GAME#53 LAKERS VS SPURS 2/8/10 7:30PM TNT

[Danny Darko]

Nice I'd like to be added to the LO bandwagon and immediately removed when he has his next bad game.

[DubaLakers]

Deep you could win the lottery and find something negative about it .

LO has been playing beautifully lately (maybe the best of his career) it's hard for me to see a scenario where he should be riding much pine for very long. Same with Pau he should never sit, lol.

It's a good problem to have.

[Sedale Threatt]

Nice I'd like to be added to the LO bandwagon and immediately removed when he has his next bad game.

[Sedale Threatt]

For the record, I would still pull the trigger on this and move Odom into the starting lineup, but I'm under no illusion it will be a panacea.

It won't change the fact that we still don't have enough outside shooting.

It won't change the fact that our bench is terribly inconsistent.

It won't change the fact we have the worst starting PG in the league.

It won't change the fact that, starting or not, Odom and Gasol have still seen plenty of time in the fourth quarter together, and the results haven't always been great.

It won't change the fact we have too many ball-stoppers on offense.

It won't change the fact that our two 7-footers don't make the defensive impact you'd like.

And it definitely won't change the fact that our best player, after 14 years, still hasn't figured out how to master the line between aggression and facilitation.

[Joe Kleazy]

Well the problem with putting Drew on the bench is that you are saying it can't work right now and its not worth developing. I could understand that if we were in some sort of losing funk, but we've yet to be in any sort of extended drought or trouble playing Gasol/Bynum so why wouldn't we continue to force that development if thats where we want to be eventually? Why does Lamar HAVE to start to be consistent? He's a 10 year pro and you are saying he can't be effective as a 6th man?

Its regular season, and we're winning, there is no reason why we shouldn't continue to develop areas of strength. We know that Pau/Odom works well, we can go back to it at any time. Watch teh first quarter of the Celtics game, IF we can get Pau/Bynum going on all cylinders its unstoppable. Our versatility is what is going to make us the best team in the league. And like Deep is saying, Pau is claiming he's worn down, dude can't get himself ot dunk a 2 ft shot until he gets pissed for missing 3 or 4 chippies and you want him to start at the 5 for the rest of the season? Not a good idea imo. Give the young guy burn and force him to learn, he isn't Vujacek who's just gonna be a cast off eventually, he's a cornerstone of the franchise now. Experience and confidence are key for a young guy like Drew, vets like Pau and Odom shouldn't need it...

POINT. GAME. MATCH.

[sunsfever68]

Sedale Threatt, you should realize your team has what few teams have in the league. Multiple players who can take their man off the dribble at the end of a possession. Most teams don't have multiple guys who can do that. Yes you do lack outside shooting but last time I checked ya'll won the title this year and most likely will win it again this year with an improved andrew bynum. Who knows maybe even ron artest improves 2nd half of the season. Bottom line is there is really no one who poses a serious threat to the Lakers in the western conference. No one can matchup with the size up front but really it's the ability of Kobe, Odom, Gasol, Artest ability to break people down off the dribble and score. Gasol not so much in terms of the other three but for a big he can handle it a little bit he's deft in the post. I really don't see a team that will challenge you until the Cavs or Celtics(if they ever get their ish togther this season) maybe Orlando probably not in the Finals.

I'd think my suns have an outside shot of hanging with you in a series but this 5 game win streak I don't know how long it lasts we might trade Amare for Iguodala and Dalembert who knows. Lakers fans should feel lucky. Back to back titles are coming to La. in fact I smell a 3 peat. maybe a 4 peat.

[Sedale Threatt]

It's unquestionably a blessing, but it also has its drawbacks. At full health we've got four guys who kill any semblance of ball movement because their biggest strength is going one on one. Even Fish goes off the reservation way too often for a player of his caliber.

Do the benefits outweigh the negatives? Well, yeah. Obviously. But it's not an ideal situation by any means. More often than not it seems like we've got five guys playing independently of one another, which is the complete opposite of how the triangle -- or any good offense -- is supposed to run.

We have a fabulous record because we have a ton of talent, including an MVP candidate and two of the best bigs in the league. But I seriously wonder sometimes how well that talent fits together. Because I don't take anything for granted.

For example: Your statement about nobody threatening us in the West. In case you haven't noticed, Denver has completely kicked our ass in both meetings this year. Some people will blow that off because we beat them last year. I don't. There's an extremely fine line between winning the whole thing and coming in second, and we're not so good that we can even think about flaunting that line.

[DubaLakers]

Alright Sedale I'm gonna start reading your posts more often, "panecea" is todays word of the day. Sedale is giving these forgotten words air time and a fresh coat of paint, nice work ST.

UTH @ LAC tonight, UTH will be at home Wednesday vs the LAL after playing a back to back I like it. I hope the Clips bring it tonight! Kobe please take Wed off as well as the ASG. However, I'm sure he'll be there for Shanny's dunking debut. LaCrab AKA LaCoward AKA LaWilliams already checked out after he saw Shanny's dunk tape, LaWilliams didn't want any part of that.

