Point Guard Dilemma

[milesfides]

Blake is great, so is Duhon. So is Billups. But they're important starters for their teams. I don't know how we can reasonably pry them away, especially from our rivals. We wouldn't be in this situation if we had jumped on either - and we had 2 chances, both times around we dropped the ball. When we signed Fisher last year, I was one of the only naysayers, not because I dislike Fisher, who is among my favorite Lakers, but because he's not a starting point guard, and he never was. I assumed Farmar would take the starting position, but as of now, I can't see that happening any time soon.

But I've been decrying our point guard position ever since I joined RealGM. The Lakers have had some terrible point guards since Nick Van Exel. Quite possibly the worst point guard rotation over the past 10 years.

Can we win a championship with Fish as our starter? Maybe, but why play with a handicap? Didn't d-cash post the productivity ranking...how can a championship contender pretend nothing is wrong when one position is among the league's worst?

I only bring up Sasha because he has the background, size, and potential, and the fact that he's already on our team.

I'd love to hear alternatives. The list of available quality point guards is short.

Aside from any particular prejudice against Vujacic, I don't see how it could possibly hurt to give him a legitimate look.

It won't be easy to fix the PG spot. But difficulty shouldn't discourage addressing an issue of utmost urgency.

As far as trades go, as much as I think Kirk Hinrich is overrated, I'd consider him one of the best candidates available. That he's out for another 2 months doesn't help our basketball team, but it may help obtaining him.

Jarrett Jack is coming off the bench in Indy, but he's capable of starting. Good all-around guard, doesn't nothing special, but no glaring weakness either.

One can assume Earl Watson wants out of OKC, he's playing the worst of his career on an awful team that just fired its coach. Yet just last year, he averaged 11 points, 7 assists, only 2 turnovers, and solid shooting percentages across the board. That's the kind of player we need.

Marcus Williams is one of the most talented point guards who's most likely available, but he seems to have maturity issues. A low risk, high reward player.

Keyon Dooling might be had, a good defensive specialist. Might not even start, but at least he'd give us something to stop the bleeding.

[hermes]

i'm probably one of the biggest machine fans here, but i don't think he should be at the pg spot, because i think he lacks the mental game for that, he's a shooter first, second, third and then maybe pass

i fear the offense might become a free-for-all chuck fest with Sasha running the show, everyone trying to get shots in, with the fear they might never see the ball again

i like Sasha where he is now, and i'm fine with fisher and farmar running the pg spot for right now, everything will get better as we get into the middle of the season

[Sedale Threatt]

Maybe we should have brought back Kwame after all. Sign him to a huge one-year deal, then dupe the Hornets into taking him for Chris Paul. Problem solved.

[Erik Eleven]

Just for the record, I know we can't get Billups. I've always harped about him for years as the ideal back court complement to Kobe, even when we haven't had a shot at getting him. It was more of a humorous comment than anything else.

Marcus Williams is very interesting, but typically, uni-brow personalities are also uni-brow learners and take too long to learn the triangle. He might be an exception, I don't know enough about him to have an informed opinion. My gut instinct says I doubt it.

I'd be game trading for Steve Blake, Earl Watson, Jarrett Jack, Keyon Dooling, Tyronne Lue etc right now, to assure PG depth. Depending on what we get in return, these are the pieces I would consider trading: Mihm, Luke and yeah, Sasha — depending on what we get in return, of course. If we get a starting caliber NBA guard, I'd dangle Yue, as well. We want want to win now.

Then we sign Zo to the vet minimum.




P.S. This is a good thread, miles. The Lakers actually need to do something. Now. What if Fisher goes down before the playoffs?

For all defensive intents and purposes, I still think Ariza could make life hell for pretty much any PG in the league. If his perimeter shooting keeps improving and he becomes a threat, I don't see why we wouldn't do that before giving the nod to Sasha. Even if his shooting doesn't improve further, I'd still give him the nod. His defense and court awareness are light-years better, in my humble opinion.

[Danny Darko]

Guess I still trust Fish. There's some valid arguments about his game in general now, but we're talking just finishing games. In the end game I take Fish's poise and gamble that he's still going to fly around on D knowing the importance.

Sasha has to earn more respect from me right now, especially after letting Ray walk right by him in the finals.

