrote:did anyone notice that Iverson only played 25 minutes? I wonder whats up with that. I read he left the locker room without speaking to reporters. Somethings going on up there in Denver.



Iverson played 37 minutes. I dont know where you got 25 minutes from. I checked the boxscore on BSPN.
Image
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#142 » by Erik Eleven » Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:47 am

semi-sentient wrote:Oh, and what the hell is up with the scheduling? One game next week? Gay.


Yeah, but I'm going to it. Very good seats, too, I hear. Can't wait to watch some live show-time butt whooping up close.
User avatar
Dr Aki
RealGM
Posts: 35,682
And1: 31,910
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
   

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#143 » by Dr Aki » Mon Nov 3, 2008 7:16 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:
dcash4 wrote:with another 3, trevor is now 5 for 6 from downtown this year. 5 is his career high for a season. i don't know if this is just a hot streak, but his improvement is nothing short of amazing right now. next up, tying his career total prior to this year (9 made 3's)


I'm hoping this is a sign of actual improvement rather than a psuedo hot streak like the one Walton was on a few years back.

2 words: composite ball

unless they change the ball again, ariza's not going to have as much adjusting as walton did...hopefully
Image
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#144 » by Erik Eleven » Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:36 am

^ Yup. Both Luke and Odom shot well with the composite ball, but as soon as they switched back to the original ball, the "mojo" was gone for both of them. It's strange, both had a better arch and spin with the composite ball.
User avatar
milesfides
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,012
And1: 1,449
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#145 » by milesfides » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:05 am

Great to see Kobe pull us out of this one. Man, is that guy deus ex machina or what? Maybe he can't take over when a great defensive team is focused solely on taking him out, but he just knocked the Nuggets out with that fourth quarter blitz. Best closer in the game.

Farmar's still not ready. He's still not reading the game right. He's always going full speed, and he's always looking to score. He needs to use his teammates better, read the floor.

Radmanovic - GOOD LORD can he pass up ONE shot? Every time he gets the ball it goes up. Damn!

Ariza - this guy should start right now. If he's hitting his threes - what point is there in having Radmanovic start over him?

Bynum...I'm disappointed, what can I say. He had way too much trouble with Nene, it reminded me of the trouble he had against Perkins.

Something's going on with Iverson. Melo was rusty.

Birdman Chris Anderson was actually a great pickup! He was doing a great job protecting the basket.

Kenyon Martin and Anthony Carter stepped up.

Our team had a bit of a letdown, on both sides of the floor I thought. We couldn't shoot any worse, wow.

But we still won, and it's a good sign that we can win ugly (did a great job on the boards).
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
Cboywhitey
Sophomore
Posts: 177
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 08, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#146 » by Cboywhitey » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:19 pm

^ Agree with everything in the previous post except for the Ariza starting bit.

I don't see why so many people want Ariza to start. He is a great change of pace player. A good slasher and energy guy. Guys like him usually come off the bench. Examine most teams in the league. This is how most guys of his nature are used. His skill set fits our second unit better than our first and the reverse is true for Vlade. Vlade fits our first unit better than our second. If you look at our most efficient line ups last year Vlade is involved in most units. And a consistent 3 man group in most of the top five man line ups included bryant fisher and vlade. Vlade is highly undervalued on this forum. His off the court injuries and goofy nature seem to persuade the way people see his game. Phil has repeatedly praised vlade starting last season and has been very high on him all preseason long.

I understand Ariza gets take aways at a high clip. But that does not mean he is a great defender. People need to pay more attention to what he does when he's not dashing into a passing lane (A lot of the time getting out of position to do it.) I am 100 percent sure that in the first 3 games of the season Vlade is far superior on the defensive end. I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to basketball. I watch every game a couple times. I recommend to anybody to watch games more than once. Once emotion of the first time experience of the game is removed I find I see the game differently. Radman has been among our best defenders these past 3 games. He's been key in our help rotation. Last night he was solid. I'm not just saying that because carmello had a hard time. Vlade was everywhere! He had a couple breakdowns but that is going to happen when you realize just how many defensive sequences he was involved in. The guy seriously was everywhere.

I have to agree with PJ's assessment of Arizas defense. He isn't a great defender he just has good instincts with passing lanes. I think phil pretty much stopped short of saying that is his only defense.

If you have the denver game recorded go back and watch it. Compare Vlade to Ariza. Watch how active vlade is in help defense. How he forces players to the right spots. He fills the space needed while Ariza stays out of the way and repeatedly takes the passing lane away looking to intercept the pass instead of taking away the lane. The cornerstone of all defense is stop the ball first. There were two almost back to back fast breaks leading to 4 points for denver because Ariza tried to fill a passing lane in transition instead of sprint back and assume position. His sidekick farmar helped out as well by jogging back only sprinting once he was beat by about 15 feet. When Ariza came in denver started running layup drills. I'm sure the coaching staff pointed out Arizas tendency to play the passing lane instead of filling the paint. I saw several drives on the side in which Ariza was the help defender. It was a bit too obvious not to have been a coaching strategy. It wasn't all on him though. Denver was playing good team ball and Farmar was playing poor help D as well.

