Let's Steal Zach LaVine

[Vesper]

Wolves are a better team without Lavine..

Yet, we should trade for Lavine. Maybe, as a 6th man...

[Kilroy]

Just so we're clear... We're talking about trading young healthy prospects for a guy who's recovering from ACL reconstruction surgery?
A guy who relies heavily on his athleticism and explosiveness?
Am I the only one a little freaked out by that?

LaVine has missed time for a series of lower body injuries this season. His style of play is putting a hell of a lot of abuse on those joints... I think it's safe to say that he's going to have to modify his game post injury.

[madmaxmedia]

While I don't have half the enthusiasm for Levine that OP has, if the Lakers did I guess they could try to buy low. But I don't think the Wolves are in any need to rush, it's not like they were making the playoffs and need someone NOW. They're like the Lakers, 2 birds in the bush are better than a bird in the hand right now.

[Dr Aki]

you get the potato sack, i'll get the chloroform

[Sofa King]

Agree or disagree with miles, he provides depth to his posts thats not always common around here. I remember miles as one of the best posters around. The Phil Jackson of the board if you will.

[Vesper]

Our team needed Gary Harris.

BUT NO, everyone overrates our young players.

[lake_show]

Agree or disagree with miles, he provides depth to his posts thats not always common around here. I remember miles as one of the best posters around. The Phil Jackson of the board if you will.

Completely agree.

I remember reading miles' stuff when I first joined this board, and thinking of him as one of the top posters on this board.

I think all the losing over the last few years has split this board down the middle on a bunch of different subjects. Got mad repect for miles though. He's definitely provided a ton of depth over the years.

[PharmD]

You guys don't have the assets to trade for LaVine, assuming he walks again.

[KG_Wolves]

Give us that top 3 pick to get this serious, otherwise nah

[madmaxmedia]

Give us that top 3 pick to get this serious, otherwise nah

See, this is where we now try to convince you that his career is over and that he's undesirable, so you should trade him to us for a protected 2nd round draft pick!

[milesfides]

How else are we going to upgrade talent? You do it through the draft, but it's no guarantee we'll get a pick. Free agency has been abysmal for many years now.

The Lakers need to be thinking laterally, and part of that includes taking some risk.

But Zach does not rely so much on his athleticism. Most of his scoring comes from three-pointers (44% of all shots). He's a phenomenal dunker in the contest, but he doesn't force them in the game. He shoots 27% of his shots within three feet, which is consistent with his career average of 28%. In comparison: Derrick Rose takes 41% this season (career average 32%), Westbrook has a career average of %35, Bledsoe 33%, etc. In other words, Zach LaVine, at this point in his young career, isn't a guy who relies on his athleticism. Which makes sense, because he still hasn't filled out.

But he's close to being an elite three-point shooter. He has also played point guard, so he can also make plays and move the ball. He's a dynamic offensive player, even if he never reclaims that dunking ability, which he really never showed in the game anyways.

Defensively, he showed some good signs last year, earning praise from Sam Mitchell, but this year, the entire Wolves team has struggled learning Thibodeau's system. It would be unfair to pin that just on him. He also couldn't really be a defensive liability if Thibodeau was playing him so many minutes - Thibs literally could not take LaVine off the floor until the wheels started falling off (just after the New Year).

I would roll the dice on the kid because of his attitude and toughness. He's not a prima donna, his teammates love him, he doesn't shoot his team out of a game, and the dude tore his ACL and sucked it up during a meaningless regular season game because he wanted to keep playing.

He loves basketball, he loves competing, and he's gotten better every year. That's what I'm banking on - he'll still develop into a better player than we've seen.

If he didn't get hurt, he'd be untouchable. But he is hurt, and he won't be right until probably 2018. The Twolves are under some pressure, Glen Taylor publicly expressed disappointment in their record, threw a bit of shade at Thibs, and stated that they're going for the playoffs this season. To the Wolves' credit, Wiggins and Towns have been blowing up since LaVine went down.

But the Lakers can be patient, our priority needs to be on amassing talent. LaVine would be worth the gamble, because we don't have any prospects of an elite 2-guard. Jordan Clarkson can do a lot of similar things to LaVine (but unlike LaVine, hasn't gotten better every year) and a future first would be a good base for a deal.

I think there's a lot more to Zubac and Ingram's game, so I'm hoping for improvement. But we need to upgrade talent at every opportunity. Nothing's going to fall into our laps.

[andyhop]

The Twolves are under some pressure, Glen Taylor publicly expressed disappointment in their record, threw a bit of shade at Thibs, and stated that they're going for the playoffs this season. s.

Taylor also said they aren't going to make short term moves that distract from their long term aims.

There isn't a deal to be made because the Lakers would never agree to anything the Wolves would demand for him

[RingsDontLie]

I don't think Lavin is all star material worth trading for. He's okay, but to trade some of our okay guys for an okay guy doesn't make much sense. Our goal is to get better, and that isn't going to happen by getting a guy who is a downgrade from Lou Williams.

Pretty sure that Zubac and Ingram will be much better players than Lavine. D'angelo is already better than Lavine.

