Greatest center

[Slink]

C'mon man... Hakeem was great!

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was THE GREATEST!!!!


If you don't want to believe go to a basketball reference site and compare the numbers. They really aren't even all that close.

But it,s more than just about the numbers. You can make the arguement Kareem had the better career, but Shaq was more dominant. How often was he doubled team compared to Shaq? The NBA had to bring in zone defense to let other teams have a chance at guarding him.

[Sedale Threatt]

Was just looking over Kareem's stats the other night...stunning. Career averages of 25 points per game, at nearly 56 percent from the floor, for nearly 1,600 games is absolutely insane. About the only complaints you can come up with are the fact that his defense/rebounding fell off pretty dramatically in his mid-30s, and his surliness. That's it. Otherwise, when you're talking about historic longevity like that, I will take that over peak any day of the week. And it's not like Kareem's peak wasn't great, either. He was pretty much the best player in basketball, hands down, for a full decade.

[LakersLegacy]

Kareem. He gets along w his teammates much better. Shaq had beef w more star teammates than just Kobe.

Kareem for longevity
Kareem more skilled
I think Kareem could Hakeem Shaq!

And I'm still a huge Shaq fan

[Landsberger]

Was just looking over Kareem's stats the other night...stunning. Career averages of 25 points per game, at nearly 56 percent from the floor, for nearly 1,600 games is absolutely insane. About the only complaints you can come up with are the fact that his defense/rebounding fell off pretty dramatically in his mid-30s, and his surliness. That's it. Otherwise, when you're talking about historic longevity like that, I will take that over peak any day of the week. And it's not like Kareem's peak wasn't great, either. He was pretty much the best player in basketball, hands down, for a full decade.

His rebounding dropped when he started playing with a 6'-9" guard who rebounded like no one at that position since Oscar. Not saying he was a dominant rebounder at that point by any means however the makeup of those teams and their style of play spread those boards around a lot more than the traditional teams of the 70's.

He was a lot like what the kid said he was in the movie Airplane.... when the playoffs came around he stepped it all up a notch or two... especially when the game slowed down and showtime was less effective.

[Pablo Novi]

Fairly certain maybe only one person on this forum is old enough to have seen prime Kareem... Even I didn't... Prime Kareem didn't play for the Lakers... Neither did prime Wilt...

If Wilt had better competition in his prime, I'm fairly certain this wouldn't even be a question... Wilt had maybe the best combination of athletic ability and skills of any Center ever... Maybe of any NBA player ever... He was like a 7' MJ...
He just never was forced to use more than about 40% of them... Kareem was the only player that ever pushed him one on one... Russell's super teams were a lot batter but Kareem and Wilt crushed Russell individually.

When people talk about "Prime Shaq" they're pretty much thinking of '00-'01 Shaq... And rightly so... For that season and maybe that season only, Shaq was maybe the most dominant NBA player since Wilt. But he never really reached that level of dominance before or after... He was still dominant as hell, but before that season, he was a little streaky and after that, he never put the effort in for a whole season again...

00-01 Shaq vs Bucks Kareem would have been a hell of a battle... Kareem was a hell of a lot stronger than he looked. I have no doubt his strength coupled with his superior skills would allow him to post Shaq and Skyhook over him at will. Especially if they played with 00-01 rules.
On the other hand, Shaq could wear him down and eventually it would probably be a dunk line...

But Kareem was a better basketball player. So I'd go with him. Kareem is probably the best all around basketball player the C position has ever seen. And I doubt will ever see anything like him again.

Shaq was a physical freak of nature and immovable force... We probably won't see anything like him again either, but like Wilt, he seemed to get a little bored with the grind.

I don't know about anybody else on this board being old enough to watch Kareem's whole career; but, in my case, I was ever so fortunate enough to watch the Harlem Globetrotters LIVE a number of times with this crazy-good Point Guard - what was his name, hmmm - oh yeah, Wilt! (I "followed" Wilt into the NBA the next year). I also got to see the great Bill Russell LIVE a number of times at Boston Gaaaaden. (The thing that impressed me the most; because it was such a surprise the first times it happened - the Celtics' fans screaming the "N" word at Russell!)

Mikan was THE MOST ERA-DOMINANT player ever - but his era was so weak; I actually call Wilt the most era-dominant. Wilt was truly WORLD-CLASS at several disciplines - a once-in-a-CENTURY FREAK of nature. He would have handled even Shaq.