[daddyfivestar]

I don't want to hear the lakers fans making excuses when you get crushed tonight.
Who wants to place a friendly wager?

[semi-sentient]

We have a fabulous record because we have a ton of talent, including an MVP candidate and two of the best bigs in the league. But I seriously wonder sometimes how well that talent fits together. Because I don't take anything for granted.

... and because we had a very easy schedule to start the season. Our 14-9 road record is pretty unimpressive.

Other people keep harping on our wonderful record to suggest that we're fine but the bottom line is that we've performed quite average against the playoff caliber teams which is all that really matters. Against the top 5 in each conference, we have a record of 8-9, which to me (and you I'm sure) is somewhat concerning.

Last year our record against those same caliber opponents was 20-8.

It goes beyond the standings and head-to-head match ups though. Watching this team play has been frustrating all season long and I don't see that improving (much) if we stick with the same formula. It's not a question of whether or not they'll just get it; it's a matter of the formula being wrong. You can't force 2+2=5, and unless Pau/Bynum suddenly become more athletic and Pau develops a consistent 20-footer then there's no reason to assume those two will dominate.

I get what people are saying about wearing Pau out early (which is somewhat of a shock considering how much time he's missed), but if we work the rotations properly then we wouldn't be forced to play people heavy minutes anyway.

[DubaLakers]

Semi how long have you lived in Texas? Must be hard with SAS, HOU, DAL thrown at yea everywhere you go. I know you are a longtime LAL fan, but all your Texas buddies must give you a hard time.

[semi-sentient]

Semi how long have you lived in Texas? Must be hard with SAS, HOU, DAL thrown at yea everywhere you go. I know you are a longtime LAL fan, but all your Texas buddies must give you a hard time.

I've lived in Texas since we moved from Germany when I was 6 years old (actually we lived at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas for 6 months first)... so almost 30 years. My mom is a Spurs fan, my sister a Rockets fan, and most of my SA buddies are Spurs/Rockets fans. A good friend of mine is from Ohio and he's a Cavs fan (always talking smack when we play CLE) and my roommates are both Suns fans (they're both from El Paso). I basically get it from all angles.

I don't know a single person who is a Mavs fan, oddly enough. My step father (the reason we moved here in the first place) was from San Diego and a Lakers fan, hence the reason that I became one.

[Sedale Threatt]

You've always got me, man.

[DEEP3CL]

Deep you could win the lottery and find something negative about it .

LO has been playing beautifully lately (maybe the best of his career) it's hard for me to see a scenario where he should be riding much pine for very long. Same with Pau he should never sit, lol.

It's a good problem to have.

Nah Dub I'd be good if I hit the lotto ! Oh yeah to most of the guys that have posted these last few pages, just letting you know I'm not taking any of this personal. All we're doing is just debating what we think works best for the team. Of course we're not going to see eye to eye with each other but it's not too many times that you do in a debate anyway. Sedale said it best by stating it's no clear cut answer to this.......the only thing that I strongly disagree with is thinking the problem will be solved in a trade of Drew.

Some here can want it( a trade) all they want, but reality is it ain't happening. Unless it's a deal Dr.Buss just simply couldn't refuse.

[DEEP3CL]

Problem is their core guys got old and used up fast, Parker is the youngest but international competition has taken his body. Same as it has for Ginobili and Duncan has been in regression for years.

How is Duncan in regression as you put it? I'll give you Manu, he's done - but show me evidence that TD has regressed, because I don't see it and the numbers don't support your uninformed theory.

True his numbers don't indicate his regression, it's his efficiency I'm getting at.Then again I never mentioned number either. Duncan isn't the work horse he use to be.

All that aside the Spurs have some issues, if they can't beat the Lakers when wounded they'll never beat them at full strength.

[microfib4thewin]

And offense is not why we won these two games, it was defense and rebounding. 43% is hardly efficient, but 12 offensive boards is sweet. We would have won both those games with Kobe in going 5-20 with that defense and rebounding. Best thing about Kobe being out isn't to show Kobe that he needs to shoot less, he knows he can win not shooting, its to show that guys need to STEP UP and make things happen.

I have to laugh. What you are saying is the same as, when Kobe is around, other guys don't want to have their fair share of shots. We are talking about Pau and Bynum, who have complained about needing touches at some point in the season, the chucking trio of Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher, and Shannon Brown, and guys like Walton and Sasha who are more or less offensive oriented players. If the team is passive by nature, then why did they step up immediately once Kobe is absent? Kobe is the one holding the team back, not the other way around. I get tired of people who constantly defend Kobe like he can do no wrong. If Kobe is willing to play within the team offense, the defense can always be as sharp as we have seen in the last couple of games. Kobe isn't playing with role players who are strictly in for defense, he's playing with great offensive talents, and if those other guys don't get involved in the offense, they can lose focus on defense.