I'm high on Ariza. I really am. But honestly he isn't playing at the same level as Vlade right now and that is 100 percent based on defense.

EDIT: And I have to add I never thought I'd say vlade deserves the starting job based on his defensive play. As I was writing this post I felt like I was in an alternate universe of some sort.
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#147 » by Erik Eleven » Mon Nov 3, 2008 6:09 pm

Good posts, miles and Cboywhitey.

Come December, Bynum will start to dominate. I can smell it. He just needs to get back into the rhythm he was in before the injury. Given he's only been in NBA game rhythm for a short stretch in the past, it'll take a little longer for him to find back than it does a more experienced player. Once he gets back into rhythm and stops thinking too much, he'll soon be the beast we saw last January. Watch out when that happens.

Ariza's man defense could and should be improved upon. His positional defense is excellent. His reading the passing lanes is close to perfect. Rarely does he take a risky gamble. He needs to keep working on that shot in order to keep it reliable, and keep improving on that hardnosed lock down man defense, where right now, Radmanovic is actually doing a better job. Shocking, to say the least.

Radmanovic is like a new player. I love his newfound love for defense. But since that type of defense is a mindset first and foremost, I still have my doubts about the space cadet being able to focus and believe for 82 games. He still has to prove that he can body up everyone from LBJ to Paul Pierce. Three games of tough defense is good, but I want to see 79 more games of consistency and never letting up. Then I'll cheer.

To use Phil's words, Fisher is like a solid block. Very few mistakes, good sense of momentum swings and a strong feel for the pivotal moments in games. Great leadership and decision making so far. I'm not surprised at all.

Gasol is also like a solid block. Given that Bynum blooms again soon, he'll be the perfect PF to play alongside Bynum, although he's a perfectly legit big man in his own right. What a luxury to have a guy like him on our team. He's just quietly putting up 13-10 or similar every night, without fuzz.

Odom is thriving off the bench. Since he got here I've been hoping he'll be allowed to play the style he ran in Miami. Making him a sixth man was a great move by Phil because it lets Odom be himself. The fact that he's a sixth man on our team speaks volumes for our depth. Passion on every possession, Lamar!

Farmar is once again showing improvement. He still has hurdles to clear as far as his decision making. Inside outside should be drilled into his head. Although the speed of the second unit is its strength, Farmar must recognize when it's time to run the half court and slow down the pace a bit. He'll soon be a starter in this league, but not just yet. He's the perfect player to run the fast paced bench mob's style of ball, but he needs to learn how to recognize when it's wrong to do that.

Sasha will get back into the swing of things as he gets healthy. He, too, needs to keep working on his shot (if he wants to be regarded the best shooter ever to lace them up) and his man defense, just like Ariza. Too often, Sasha picks up cheap fouls, and it breaks the momentum/pace for the second unit. Body up, deny ball movement, and let the opponent's shot clock work for you. A 24 second violation is more morally depleting than a reach-in steal. It affects the whole team and their coaching staff, not just the one player. Don't reach in and gamble so often. And, consider running a little inside outside instead of shooting everytime.

Powell just needs to see some more floor time, and he'll be a better version of Turiaf. I have great hopes for his contributions this season. I love how he goes after everything off the boards like it's his to lose. And, let's see that little 15 footer more often. It's money. He's calm and collected at all times. I love that.

Mbenga is our better version of Mark Madsen — a bruiser, banger, energy guy. I'm so glad they re-signed him because I love to say "Silent M time". How can you not root for the guy? He has some serious room for improvement, too. He hasn't played all that much, despite his age.

Mihm is easing back into nice looking form. He's still a very potent scorer and his defense is looking better than I remember it being when he was playing his best. There seems to be a newfound grit and hustle. Maybe he's letting out all that frustration.

Luke. Well, like everyone else I loved him that year when he was "yeast in bread", but this is a different team. He has to play amazing defense and simprove his shot in order to steal minutes from Radman, Ariza and Odom. Again, him being our eleventh man off the bench speaks for scary roster depth. Let's just hope he'll get enough minutes throughout the season, so he can get back into the flow of things.

Kobe. The best closer in the game. One of the best defenders in the game. One of the best to have ever played the game. He's still easing into the season, but we can still rest easy, knowing that if all goes to hell in a game, we're still in it. Kobe will take over when it's needed, and we all know what he can accomplish single handedly. Then comes playoffs time, I think we'll see him more at the three, where he's the deadliest.

Sun Yue. Who?

Let's bring on Zo sometime in December and we have a shot at being more physical than the Celtics.

