MVP discussion

[magic1fan]

well i don't follow ts. all i know is if a player shoots 48%,then they shoot 48%! i also know wade scores more,get's more steals,and more blocks than lebron. he also get's more assists. now as far as hollinger and his lame per goes,i don't follow those types of things. i go off what's in front of me.

[DowJones]

well i don't follow ts. all i know is if a player shoots 48%,then they shoot 48%! i also know wade scores more,get's more steals,and more blocks than lebron. he also get's more assists. now as far as hollinger and his lame per goes,i don't follow those types of things. i go off what's in front of me.

I think people are questioning your reasoning. To me it sounds like you are essentially saying that Kobe is the MVP because you are a Kobe fan. You disregard stats and you disregard the fact that Bron has taken a team that doesn't have as much supporting talent to a better record in favor of 2 head to head meetings where NEITHER player played well.

I have yet to hear a real reason as to why you think Kobe is the MVP. If you could provide that then I am all for it. What you are doing is poking holes in LeBron's case without really making a case for Kobe. If you can do that then be my guest.

[tkb]

well i don't follow ts. all i know is if a player shoots 48%,then they shoot 48%! i also know wade scores more,get's more steals,and more blocks than lebron. he also get's more assists. now as far as hollinger and his lame per goes,i don't follow those types of things. i go off what's in front of me.

Ok. Use this example:

- Player A attempts only 10 3s in a game (no 2s or FTs) and drains 5 of them for 15 points.
- Player B attempts only 10 2s is a game (no 3s or FTs) and drains 5 of them for 10 points.

Your reasoning would then be that player A and player B are equally efficient despite player A scoring 50% more points on the same number of attempts. I don't agree with that approach, at all.

Now, I'm not going to say that TS% doesn't have it flaws (it has and it has to do with how it accounts for and 1s), but FG% is probably the most flawed stat in basketball after 1979-80 when they started using the 3p-line when you talk about perimeter players.

I'm not going to say PER doesn't have it's flaws either, but it's a pretty good indicator about statistical production.

LeBron blows Wade out in +/- stats too btw which indicates that he elevates his team (which is better to begin with who makes it even more impressive) more than Wade does.

If you start talking about the subjective way of measuring the players, I think LeBron just is a better player than Wade, also on defense this season.

Better stats, elevates his already better team more, better defense, better player, much better team record. Those are my arguments for why LeBron should be ranked over Wade in the MVP race.

Kobe and Wade have both been great, but LeBron should win it in convincingly fashion. The voting shouldn't even be close IMO the way the season has progressed. It would be a travesty should LeBron not win MVP this season to be honest.

[Durantist]

The real question should be: MVP Gasol or Lebron?

[infinite11285]

LeBron has the best individual stats of all the candidates, including 7 triple doubles (and a quasi 55 point triple double). LeBron is also not only having his best season individually, but one of the best seasons EVER in league history. LeBron has had the second most 40 point games and the most 50 point games this season of any NBA player.

The Cavs are the #1 team in the NBA, ahead of the Lakers and Celtics, who were the #1 seeds in their respective conferences last year.

The Cavs are top 3 in defense (might be #1) and offense.

The Cavs have the best home record in the league.

The Cavs have the highest point differential in the NBA.

Summary: Best stats, the most efficient player, best team record, best team defense, top 3 in offense, highest point differential in the NBA. How does this not equal LeBron for MVP?

This season, LeBron's stats are ONLY comparable to Jordan's BEST season (when MJ won MVP). Are you insinuating that Kobe is having a better season individually then Jordan's best season and the MVP should be his?

[LLcoleJ]

The real question should be: MVP Gasol or Lebron?

The real question is why are you trolling?

[aroba]

It doesn't matter. Lebron MVP and Lakers win championship. Period

[magic1fan]

well i don't follow ts. all i know is if a player shoots 48%,then they shoot 48%! i also know wade scores more,get's more steals,and more blocks than lebron. he also get's more assists. now as far as hollinger and his lame per goes,i don't follow those types of things. i go off what's in front of me.

