Chad Ford: How Shaq and Kobe could reunite

[jaypo]

Snaq- I'll tell you that after you tell me how Kobe's tastes. Because if you're disagreeing with me but not offering anything to counter my statement, then you're obviously a KOBE fan first and foremost. I've already said that Shaq's my favorite player. I'm not denying that. I loved his days in LA, and I was a huge Kobe fan for years, until the true Kobe was revealed. I'm also not that fond of Jerry Buss anymore. He let PJ walk because he basically put all of his chips with Kobe. It was no secret that Kobe didn't want PJ there because he was confined in the triangle system. So he allowed PJ to walk. But then, Kobe had an epiphany- he realized that it actually takes a TEAM and a COACH to win games. So after eating crow for a season or 2, Buss begs PJ to come back and all is well. It's pretty sickening really. Another point that I forgot to mention is that when you have a lineup of Kobe, Payton, Shaq, and Malone, you can thrown in Malone's grandmother and still be good enough to win a championship. I know Malone wasn't 100% for most of the year, but they still should have won it all. Why didn't they? Because the majority of that season was spent flying Kobe to Colorado on the Lakers' private jet for his many court appearances. So you think that Shaq not being able to run the 40 in 4.3 did more to destroy the chemistry than that? I challenge you to go back and watch the 04 Finals and notice how damn selfish Kobe was in that series. There was a game that Shaq had like 36 and 20 and was unstoppable. Instead of Kobe continuing to pound the ball inside, Kobe tried to take over in the 4th and they lost. It was things like that that led to the downfall of the Lakers.

Phil2.0- tell me what I said that was wrong. Before you try to be funny and dismiss my post, counter it with valid points and prove me wrong. Otherwise, thank you for letting me play, and I'm enjoying the victory.

[laka4life]

Jaypo, the path you're going down right now is the path of pretty much taking on the whole board.....

Don't see you winning this for much longer once people wake up and see ur dumbass statements

[jaypo]

I'm not trying to take on anybody. I simply asked the 2 that answered my post to tell me why they think I'm wrong, and neither did. I know what I said probably pissed a bunch of people off, and that wasn't my intention. I just don't understand why Laker fans are so anti Shaq but pro Kobe.

Maybe I should have approached it differently. I'll try again with this question: If the roles were reversed, and Shaq were the one that lobbied to get Kobe traded and ousted PJ, then missed the playoffs the next year, and lobbied to get PJ back and returned to the playoffs after stealing Gasol from the Grizz, while in the offseason Kobe made a funny rap about the taste of Shaq's buttocks, would you guys hate Kobe and love Shaq? Even while Shaq was there, there were always fans and media ripping on him. So I guess instead of my earlier post, I should have approached it a little less confrontationally. My new topic will be what if Kobe and Shaq switched positions after the 04 season and Kobe was traded but Shaq stayed and had the exact same results as Kobe. Would there be animosity towards Kobe? Because my whole point earlier was that with all that crap that Kobe did to your team, you guys still love him, and all Shaq did was demand an extension and he gets all of the hate from you guys. Instead of the extension, he got traded. So I'm just saying that I don't understand why the animosity towards Shaq and none for Kobe.

That's all I was trying to say. Sorry if I offended anybody, but instead of discussing my points with me, a few people on here just want to make it confrontational. I just want to hear why the love and why the hate.

[laka4life]

Shaq didn't just demand an extension: He demanded Bill Gates money. For the next 5-6 years, it would've been Kobe Shaq Joe Schmoe and Herman running with em. Plain and simple, had Shaq pulled a Tim Duncan and not demanded stupid money, which don't get me wrong, he was worth, he would've remained a Laker. But in terms of business and basketball decisions, Buss made the correct decision here. 70% of the cap would've been tied up between two guys.....just can't have that.

