Kobe right now is sad to watch

[dockingsched]

I never said it's not hurting the team, it probably is. Its just not a point I care to argue cause this team at its full potential is still bad. I just take issue with how you and others actually tried to defend/justify Kobe's shot taking. It's proven bad basketball that is yielding horrible results.

[Tonyism74]

Maybe not, but you're an idiot if you think it's as simple as Kobe shoots less=Others play better=Wins.

Maybe you're an idiot thinking that his shots are justified all the time. Bottom line is, if he shoots alot, fine...but try to balance it a bit by making the right decisions more often. Kobe shoots less, that means others are shooting more...if others are shooting more...there's more ball movement...more movement, better chemistry off and on the court. The Bulls have done this without a Kobe or a Rose for a couple seasons now.

How precious to be calling someone an idiot and citing the Bulls' offense without Rose which was the worst in the league for FG% and Offensive rating as an example.

I meant team chemistry when Rose went out twice...and they did pretty damn good without a bonafied star. Im saying, with a Kobe who is much better has no reason he cannot lift this team to some level of credibility. As for stats you could be right.

Before I forget, that Kilroy mod called me an idiot first.

[Slava]

Maybe you're an idiot thinking that his shots are justified all the time. Bottom line is, if he shoots alot, fine...but try to balance it a bit by making the right decisions more often. Kobe shoots less, that means others are shooting more...if others are shooting more...there's more ball movement...more movement, better chemistry off and on the court. The Bulls have done this without a Kobe or a Rose for a couple seasons now.

How precious to be calling someone an idiot and citing the Bulls' offense without Rose which was the worst in the league for FG% and Offensive rating as an example.

I meant team chemistry when Rose went out twice...and they did pretty damn good without a bonafied star. Im saying, with a Kobe who is much better has no reason he cannot lift this team to some level of credibility. As for stats you could be right.

Before I forget, that Kilroy mod called me an idiot first.

Worked out for the bulls because they had the personnel and coaching to be the league's best defense. Last season's team without Kobe had everything except talent and health and they were sharing the ball but you saw how that turned out in the end.

[Tonyism74]

Look at the stats...Boozer takes 14 shots...Hill takes 17..and Kobe takes that magic number: 18. very even distribution. The thing is, Kobe needs the team to get into rhythm. Jacking up shots gets them out of sync. Now, Kobe needs to let other guys take shots and not get so upset at them visibly on the court, when they miss or don't make the right play. A patient or facilitator Kobe is a much better Kobe than shoot first Kobe. At this point in his career, what separates him from Jordan and dare I say this...LeBron is that they made the right play more often.

I'm not saying Kobe is that guy, but this post got me thinking. You guys ever play pickup or league ball with a guy who may be good, but gets vocally negative on the court to the point where it seems to make everyone else tight? The guy doesn't have to be an out and out a-hole, just a little too strong and a little too negatively focused.

NBA players are obviously on a totally different level. But they are human also, and as social creatures are effected by others, pecking order, how well they work and trust each other, etc. So just wondering what kind of dynamics are in effect here.It may very well still be a feeling-out process.

The last 4-5 minutes of the game, on every inbounds Kobe would rush to get the ball so he could bring it up. I think that's more or less fine *at crunch time*, as long as he makes the pass if a guy is open. But then you also had Kobe talking publicly about wanting Jeremy Lin to step up, for example. So what happens if with 2 minutes in the game, Lin gets the inbounds pass and then waves Kobe off for whatever reason? (maybe he has a mismatch, or saw something last possession, etc.) Just curious.

It doesent even have to be the last two minutes..it could be the first two minutes of a game. If someone messes up, Kobe is going to be all up on them. Give em that stare, give em that disgusted look...throw his arms up. And I dare a moderator or poster deny this. This is where Kobe needs to chill. He is too great not to be a good leader. If he wants to win, the sacrifices he expects from others, is something team mates should be expecting from them..

Bottom line..Kobe is great, one of the best to ever do it. His intelligence is too high to now know that he is effing the chemistry. Stop with the excuses that these NBA players arent good enough as role players etc., Prove you want to win more than you want to be "that guy."