I think people are questioning your reasoning. To me it sounds like you are essentially saying that Kobe is the MVP because you are a Kobe fan. You disregard stats and you disregard the fact that Bron has taken a team that doesn't have as much supporting talent to a better record in favor of 2 head to head meetings where NEITHER player played well.

I have yet to hear a real reason as to why you think Kobe is the MVP. If you could provide that then I am all for it. What you are doing is poking holes in LeBron's case without really making a case for Kobe. If you can do that then be my guest.

i don't entirely disregard stats,i just take them into context. like i have said before you can't go wrong with giving lebron mvp. my vote would go to kobe,because one i am a laker fan,and two like i said when i take everything into context. i don't see a world of difference between 27/5/5 and 28/7/7. that's just me. as far as lebron not having as good a supporting cast i just think that is a lie. lebron's stats are basically the same as last year,and yet his team is blowing away the record it had last year. he has a better point guard,and right now his bench imo is better than ours. also guys have to be able to put the ball in the hoop for him to have the type of assist numbers he has. we on the other hand are scrambling because our starting center is hurt,and we have had to shuffle our lineup. if bynum were here,we would probab;y have five less losses. you may not like my reasons but i don't really see alot of great reasoning for lebron except the fact that he has a two game lead,and great"per" stats. not impressed,but oh well.

[magic1fan]

well i don't follow ts. all i know is if a player shoots 48%,then they shoot 48%! i also know wade scores more,get's more steals,and more blocks than lebron. he also get's more assists. now as far as hollinger and his lame per goes,i don't follow those types of things. i go off what's in front of me.

Ok. Use this example:

- Player A attempts only 10 3s in a game (no 2s or FTs) and drains 5 of them for 15 points.
- Player B attempts only 10 2s is a game (no 3s or FTs) and drains 5 of them for 10 points.

Your reasoning would then be that player A and player B are equally efficient despite player A scoring 50% more points on the same number of attempts. I don't agree with that approach, at all.

Now, I'm not going to say that TS% doesn't have it flaws (it has and it has to do with how it accounts for and 1s), but FG% is probably the most flawed stat in basketball after 1979-80 when they started using the 3p-line when you talk about perimeter players.

I'm not going to say PER doesn't have it's flaws either, but it's a pretty good indicator about statistical production.

LeBron blows Wade out in +/- stats too btw which indicates that he elevates his team (which is better to begin with who makes it even more impressive) more than Wade does.

If you start talking about the subjective way of measuring the players, I think LeBron just is a better player than Wade, also on defense this season.

Better stats, elevates his already better team more, better defense, better player, much better team record. Those are my arguments for why LeBron should be ranked over Wade in the MVP race.

Kobe and Wade have both been great, but LeBron should win it in convincingly fashion. The voting shouldn't even be close IMO the way the season has progressed. It would be a travesty should LeBron not win MVP this season to be honest.

that makes sense,thanx for taking time out to break it down.

[hermes]

lebron

[DowJones]

well i don't follow ts. all i know is if a player shoots 48%,then they shoot 48%! i also know wade scores more,get's more steals,and more blocks than lebron. he also get's more assists. now as far as hollinger and his lame per goes,i don't follow those types of things. i go off what's in front of me.

I think people are questioning your reasoning. To me it sounds like you are essentially saying that Kobe is the MVP because you are a Kobe fan. You disregard stats and you disregard the fact that Bron has taken a team that doesn't have as much supporting talent to a better record in favor of 2 head to head meetings where NEITHER player played well.

I have yet to hear a real reason as to why you think Kobe is the MVP. If you could provide that then I am all for it. What you are doing is poking holes in LeBron's case without really making a case for Kobe. If you can do that then be my guest.

i don't entirely disregard stats,i just take them into context. like i have said before you can't go wrong with giving lebron mvp. my vote would go to kobe,because one i am a laker fan,and two like i said when i take everything into context. i don't see a world of difference between 27/5/5 and 28/7/7. that's just me. as far as lebron not having as good a supporting cast i just think that is a lie. lebron's stats are basically the same as last year,and yet his team is blowing away the record it had last year. he has a better point guard,and right now his bench imo is better than ours. also guys have to be able to put the ball in the hoop for him to have the type of assist numbers he has. we on the other hand are scrambling because our starting center is hurt,and we have had to shuffle our lineup. if bynum were here,we would probab;y have five less losses. you may not like my reasons but i don't really see alot of great reasoning for lebron except the fact that he has a two game lead,and great"per" stats. not impressed,but oh well.