Shaq didn't bother to get into shape until January or February. Yes, yes, yes I know. He always produced when it counted. But put yourself in Buss's shoes....this is where I want you to reply to this....this is your money your dolling out. Are you giving 130 million to Kobe over 7 years, or 175-200 million to Shaq over 5?? Buss's thinking was very simple: In the offseason, he sees his young superstar in the gym at 6 in the morning trying to make himself into the greatest. On the other end, he sees Shaq delaying surgeries, gaining weight, and not working on free throws, conditioning, etc. I can't lie: I would have easily preferred give my money to Kobe over Shaq.

And in terms of chemistry issues: They both were in the wrong at certain points. Kobe, yes he wanted more freedom to see exactly what he could become. Can you blame him? Blessed with once in a lifetime skill, I'm pretty sure I would want to see what my ceiling was also. Not for an ego boost, but just to know exactly where his hard work and skill could take him. Guess what? He found out one man can't do it, and he's turned into exactly what he should've been with Shaq. So yes, we are all Kobe lovers, but don't be mistaken in thinking that we don't think he made mistakes. Kobe is not perfect, but he learned from his mistakes. Shaq had his fair share of chemistry problems as well though. In order to make this whole thing work, Kobe wasn't the only one that needed to sacrifice. Shaq needed to a little bit also, and plain and simple, he wasn't at a point where he was willing to do that.

Overall, there were a lot more positives with Kobe during that summer, and though it pained all of us to see Shaq go, I wouldn't redo what we did that day. Kobe has turned out to be the best player in the league, and though Shaq did go on to win one ring, Kobe is on the verge of possibly winning several more.

Could they have won 6 or 7 together? Absolutely no doubt about it. But we don't live in this perfect world we all dream of, and there are going to be issues between stars. It didn't work out, and that's that. They've both put the past behind them, and both just want to win rings plain and simple.

If that means bringing Shaq back to LA, do it. He just needs to understand he will be coming off the bench and the leader of THIS team is the Bean.

So in closing, it's not Shaq hating, but it is rather agreeing with the decision made. No disrespect to Shaq.

[laka4life]

And yes, I can already see you're going to tell me that Shaq brought 3 rings so the money shouldn't matter.

Number One Rule about our world: Everything and I mean everything is a financial decision. Money runs this world, so please just accept that.

Because in terms of money, this move was a no-brainer

[jaypo]

I agree with you about the money. I'm watching the Suns trying to trade Amare for peanuts to save a buck. My mentality is that if I were any NBA player, the ultimate goal is a ring, and if that means me playing 2 minutes all out to do so, that's what I would do. Shaq's desire to have the offense run thru him pissed Kobe off immensely. I understand why, because if I were Kobe with the most talent since MJ, I'd want to free lance also. But a fact is a fact- running the triple post offense thru Shaq got them to the Finals 4 out of 5 years, and 3 rings. So Shaq's point was "if it ain't broke, why try to fix it". Kobe obviously put his own desires before that of the team goal of winning a 'chip. I've also tried for years to explain the conditioning issue with people, and it even came out of PJ's mouth- Shaq was asked to bulk up when he came to the more physical western conference, and people say that he got fat. However, his body fat% was never above 15% (I said 12 yesterday in error). I'm 6'00, 195 lbs with a 34 waist, and my body fat is 24%, so use that as a comparison. I don't condone the toe surgery thing, so that's one I can't counter. But Shaq was known for working on his free throws consistently, and he hit the majority of them-except in the games. Lastly, Kobe was able to work on his game more than Shaq, but Shaq also had 6 kids at home to deal with!

[TonyMontana]

I love how peps talk about what happened between Shaq/Kobe/Phil like they were there through out the whole ordeal.
If you werent there then dont assume since YOU ARE WRONG at your assumption.

