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OT: Question from a Bulls fan

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Bulls_Dynasty6
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OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#1 » by Bulls_Dynasty6 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:45 am

Okay, so my buddy and I were having an intense argument about the effects superstars have on their teams. He says that a team without a superstar can't win a ring. I tell him that he's wrong (seriously this guy is stupid) and that you win with teamwork. He says without Kobe, Lakers would suck. I'd just like to know what the Lakers record is without him in the lineup. I'm pretty sure it's a winning record, but I'd just like to know.

P.S. Best luck to you guys when you play us on Saturday.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#2 » by DEEP3CL » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:57 am

Honestly I can't really say what the record is without Kobe because he's been so durable the last couple of seasons. But if I had to stab at it I'd say it's around .500 or in fact maybe under .500.

And you could have shut your buddy down by telling him NO team in NBA history has won without a star player.Yes it does take teamwork even with a star player, but star players win you the tough games not role players. When he comes up with one check in and let us know who it was.
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SmartWentCrazy wrote:It's extremely unlikely that they end up in the top 3.They're probably better off trying to win and giving Philly the 8th pick than tanking and giving them the 4th.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#3 » by iamworthy » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:03 am

Really hard question to answer because roll players that play with SuperStars arent really as good without that star. Being that teams are game planning for lets say a Kobe allows guys like Sasha to get no attention at all and therefore have wide open shots.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#4 » by microfib4thewin » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:06 am

35 wins, and that's assuming Bynum is putting 20/10. Kobe is the only one in the backcourt who can create and make contested shots(Fisher can do it in spurts). Without Kobe all there is are a bunch of inconsistent shooters. I can't imagine how the offense will be run with just Bynum and Gasol.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#5 » by JellosJigglin » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:11 am

I can't remember the last time Kobe missed a game. He's been a machine the last couple seasons. He plays through all kinds of injuries/illnesses.

I remember when we had Caron and they did win some games when Kobe went out. But once the adrenaline wore out they came back down to earth.

Basically since the Lakers became elite, he hasn't had any major injury (knocks on wood). I'll say they're under .500 without him, simply because they were a pretty bad team - even WITH Kobe - the last time he missed significant time.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#6 » by dockingsched » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:16 am

jordan farmar would be the only player that can remotely create his own shot on the perimeter or play the pick n roll with pau/bynum, that would be sad.

40 wins max, and thats with a healthy bynum.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#7 » by Bulls_Dynasty6 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:18 am

DEEP3CL wrote:Honestly I can't really say what the record is without Kobe because he's been so durable the last couple of seasons. But if I had to stab at it I'd say it's around .500 or in fact maybe under .500.

And you could have shut your buddy down by telling him NO team in NBA history has won without a star player.Yes it does take teamwork even with a star player, but star players win you the tough games not role players. When he comes up with one check in and let us know who it was.


Actually, I'm the one saying that you need teamwork and defense to win. I acknowledge that you do need a superstar to win a championship, but my buddy says that all you need is a superstar and that's it. The rest of the team doesn't matter according to him.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#8 » by JellosJigglin » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:23 am

Bulls_Dynasty6 wrote:
DEEP3CL wrote:Honestly I can't really say what the record is without Kobe because he's been so durable the last couple of seasons. But if I had to stab at it I'd say it's around .500 or in fact maybe under .500.

And you could have shut your buddy down by telling him NO team in NBA history has won without a star player.Yes it does take teamwork even with a star player, but star players win you the tough games not role players. When he comes up with one check in and let us know who it was.


Actually, I'm the one saying that you need teamwork and defense to win. I acknowledge that you do need a superstar to win a championship, but my buddy says that all you need is a superstar and that's it. The rest of the team doesn't matter according to him.


lol that's ridiculous. How does he explain the Lakers bowing out in the 1st round of the playoffs for 2 consecutive seasons when they had Kobe in his prime? Or the T-Wolves being in the lottery annually when they had Garnett? A championship team needs to have a big-3 and at LEAST 4 good role players. The fact that the Lakers won a three-peat with only a big-2 is something we might not see again for decades. But even that team had a ton of quality role players.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#9 » by DEEP3CL » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:27 am