Again, you have failed to make an argument FOR Kobe. All you have done is try and poke holes in LeBron's argument...i.e. stats aren't important, Cleveland has a better supporting cast than LA, etc. Make an argument for Kobe instead of making an argument for why LeBron doesn't deserve it. I think the only argument you have is that you like Kobe for MVP more because you are a Laker fan. That is about it.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I refuse to buy into the argument that the Cavs don't have the talent that the Lakers have.


take Kobe out of the Lakers and Lebron out of the Cavs, who wins on a seven game series?

I say the Cavs.

[That Nicka]

^^
Fisher/Farmar
Sasha/Brown
Ariza/Walton
Odom/Powell
Gasol/Bynum/Mbenga

Williams/Gibson
West/Pavlovic
Szczerbiak/Pavlovic
Wallace/Smith/Hickson
Illgauskus/Varejao

The Cavs have the better backcourt, but the Lakers are much MUCH better in the front court. I'd give the advantage to the Lakers...



Unless Kobe has an AMAZING April AND we manage to overtake the Cavs for best record, Kobe MIGHT have a chance to win MVP (and by amazing I mean something like 40 ppg on 48%)... this last month has hurt his cause imo... I think Bron and Wade have pretty clearly passed Kobe

[spree2kawhi]

I found something interesting: these are kobe's stats of the 2002-2003 season when he was lebron's age:

02-03 LAL 82 82 41,5 (MPG) 0,451 0,383 0,843 1,3 5,6 6,9 (RPG) 5,9 (APG) 2,2 (SPG) 0,8 3,51 2,70 30,0 (PPG)

that's really impressive but people keep saying lebron will overtake kobe once he matures. isn't it obvious that kobe is simply the most complete player out there at the moment? stats don't always tell the whole story as kobe back then obviously wasn't as good as he is today even though he put up those lebron-like numbers...

[Throwback24]

I found something interesting: these are kobe's stats of the 2002-2003 season when he was lebron's age:

02-03 LAL 82 82 41,5 (MPG) 0,451 0,383 0,843 1,3 5,6 6,9 (RPG) 5,9 (APG) 2,2 (SPG) 0,8 3,51 2,70 30,0 (PPG)

that's really impressive but people keep saying lebron will overtake kobe once he matures. isn't it obvious that kobe is simply the most complete player out there at the moment? stats don't always tell the whole story as kobe back then obviously wasn't as good as he is today even though he put up those lebron-like numbers...

People continually go on about LBJ overtaking Kobe once he matures because of how great he is right now. To be compared and in some cases, thought of as the better player than a guy in his basketball prime is a great accomplishment.

[Benedict_Boozer]

I found something interesting: these are kobe's stats of the 2002-2003 season when he was lebron's age:

02-03 LAL 82 82 41,5 (MPG) 0,451 0,383 0,843 1,3 5,6 6,9 (RPG) 5,9 (APG) 2,2 (SPG) 0,8 3,51 2,70 30,0 (PPG)

that's really impressive but people keep saying lebron will overtake kobe once he matures. isn't it obvious that kobe is simply the most complete player out there at the moment? stats don't always tell the whole story as kobe back then obviously wasn't as good as he is today even though he put up those lebron-like numbers...

Wasn't that the year Kobe bulked up? I actually thought he was ridiculous that year, as in MJ like. He put up 30ppg on a team WITH Shaq, that's incredible.

Taking into account defense, that might be one of his best overall seasons. He played 41.5 MPG in all 82 also, that's impressive.