[laka4life]

I agree with you about the money. I'm watching the Suns trying to trade Amare for peanuts to save a buck. My mentality is that if I were any NBA player, the ultimate goal is a ring, and if that means me playing 2 minutes all out to do so, that's what I would do. Shaq's desire to have the offense run thru him pissed Kobe off immensely. I understand why, because if I were Kobe with the most talent since MJ, I'd want to free lance also. But a fact is a fact- running the triple post offense thru Shaq got them to the Finals 4 out of 5 years, and 3 rings. So Shaq's point was "if it ain't broke, why try to fix it". Kobe obviously put his own desires before that of the team goal of winning a 'chip. I've also tried for years to explain the conditioning issue with people, and it even came out of PJ's mouth- Shaq was asked to bulk up when he came to the more physical western conference, and people say that he got fat. However, his body fat% was never above 15% (I said 12 yesterday in error). I'm 6'00, 195 lbs with a 34 waist, and my body fat is 24%, so use that as a comparison. I don't condone the toe surgery thing, so that's one I can't counter. But Shaq was known for working on his free throws consistently, and he hit the majority of them-except in the games. Lastly, Kobe was able to work on his game more than Shaq, but Shaq also had 6 kids at home to deal with!

Please don't try and tell me that Shaq's kids are the reason he was always out of shape and never came to camp with anything new to add to his arsenal unlike Kobe......

What did Kobe bring new this year? The patented Michael Jordan fadeaway that Hubie Brown couldn't help but beat off over during the Lakers Cavs game two weeks ago. Kobe year in year out brings something new to the table to keep the defender off balance.

So don't give me the kids excuse.....If you disagree with the money vs. rings issue, I completely understand that because frankly, your prolly right, but like I said, money still runs the league, and our world in general. But that's a whole other issue. Don't let Shaq off the hook cuz he has kids....that's weak

[laka4life]

I love how peps talk about what happened between Shaq/Kobe/Phil like they were there through out the whole ordeal.
If you werent there then dont assume since YOU ARE WRONG at your assumption.

You are right here tho. We can only talk on what we hear, and one thing that is interesting is seeing Shaq's completely reversal in feelings for Kobe since the departure. Think maybe someone realized he was in the wrong frequently?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Just sayin....

[jaypo]

Well, did any of you read PJ's book? Or listen to any of the interviews with Tex Winter? Or listen to any of the interviews from either player? I did. So the things I posted earlier are not just what I think or what I pulled out of thin air. Do any of you dispute the fact that PJ told Mitch Kupchak that he wanted him to get rid of Kobe because he was uncoachable? Or that Kobe told PJ that, and I quote, "I'm tired of being a sidekick"? Or that Shaq was probably in better shape than most of us on this board? And to say he added nothing into his arsenal- did you follow his career from the Magic to the 3 peat days? He added a whole array of low post moves to his arsenal. He didn't need to perfect a fade away or more range because he was able to dominate without that. Maybe Shaq grew up a little and realized that he was wrong, but did Kobe???? I did not say that Shaq was out of shape because of his kids. I meant that it could have been possible that he couldn't spend as many hours perfecting his game as Kobe because his home life was a little different.

You guys can sit there and blast me all you want. But you're saying I'm wrong for assuming things and are positive that I'm wrong. However, I'm quoting your coach and teammates. What makes you think that you're so correct in your assumptions? I may not have been in the locker room with the people, but when you read their words from their experiences in their books, and listen to their interviews and their sides of the story, then my "assumptions" have more validity than you guys' opinions. So again, I'm asking for you to tell me something that discredits my posts and to answer me why the hate for Shaq but the love for Kobe?

[cavsfan_osiris]

It's like a summer of '04 throwback party in here.

[LLcoleJ]

Phil2.0- tell me what I said that was wrong. Before you try to be funny and dismiss my post, counter it with valid points and prove me wrong. Otherwise, thank you for letting me play, and I'm enjoying the victory.

I wont go through this giberish anymore So played out. You admit to having a Shaq bias, yet you are " right" When someone brings up Kobe, they are a KOBE fan first. The problem here, if we go off this premise it will fail in discussion.

There are people who are both Kobe and Shaq fans, appreciate what they bring to the team. Realize there were alot of mistakes on all sides. ( Kobe, Shaq and Jerry) and wont get into one-sided bias arguments.

When you have that position ( as you do) its a non-starter , yawn , pointless dialogue.

So, go high 5 yourself if you think you have "won" something.