Farmar, is going to be that guy I think at some point, but I also think his ego is a bit brash right now and he tends to hog the ball from even Kobe. I'm sure he would want some last shots, and I'm not sure I want him doing that. Fish will find the open man or make the money clutch shot.

Ariza is an interesting option because we have lots of ball handling forwards to move the ball and Ariza has proven he can stay with quick guys like A.I. His team D and man D would be great situationally.

[Sedale Threatt]

P.S. This is a good thread, miles. The Lakers actually need to do something. Now. What if Fisher goes down before the playoffs?

I agree -- an interesting debate. Despite our disparate takes, I think we are all on the same page regarding the need for an upgrade.

In lieu of a mana-from-heaven type trade, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the combined strength of the rest of our roster is enough to carry the day. Or that Fisher will recall his role during the 3-peat and concentrate on spotting up and chipping in rather than forcing the action so flagrantly.

Not that the two are necessarily exclusive, but the issue most immediately concerning to me isn't our PG situation but the noticeable dip in our defensive prowess over the past week or so. That is very, very disheartening. I know it's still early, but I was really thinking we'd turned the corner in this most crucial area.

Perhaps we still have, and are just in a slump right now, but damn if we're not starting to look like last year's bunch -- unfocused and disjointed. If that's the price to pay for better cohesion on offense, it's not nearly worth it.

We need to D up, first and foremost. Hopefully Phillip gets us back on track.

[ReaListik]

This thread is an example of one of the reasons I joined this forum, intellectual analysis and no-one calling each other names like it's recess at a junior high.

We all agree that we don't have the best options at point guard, and I think that there is a definite need to pick up an upgrade, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I love what Fisher does for the team's morale by providing leadership, encouragement, guidance and energy. The guy is one of those absolute necessary essentials to have on a championship team for those reasons, that go beyond anything skill wise. I'll admit that the day he left for GS, that sucked and added to the whole disappointment and break down of that team in '04. When we got him and were willing to help him out while his daughter needed medical attention I was extremely glad to get him back. From a fan standpoint, I would like to see him finish out his days as a captain on this team.

Sasha has got a bright future, and he's definitely a talented player. Farmar's energy is good as well, but of those 3 I see Farmar getting dealt in a trade for whatever player the Lakers feel they need, because of what he's been doing since last season, and that's being a key spark from the bench crew, and a lot of teams want that kind of player.

Boston's coming up quickly, and I think that we'll see that as a real benchmark for where we are at that point in the season.

[Erik Eleven]

It's interesting to watch the games with this thread in mind. Fisher's inability to hold quicker PGs at bay is a glaring weakness. Farmar impressed tonight on both ends of the floor, but still needs time before he can be a legit starting PG on a contending team.

Ariza once again showed strong flashes of being a good playmaker against NJ. Besides the couple of highlight assists, when he gets the ball up top, he actually always gets the offense initiated with a crisp pass or a threatening probing jab. And he does it with a plan and a purpose. I think he has the right mind and talents to be an initiating PG for spot minutes, maybe more. He's a thinker out there. He rarely makes mistakes. And, most importantly, his first option seems to always be to feed Bynum and Gasol down deep. He's tall and feeds them with ease, unlike our real PGs.

Defensively, there is no question in my mind that Ariza is far superior to Sasha, and everyine else not named Kobe. Ariza is an elite man defender and can guard positions 1-4 on switches without setting his team back one bit. Sasha isn't even close to being that good a defender. In my opinion, Ariza has the better handles, sees the floor better, has a cooler yet more aggressive head, is a better rebounder, is quicker and stronger, and can finish and contest in traffic around the rim. They both move well off the ball. The only area where Sasha has a clear advantage is shooting. My vote for clutch PG lockdown minutes stays with Ariza.

We still need to add a better perimeter defender to stop the bleeding. Opposing PGs have a way too easy time getting to the hoop. Hopefully something will shake lose before the deadline.

[larry14r]

It's interesting to watch the games with this thread in mind. Fisher's inability to hold quicker PGs at bay is a glaring weakness. Farmar impressed tonight on both ends of the floor, but still needs time before he can be a legit starting PG on a contending team.