Come trade deadline, it'll be interesting to see what other teams' players want out of their current situation. I'm all for extending Odom at a reasonable price, but if there is a star defensive SF that wants out at that time, Odom's expiring can become extremely valuable. Although, I'm not so sure I want to tamper with the second unit. They look like they can make a great impact next season.

Yeah, I often watch the games twice, too. It's a good way to better understand what goes on defensively and off the ball. You notice much clearer how small, fundamental, seemingly insignificant situational mistakes can lead to consecutive baskets by the opponent, in a hurry. Plus, it's fun to pay extra attention to how and why and when the momentum swings back and forth.

Go Lakers!
Sedale Threatt
RealGM
Posts: 50,857
And1: 44,907
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#148 » by Sedale Threatt » Mon Nov 3, 2008 8:26 pm

Akiho wrote:2 words: composite ball

unless they change the ball again, ariza's not going to have as much adjusting as walton did...hopefully


Erik Eleven wrote:^ Yup. Both Luke and Odom shot well with the composite ball, but as soon as they switched back to the original ball, the "mojo" was gone for both of them. It's strange, both had a better arch and spin with the composite ball.


Hmmm, I have to wonder if that wasn't merely a coincidence or not. While I know what it feels like to shoot with a ball you're comfortable as opposed to one you're not, I can't imagine it would have made such a substantial difference. Especially with those two -- they can't shoot for **** regardless. I could be wrong.
User avatar
dockingsched
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 56,660
And1: 23,966
Joined: Aug 02, 2005
     

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#149 » by dockingsched » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:11 pm

2006-2007 season:

november -december: composite ball
january - february - march - april: back to leather ball

luke walton
nov: 62.5%
dec: 30.4%
jan: 25.9%
feb: out all month
mar: 42.9%
apr: 32.1%

i don't know if there is much to the composite ball thing with him. i mean, he sucked in december with the composite ball after an ungodly november. he sucked in january too with the leather ball, but shot over 42% in march. looks like just a bunch of hot and cold streaks, probably related to injuries that i don't specifically recall, more so than the ball change.

as far as lamar odom, whoever mentioned him has their yrs mixed up. he shot over 37% from 3 the yr before the composite ball, and shot about 30% the yr with the composite ball. he was basically the same inconsistent shooter all season that yr.
"We must try not to sink beneath our anguish, Harry, but battle on." - Dumbledore
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#150 » by Erik Eleven » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:24 pm

Hmmm. I thought I remembered with clarity that Lamar was making his free throws and jumpers with grace during the composite ball stretch. As far as Luke goes, I must have just equalled his November percentage with him favoring the new ball. Selective perception, I guess. Thanks for setting me straight. Although, I am interested in knowing Lamar's FT% whith the composite ball.
User avatar
dockingsched
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 56,660
And1: 23,966
Joined: Aug 02, 2005
     

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#151 » by dockingsched » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:27 pm

lamar's free throw percentage has been 69.5, 69.0, 70.0, and 69.8 the last four yrs, 69.0 being the yr of the composite ball.

his jump shot eFG% according to 82games.com was 40.0% last yr. it was 39.6% the yr before that (the yr of the composite ball), and it was 41.6% the yr before that.



ha, and people like to call him inconsistent. look at those %'s!! :lol:
"We must try not to sink beneath our anguish, Harry, but battle on." - Dumbledore
TyCobb
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 38,250
And1: 9,955
Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Location: Pitcher's Mound
     

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#152 » by TyCobb » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:30 pm

One thing I can't stand with Fisher is him taking pull up threes or long twos with more than 20 seconds left on the clock.
Read more, learn more, change your posts.
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#153 » by Erik Eleven » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:30 pm

Then I must have a strong imagination. What else is new? Thanks, DC.
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#154 » by Erik Eleven » Mon Nov 3, 2008 9:33 pm

TyCobb wrote:One thing I can't stand with Fisher is him taking pull up threes or long twos with more than 20 seconds left in the offense.


Agreed. That, and his sometimes clumsy driving to the hoop is what will speed up Farmar's promotion to the starting line-up. Besides that, Fisher is pretty damn rock solid, though. Maybe at the end of this season, we'll see a changing of the guards. Pardon the cheap pun.
Cboywhitey
Sophomore
Posts: 177
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 08, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#155 » by Cboywhitey » Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:50 am

I thought I read that Phil and the coaching staff worked on those quick pull up jumpers from the guard spot. The article said the coaching staff feels as though having bynum and pau down low will force defenses to run back into the low post giving fisher and farmar open pull up jumpers. It said they have been encouraging them to dribble down and pull up for the jumper early. They felt as though it was an advantage point in the offense.

The article could have been wrong but it does seem as though fisher is doing it a lot more than he did last season. Taking the long jumper off the dribble.
Erik Eleven
RealGM
Posts: 16,468
And1: 17
Joined: Feb 12, 2005

Re: GAME 3- LAKERS@NUGGETS 

Post#156 » by Erik Eleven » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:11 pm

Interesting.

Return to Los Angeles Lakers