Wilt bettered Bill Russell 7-2 by Regular Season ALL-NBA 1st-Team selections. (For this reason I don't have Russell in my GOAT Top 15.

Shaq (along with Kobe) would be the TWO GOAT candidates IF ONLY they had stayed together - GOAT BONE-HEADED MOVE!

My GOAT #1 is Kareem - 67% more Finals than MJ; circa 67% more WinShares; 67% more Great Years (as defined by ALL-League 1st-Team & 2nd-Team selections; and THE most unstoppable, unique and CLUTCH shot ever: the SkyHook.

Over Kareem's career, he faced more positional All-Time Greats than any other player - and pretty much dominated all of them (comparing the numbers of Great Years each had during their mutual playing days). He had his hardest times with the most muscular Centers like Bill Walton (who might have been GOAT if only he didn't have wheels of glass) and Moses Malone.

If KAJ had had MJ's super-positive reputation (he WAS a lousy interview!) then the GOAT discussion would be over.

[Spanish_Laker]

Shaq, and it's not even close. He wasn't the best talent and skill-wise, but he has been the most dominant inside force the world of basketball has ever seen. A Laker legend!

[AcecardZ]

Shaq, and it's not even close. He wasn't the best talent and skill-wise, but he has been the most dominant inside force the world of basketball has ever seen. A Laker legend!

There's more to the game of basketball than being able to physically dominate your opponents. Winning is what matters and KAJ was better at it for a longer period of time than Shaq was.

[XXBKXX]

Shaq, and it's not even close. He wasn't the best talent and skill-wise, but he has been the most dominant inside force the world of basketball has ever seen. A Laker legend!

There's more to the game of basketball than being able to physically dominate your opponents. Winning is what matters and KAJ was better at it for a longer period of time than Shaq was.

Sure.. if the question was, which center do you want for a 15 year career.. then yes it's Cap.. But if you ask, which center, in his prime, do you want for a game 7, or one playoff series, or one full year... Then the answer really should be a simple one -- devoid of any nostalgic old-man syndrome -- is Shaq.

There has not been one player.. regardless of position..that has had as big of an impact on an individual game than he has.. Again, they had to physically alter the rules to help neutralize him a bit so it was "fair" to his defenders..

What I loved about having a prime Shaq was that we would start every game by feeding him in the post and within two mins.. the opposing teams center was on the bench in foul trouble.. this was often their best rim protector.. once that occurred it was open season lanes for every slasher on our team.. Cap nor Hakeem nor anyone had that type of impact..

There really is no real gameplan for a prime shaq.. he would be the antithesis for the warriors -- they would have no choice but to change their lineup because of him. No way could the warriors try to be cute by starting Draymond at center with Shaq out there... Shaq would demoralize him...

Such a shame when you look back at it.. he was his own worst enemy.. if he had 1/2 of Kobe's work ethic he should have had about 7 rings and been in the conversation for the GOAT..


BK
-------------------
Lakers / Angels / Dolphins

[Hunter103]

Sure.. if the question was, which center do you want for a 15 year career.. then yes it's Cap.. But if you ask, which center, in his prime, do you want for a game 7, or one playoff series, or one full year... Then the answer really should be a simple one -- devoid of any nostalgic old-man syndrome -- is Shaq.

There has not been one player.. regardless of position..that has had as big of an impact on an individual game than he has.. Again, they had to physically alter the rules to help neutralize him a bit so it was "fair" to his defenders..

What I loved about having a prime Shaq was that we would start every game by feeding him in the post and within two mins.. the opposing teams center was on the bench in foul trouble.. this was often their best rim protector.. once that occurred it was open season lanes for every slasher on our team.. Cap nor Hakeem nor anyone had that type of impact..

There really is no real gameplan for a prime shaq.. he would be the antithesis for the warriors -- they would have no choice but to change their lineup because of him. No way could the warriors try to be cute by starting Draymond at center with Shaq out there... Shaq would demoralize him...

Such a shame when you look back at it.. he was his own worst enemy.. if he had 1/2 of Kobe's work ethic he should have had about 7 rings and been in the conversation for the GOAT..

On the other hand, Shaq was a liability in the final minutes of close games due to his abysmal free throw shooting. The gameplan was Hack-a-Shaq.