[DubaLakers]

I would assume most of you are like myself, as far as your opinion of the race for the NBA MVP this year...The Championship is far more important, and KB24 finally got his MVP last year, and LBJ is now just stat boy, hard to argue against his numbers if we are talking just numbers. Well here's The Jet's two cents...

The MVP Race nears its final stretch, by Kenny Smith, Yahoo Sports

Whether it’s at the barbershop, the airport check-in counter or just about anywhere else I go these days, I usually hear one of two questions:

“Who is the best player in the NBA?”

Or …

“Who is the MVP?”

The two aren’t necessarily the same player, but it’s clear three names should be discussed in both debates: Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade. Let’s take a look at the cases for each.

Dwyane Wade

In my opinion, D-Wade is the most dynamic and fun player to watch in basketball. Give me a ticket to just one game this season, and I’m choosing the Miami Heat so I can watch Wade.

D-Wade has made the pull-back dribble between the legs his signature move. His ability to break down defenses might be unmatched. And with Shaquille O’Neal no longer at his side, Wade receives nearly all of the attention from opposing teams. Name another Heat player that commands a double team.

Of the three players, Wade has the least with which to work. Kobe has Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum, and one of the best benches in basketball. LeBron has Mo Williams and a team of savvy veterans who already have been through some wars with him.

D-Wade? Miami’s lack of experience – coaching staff included – sometimes holds him back.

D-Wade has made up for that with a flair for the dramatic that rates among the best in the league. Few players have made the number of pressure-packed shots he has hit this season.

LeBron James

LeBron is the best athlete we have ever seen in the NBA. No one can match his combination of size, speed, strength, athleticism and skill.

As a result, LeBron makes it easy for his teammates to get shots. If you are a spot-up shooter, you should want to make Cleveland your home. LeBron will extend your career by setting you up for wide-open looks.

If you’re a point guard and the defense is pressuring you, just give the ball to LeBron and he becomes your point forward. The Cavs continually put the ball in his hands at the top of the circle and ask him to make a play. On the break he is a runaway train, an instant assist if you pitch the ball ahead to him.

Post-up game not working? No problem. LeBron can go inside and draw fouls on the best big men. Need help on defense because your man is blowing by you? No problem. LeBron is quick enough and long enough to help, then recover on his own man.

If I were a free agent and had to pick a team, I’d sign with the Cavs. LeBron is the best teammate in basketball.

Kobe Bryant

If you’re talking about basketball assassins, you’re talking about Kobe Bryant. No player is more feared. Poll NBA players about whom they least like to guard, and most of them will probably say Kobe.

Which player is deadliest with the game on the line? Kobe. He not only lives to win, he enjoys demoralizing opponents. That edge is what separates him from LeBron and D-Wade. He’s the guy who kicked sand on your face at the beach.

Kobe almost has a Jordan-like aura among NBA players, and for good reason. He has more offensive skill then anyone in basketball. If Jordan is No. 1, Kobe is 1A. He isn’t Jordan to my generation, but Kobe is tops to the now generation. Believe that.

Kobe actually has more offensive moves than Jordan and shoots the 3-pointer slightly better. And who scored 81 points in a game? Not MJ.

This season, Kobe also has had the best supporting cast, by far. That has limited some of his numbers, but, still, no one takes on the challenge of the moment better than Kobe. Game-winning shots, guarding the best player – you name it and Kobe does it.

In my opinion, Kobe is the best player on the planet.

Final verdict

So if D-Wade is the most dynamic player, and LeBron is the best teammate, and Kobe is the most ruthless … then who is this season’s MVP?

The MVP doesn’t always go to the best player on the planet. If that was the case, Michael Jordan never would have given up the award. To me, the MVP is the player who squeezes every ounce of talent from his teammates, who pulls every victory possible from his team, who leads his team to new heights.

Sorry, Kobe. We predicted the Lakers would be this good. You really haven’t stolen five or six more wins than we expected. I also think the MVP has to go to a player on one of the four best teams. Sorry, D-Wade.

Whom does that leave? LeBron James. My choice for MVP.

[Verbal]

Nice find, DubaLakers.


Give Kobe a few days rest and see how quickly this conversation changes.