[milesfides]

Taylor also said they aren't going to make short term moves that distract from their long term aims.

And their long term plan is winning. Which is what the wolves haven't been doing with KAT, Wiggins, and Zach. Yet, Kat and Wiggins have absolutely been on fire since Zach went down. And more importantly, the wolves have overall been playing better, around .500.

So the question is, if the wolves continue to play better without LaVine, and kat and Wiggins continue to grow individually...then why should long term plans necessarily include Zach?

They shouldn't and they won't. Case in point: Portland Trailblazers: superstar Brandon Roy went down, Wesley Matthews replaced him, he went down, CJ McCollum replaced him.

Life always goes on, and I highly doubt the timberwolves are going to put the next season and a half on hold to wait for LaVine's recovery. There's also no guarantee LaVine would eventually or ever mesh with KAT and Wiggins. If the wolves can improve their team in the short and long run, they'd do it, like any other team in their situation.

In short, KAT and Wiggins are looking like superstars. LaVine won't be playing in a year and didn't mesh with them. Do the math.

There isn't a deal to be made because the Lakers would never agree to anything the Wolves would demand for him

Nobody knows what the value of a young player with a torn ACL is. There's unquestionable risk involved, on either side, which makes any certainty illogical.

Another young dynamic guard in Jordan Clarkson plus a future first? Why wouldn't that be attractive, it's a sure thing, rather than banking on the risk with lavine. They have KAT and Wiggins ready to go.

On the other hand, the Lakers can underwrite that risk because they have no sure superstar or all star. They have a bunch of young talent, and we don't know what exactly they're capable of, so we're in full evaluating mode.

So we're the perfect trading partner; we've got quality assets, but we're just a farm now. We can wait-and-see with LaVine.

[PharmD]

The Wolves were 8-3 right before Lavine got hurt. They were rolling and awesome. The reason they've struggled is because their only contributor not on a rookie contract is Ricky Rubio. They're very, very young.

[milesfides]

Look a little closer.

The Wolves were rolling because less Zach.

Before January, Zach was averaging 20+ ppg with a usage of 23, and close to the 50-40-90 elite scorer, with a top 10 fourth quarter scoring average.

Then for the next month, Zach becomes a 14 ppg, usage 19, and close to 40-30-70, and Wiggins and Towns overtake him in their roles down the stretch.

In other words, the difference between Gordon Hayward and Luol Deng.

What caused this sudden drop in his game? Simple. He was being run into the ground by Thibs (see Derrick Rose). Zach was the minutes leader in the league, he also declined the dunk contest - explicitly saying he wanted to rest. He also cited fatigue in a report on why his shot wasn't falling. His body was breaking down. He had a hip injury early in January, and wasn't the same. Many doctors and trainers, including Tim Grover, believe that ACL tears can happen due to overuse, and that's no coincidence that two very young guards under Thibs tore their ACL's.

Anyways, back to the subject:

Look at the Wolves' three game winning streak in January. LaVine scored 9, 4 and 11 points.

Also, in the three games that Zach LaVine did not play before his injury, the Wolves won all three games.

One thing is abundantly clear: the Wolves are a much better team when Zach doesn't suit up or he's limited.

In other words, he's not a great fit for that team - especially when healthy.

[larry14r]

Look a little closer.

The Wolves were rolling because less Zach.

Before January, Zach was averaging 20+ ppg with a usage of 23, and close to the 50-40-90 elite scorer, with a top 10 fourth quarter scoring average.

Then for the next month, Zach becomes a 14 ppg, usage 19, and close to 40-30-70, and Wiggins and Towns overtake him in their roles down the stretch.

In other words, the difference between Gordon Hayward and Luol Deng.

What caused this sudden drop in his game? Simple. He was being run into the ground by Thibs (see Derrick Rose). Zach was the minutes leader in the league, he also declined the dunk contest - explicitly saying he wanted to rest. He also cited fatigue in a report on why his shot wasn't falling. His body was breaking down. He had a hip injury early in January, and wasn't the same. Many doctors and trainers, including Tim Grover, believe that ACL tears can happen due to overuse, and that's no coincidence that two very young guards under Thibs tore their ACL's.

Anyways, back to the subject:

Look at the Wolves' three game winning streak in January. LaVine scored 9, 4 and 11 points.

Also, in the three games that Zach LaVine did not play before his injury, the Wolves won all three games.

One thing is abundantly clear: the Wolves are a much better team when Zach doesn't suit up or he's limited.

In other words, he's not a great fit for that team - especially when healthy.

So the Bleep what The Wolves are keeping him. End of discussion.

[john248]

That 6 game sample size.

[madmaxmedia]

Nobody knows what the value of a young player with a torn ACL is. There's unquestionable risk involved, on either side, which makes any certainty illogical.

Another young dynamic guard in Jordan Clarkson plus a future first? Why wouldn't that be attractive, it's a sure thing, rather than banking on the risk with lavine. They have KAT and Wiggins ready to go.

That wouldn't be what I consider a 'steal' for the Lakers. If the year of that future 1st wasn't potentially 5 years out due to prior trade obligations, that's a good deal for the TWolves IMO.