[Tonyism74]

I'm not saying Kobe is that guy, but this post got me thinking. You guys ever play pickup or league ball with a guy who may be good, but gets vocally negative on the court to the point where it seems to make everyone else tight? The guy doesn't have to be an out and out a-hole, just a little too strong and a little too negatively focused.

NBA players are obviously on a totally different level. But they are human also, and as social creatures are effected by others, pecking order, how well they work and trust each other, etc. So just wondering what kind of dynamics are in effect here.It may very well still be a feeling-out process.

The last 4-5 minutes of the game, on every inbounds Kobe would rush to get the ball so he could bring it up. I think that's more or less fine *at crunch time*, as long as he makes the pass if a guy is open. But then you also had Kobe talking publicly about wanting Jeremy Lin to step up, for example. So what happens if with 2 minutes in the game, Lin gets the inbounds pass and then waves Kobe off for whatever reason? (maybe he has a mismatch, or saw something last possession, etc.) Just curious.

Interesting thoughts. That's what I was thinking when Lin shot twice in a game. It's a habit formed by personality and background. Passive-aggression.

I couldnt agree with you more. This is where perhaps chemistry with Kobe would prove to be difficult. I would say blame goes both ways...but im harder on Kobe because he is more empowered to make a significant difference with more wide spread imapct.

[Kilroy]

I never said it's not hurting the team, it probably is. Its just not a point I care to argue cause this team at its full potential is still bad. I just take issue with how you and others actually tried to defend/justify Kobe's shot taking. It's proven bad basketball that is yielding horrible results.

The only justification I ever made for Kobe shooting a lot was that his team sucked... You agree with that, so I fail to see the problem.
I will also say that Kobe shooting a lot was proven bad basketball when he had prime Pau and LO on the team. With this team, it may be the only option we have.
And I still don't understand how you can say the team at full potential is still bad, while also saying Kobe's shooting is what's yielding these bad results.

[madmaxmedia]

I never said it's not hurting the team, it probably is. Its just not a point I care to argue cause this team at its full potential is still bad. I just take issue with how you and others actually tried to defend/justify Kobe's shot taking. It's proven bad basketball that is yielding horrible results.

The only justification I ever made for Kobe shooting a lot was that his team sucked... You agree with that, so I fail to see the problem.
I will also say that Kobe shooting a lot was proven bad basketball when he had prime Pau and LO on the team. With this team, it may be the only option we have.
And I still don't understand how you can say the team at full potential is still bad, while also saying Kobe's shooting is what's yielding these bad results.

...that if Kobe were a much better facilitator and leader, the Lakers would be...3-8???

I think everyone is actually just talking different sides of the same darn coin (not a very high value one.)

[Tonyism74]

I never said it's not hurting the team, it probably is. Its just not a point I care to argue cause this team at its full potential is still bad. I just take issue with how you and others actually tried to defend/justify Kobe's shot taking. It's proven bad basketball that is yielding horrible results.

The only justification I ever made for Kobe shooting a lot was that his team sucked... You agree with that, so I fail to see the problem.
I will also say that Kobe shooting a lot was proven bad basketball when he had prime Pau and LO on the team. With this team, it may be the only option we have.
And I still don't understand how you can say the team at full potential is still bad, while also saying Kobe's shooting is what's yielding these bad results.

Experienced online debater. Yes, the team sucks, and Kobe is part of that team. But it could be improved by Kobe if he made better plays as with everyone else. I put more emphasis on Kobe because he has the ball the most and he can make changes to his game to obtain maximum output with this "sorry" team.

Bottom line...my stance is that the ball needs to move more; Kobe needs to reduce his shots and get others more involved. You're stance is that Kobe shooting this much may be the only option we have.

[mcscotty]

Yet, at times it can be just so darn inspirational. Watching the old dog go out and lay it on the line with this team of misfits has its moments.

[realfung]

Agree, no matter how many points he can score, the team is not playing good bball.

[Mamba Venom]

I hope the title of this thread is edited soon. I am happy seeing Kobe back. Happy not sad. He is playing the best I have ever seen a 36 year old play. Inspirational. He is a few % down on his shot but he is coming off serious rust and 2 major (should have ended his career) injuries.

Blasphemy after 2 wins. Kobe and Young might play us out of that top 5 pick. Instead of competing next year if we get a max FA/trade for a max player to come to LA we might be in a long rebuild. Careful what you wish for.