Bulls_Dynasty6 wrote:Actually, I'm the one saying that you need teamwork and defense to win. I acknowledge that you do need a superstar to win a championship, but my buddy says that all you need is a superstar and that's it. The rest of the team doesn't matter according to him.
You're right you do need those two elements, but having a star certainly makes it easier. And your buddy has been eating too many Fruit Loops ! You need way more than a star, if that's the case then why didn't my boys win jack when it was Kobe and chump change from 05 to 07 ?
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SmartWentCrazy wrote:It's extremely unlikely that they end up in the top 3.They're probably better off trying to win and giving Philly the 8th pick than tanking and giving them the 4th.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#10 » by AceFresh » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:52 am

O/T: I love that avy jello.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#11 » by TylersLakers » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:10 am

Yeah, he's been great the last couple years as far as staying healthy. I was wondering the other day how long his streak is in consecutive games played.

The last one he probably missed was the suspension when he flailed the arm at Ginobili two years ago.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#12 » by Mamba Venom » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:19 am

Without Kobe there is no Phil

No phil & no Kobe = lottery

The Clippers are to close to remind us Laker fans why thats a really bad thing
Lakers are 22-3 in OT last 6 seasons:Kobe best OT closer!
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#13 » by TonyMontana » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:14 pm

Lets delete this thread since we dont even want to think of this team without Kobe in it and you guys know how I am about bad luck threads, what if we were without Kobe and next thing you know BOOM........... remember all the Bynum appreciation threads????
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#14 » by Plastered » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:47 pm

a side note: you dont need a superstar.... see pistons 04 - bunch of good players

record without kobe would be interesting because i think you would see a lot more LO-Bynum pick and rolls - probably 40-45 wins
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#15 » by tdfoss » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:57 pm

DEEP3CL wrote:Honestly I can't really say what the record is without Kobe because he's been so durable the last couple of seasons. But if I had to stab at it I'd say it's around .500 or in fact maybe under .500.

And you could have shut your buddy down by telling him NO team in NBA history has won without a star player.Yes it does take teamwork even with a star player, but star players win you the tough games not role players. When he comes up with one check in and let us know who it was.



I have to disagree with you slightly, when Detroit beat the Lakers a few years ago in the finals, they had no true superstar on that team (no Kobe, Michael, LeBron.....), they had a team of high quality players and all starts, but no true super stars.

If you look over the years at the teams that win, almost all of the time they do have a superstar.
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#16 » by supaflash » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:19 pm

Detroit has been the one exception where they didn't have a top 5 guy but if you look at it they had the best starting 5 that the league has seen over the last several years. They had 3 legit all-star players and the other 2 were near all-star caliber. Big Ben was a beast that year and Tayshaun is always right on the edge of being one. AND even with all that their championship was a bit of a fluke imo. They just happened to get there riding a hot streak while the Lakers went horribly cold after that too easy series against Minny and the 8 day layoff. Throw in Malone's injury as well. I honestly believe that if you played that series 5 more times with both teams healthy the Lakers win 4.

Look at the other Champions though, They are almost always won by a team with a top 5 in the league guy. Last year's Boston team probably had the weakest superstar but they had 3 nearly equal guys which is rare and you could make a pretty good case for either Garnett or Pierce being one of the top 5 guys in the league last year.

Garnet/Pierce
Duncan
Wade/Shaq
Duncan
Detroit
Duncan
Kobe/Shaq
Kobe/Shaq
Kobe/Shaq
Duncan/Robinson
Jordan
Jordan
Jordan
Hakeem
Hakeem
Jordan
Jordan
Jordan
Isaiah
Isaiah
Magic
Magic
Bird
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Bird
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Re: OT: Question from a Bulls fan 

Post#17 » by Mamba Venom » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:18 am

Detroit had the DPOY 3 allstars and an olympian.
That is a lot of talent. Strong 1-5 + a bench and a defense that confused the Lakers West coast style of playing ball.

Detroit is the most under rated team ever and its strange because its all media.
What is Billups doing in Denver. Superstar AI couldnt do that w/ Camby a few years ago.
Lakers are 22-3 in OT last 6 seasons:Kobe best OT closer!

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