If the problem stemmed from Kobe's teammates, then they would not have played so well right away. It would have taken games before they finish the adjustments, but they are playing great on both ends of the floor. Kobe should take less shots, but he's not going to learn.

[supaflash]

If the team is passive by nature, then why did they step up immediately once Kobe is absent? Kobe is the one holding the team back, not the other way around. I get tired of people who constantly defend Kobe like he can do no wrong. If Kobe is willing to play within the team offense, the defense can always be as sharp as we have seen in the last couple of games. .

You make me laugh because you are knocking Kobe and then in the same sentence condoning his teammates for not playing defense when they are not getting shots. So they have to get shots to rebound and play good defense?

The team stepped up because they had to, they couldn't stand around and wait for Kobe to bail them out. I'll never deny that sometimes Kobe shoots too much, but you are blind if you don't see that the team feeds into that much of the time. And if you follow the team more closely, you'd know they had a team meeting after the Denver loss to address defense and effort, so don't think just because they are getting to play without Kobe that they were suddenly excited to defend again. The whole team knew taht was a shoddy effort and it needed to be fixed.

And yes much of this team is passive. The biggest complainer, Pau, apparently he stepped up big without Kobe right? He got up 14 shots against an under sized Portland team without Bynum in the paint as well. And against the Spurs 20 shots, but take away all the taps he got volleyballing his own missed chippies and again hes right around 14-15 shots. Odom? 9 shots and 13 in starters mins? The only guys who really got more were Shannon, who is aggressive and took Kobe's mins and shots, and Artest who actually stepped up and made **** happen. So two games with out Kobe AND Bynum and our front line doesn't put up anything more then normal. What about when Kobe was in and defering? Charlotte, takes 12 shots 2 ft, no turnovers so not mny possesions used, Pau gets up 13. Boston where he passed away from doulbes for 2/3s of the game, Pau got up 9 shots and got constantly pushed off the blocks.

Go and look at Pau's career shot attempts, 13-14 as a main option 12-13 since joining LA. Similar story for Odom. They are who they are. And while you are at it why don't you take a good look at those FG% for both guys since joining Kobe. And the offensive boards... Please tll me now that Kobe is holding them back... Maybe he was holding Smush and Kwame back too?

Also why don' you go look at 82games.com and tell me who has the second highest +/- in the entire league? Yeah, Kobe is holding the team back.

I'm telling you look at your claimed chuckers Jordan and Brown. Yes they need to pass into the post more often, but do you ever see them looking to defer to Kobe, not being aggressive? They attack and they get shots, they are confident and they are producing.

Answer me this, is there a Laker in the top 6 that DOESN'T have the green light? Seriously? Bynum, obviously not. Fish? Have you seen some stuff he forces? Artest? Same thing. Truth is Pau, Odom, Artest, any of those guys can shot the ball any and every time they get it. Do they really want it? or are they just yappin their mouths??

[microfib4thewin]

When a player is forced to stand around on offense, then it's reasonable that they don't have as much focus on defense. However, this is not just about defense on the individual level, it's how they play defense as a team, and when you have a player who won't hesitate to jack up 30 shots a game, the team will struggle to find continuity on both ends of the floor. When the Lakers played as a team on offense, the team defense has come in place naturally.

Should Kobe's teammates take blame for the lack of improvement on D? Perhaps, but when they don't get any touches(and I do mean touches, not just shots) what kind of defense were you expecting? The 90s Bulls was the only exception where a single player has control on nearly half of his team's possessions and they still manage to play lock down defense. If you think this Laker team is supposed to be a defensive squad like those Bulls where guys are relentless defending anyone despite playing with the ultimate ballhogger, then I'd say your expectation are so unrealistic your complaint is no longer valid.

Then you talk about the team being unassertive. Imagine it's yourself playing, and you have Kobe Bryant yelling at the top of his lungs demanding the ball. In that kind of situation, no matter how confident you are you would most likely pass up the ball. Kobe isn't a very forgiving person and he constantly demands the ball when he doesn't have it. It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, what Kobe does on court and how he carries himself has an effect on his teammates. Farmar is the only one that doesn't seem the least intimidated because he's far too stubborn to listen, and as a result he usually plays horrible because he doesn't understand how to adjust the pace, dump the ball to the post, and shoot far too many jumpers despite his questionable shooting ability. The last thing I hope for is everyone else taking on Farmar's mentality of doing whatever they want.

tldr; Good team offense will lead to good team defense. Kobe should not demand the ball every time the Lakers have possession.

[Donald Kaufman]

True his numbers don't indicate his regression, it's his efficiency I'm getting at.Then again I never mentioned number either. Duncan isn't the work horse he use to be.

Duncan is 3rd in the league in PER, which is a measure of a player's efficiency.

All that aside the Spurs have some issues, if they can't beat the Lakers when wounded they'll never beat them at full strength.

Preaching to the choir.