Ariza once again showed strong flashes of being a good playmaker against NJ. Besides the couple of highlight assists, when he gets the ball up top, he actually always gets the offense initiated with a crisp pass or a threatening probing jab. And he does it with a plan and a purpose. I think he has the right mind and talents to be an initiating PG for spot minutes, maybe more. He's a thinker out there. He rarely makes mistakes. And, most importantly, his first option seems to always be to feed Bynum and Gasol down deep. He's tall and feeds them with ease, unlike our real PGs.

Defensively, there is no question in my mind that Ariza is far superior to Sasha, and everyine else not named Kobe. Ariza is an elite man defender and can guard positions 1-4 on switches without setting his team back one bit. Sasha isn't even close to being that good a defender. In my opinion, Ariza has the better handles, sees the floor better, has a cooler yet more aggressive head, is a better rebounder, is quicker and stronger, and can finish and contest in traffic around the rim. They both move well off the ball. The only area where Sasha has a clear advantage is shooting. My vote for clutch PG lockdown minutes stays with Ariza.

We still need to add a better perimeter defender to stop the bleeding. Opposing PGs have a way too easy time getting to the hoop. Hopefully something will shake lose before the deadline.

Expect that it won't be easy to do, and also add to the fact that no one wants to trade with the Lakers again after what happend last year at the deadline.

[Erik Eleven]

The Grizzlies are pretty happy with Marc Gasol, I think. I heard they're also pretty stoked about the double digit millions they cleared off their cap with Kwame's and McKie's expirings. Crittenton is a very good PG in the making. His coach better give him some minutes or he'll break out in another jersey some time soon. It's quite a misconception in the media and amongst fans that the Lakers robbed them. They didn't.

[Verbal]

As I stated before:

I'd love to see the defensive lineup of: Ariza/Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Bynum.

In a simple 2-3 zone our length would be enormous.


LO/Kobe/Ariza can all close out on shooters if need be, and we'll snatch every rebound within 8 feet of the hoop - easily.

A no-fly-zone will be implemented and force the other team to beat us with jumpers.

Cha-Ching.

[Verbal]

Fisher seems like the best option to close out games b/c of his experience...

But Kobe is still the best facilitator on this team.

If Gasol/Bynum has it cooking in the 4th I wouldn't mind going to them to open the floor up. (How's their Triangle Offense IQ right now?)


I don't think I've seen Kobe on the high screen and rolls that Wade/Lebron do so often yet.

The offense might want to add it if they're intent on keeping Fisher and Radman on the floor together.

Kobe + Gasol on the screen and roll w/ two shooters beside them, Bynum/LO down on the box to snatch any potential rebounds or finishes by the rim.

[Sedale Threatt]

I've never thought Kobe was particularly effective in the PR. Seems like 80% of the time he gets trapped, then dribbles way back behind the 3-point line until the second defender drops off and he's back in a 1-on-1 situation. All you've done at that point is kill precious seconds off the 24-second clock.

I do like that he's posting up a lot more. I think that's going to be an essential part of his arsenal as he gets older.

I'm intrigued with the defensive lineup you prosposed. I think our offense could suffer -- other than Kobe, there isn't a shooter in the bunch. But as someone who's been pushing defense, I can imagine that unit wreaking a lot of havoc provided it could keep quicker PGs and SFs from penetration. That's a hell of a lot of wingspan out there.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I think in a very perverse way Miles may have a point with Sasha at the point. it seems that since we are using the traditional triangle offense less and less that we are forgetting about the traditional role of the triangle offense point guard. we crave a traditional point guard, but the machine and his one and a half dimention would fit real well in the triangle. he does not have to be the initiator. his job would be to spread the floor with his 3 point shooting and be a pest which is what he does. we are all talking about how Kobe does not need to do as much offensibly then mabe he can be the initiator. with Radman and the Machine on the outside and Bynum and Gasol on the inside Kobe as initiator would have the season of his life. I even think that it would even work against the Celtics, however, we would have to go back to a more traditional triangle offense than what we are running now.

[Erik Eleven]

I was about to propose the exact same line-up, Verb.

Sign me up!

We don't need to spread the floor with such a defensive unit. All they'd have to do is to defend and run the fastbreak. The opponent's offense would be overwhelmed, no doubt. Kobe and Ariza is quite a defensive perimeter duo. And yeah, I'd say we should have quite an advantage in rebounding. Kobe is a threat from behind the arc. Why not use him as a lurking shooter with this unit to spread the floor? Plus, I have a feeling Ariza's shooting will keep improving over the course of the season.