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What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point?

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What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point?

Dont resign. Trade before deadline.
12
12%
10 mil
8
8%
12.5 mil
23
24%
15 mil
29
30%
17.5 mil
15
15%
Max
10
10%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#101 » by TylersLakers » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:01 pm

I'd max him if I absolutely had to.

He shouldn't go anywhere.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#102 » by Laker1 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:16 am

TylersLakers wrote:I'd max him if I absolutely had to.

He shouldn't go anywhere.

Vv


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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#103 » by danfantastk32 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:13 am

I think the Lakers need to go up to $20 for the guy. Get's a little tough higher than that.....but 16-points, 8-boards in less than 27 minutes a game is pretty damn good. Not to mention the grit, and the little things. That guy could (should?) be playing another 50% per game....and he's still "on the up" in his career. 22ppg-11boards in 37-38 minutes.....seems absolutely reasonable. That's a 20-mil player with all the other things he does....limitations or no.

I like Kuz. I think he's probably the better player (or will be). Certainly the "more complete" player. But if you get any combo of Kawhi/PG/Lebron.....he's a lesser version of much of what they do. Randle does the battling. He's much more of a compliment to any duo of those 3 we sign. Kawhi / PG / Ingram / Kuzma is just too much of the same thing.

It's not easy to say. I freakin dig Kuzma. But Ball -PG -Ingram -Kawhi/Lebron -Randle is a much more 'rounded' team in my opinion. Randle may not be much of an outside threat.....but if Ball get's his crap together, that team would have ZERO issues with spreading the floor. If it were me.....I'd take a look at the possibility of using Kuzma as a way to get rid of Deng. 2-years is not perfect, but it's not horrible for a team trying to rebuild who's not thinking "next year". Kuz, Bryant, Clevelands pick, and our 2nd-rounder is alot of young talent to take for only 2-years of Deng. If I'm Sacramento.....Chicago.....Dallas.....Orlando - hell yeah I do that. Hell...we prob make that deal without giving up our first-rounder.

Like Kuz a ton....and if we were bringing in A-Davis, I go the other way with this. But Ball/PG/Kawhi/Ingram/Kuz seems like a really unbalanced squad.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#104 » by LALifer49 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:17 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:I think the Lakers need to go up to $20 for the guy. Get's a little tough higher than that.....but 16-points, 8-boards in less than 27 minutes a game is pretty damn good. Not to mention the grit, and the little things. That guy could (should?) be playing another 50% per game....and he's still "on the up" in his career. 22ppg-11boards in 37-38 minutes.....seems absolutely reasonable. That's a 20-mil player with all the other things he does....limitations or no.

I like Kuz. I think he's probably the better player (or will be). Certainly the "more complete" player. But if you get any combo of Kawhi/PG/Lebron.....he's a lesser version of much of what they do. Randle does the battling. He's much more of a compliment to any duo of those 3 we sign. Kawhi / PG / Ingram / Kuzma is just too much of the same thing.

It's not easy to say. I freakin dig Kuzma. But Ball -PG -Ingram -Kawhi/Lebron -Randle is a much more 'rounded' team in my opinion. Randle may not be much of an outside threat.....but if Ball get's his crap together, that team would have ZERO issues with spreading the floor. If it were me.....I'd take a look at the possibility of using Kuzma as a way to get rid of Deng. 2-years is not perfect, but it's not horrible for a team trying to rebuild who's not thinking "next year". Kuz, Bryant, Clevelands pick, and our 2nd-rounder is alot of young talent to take for only 2-years of Deng. If I'm Sacramento.....Chicago.....Dallas.....Orlando - hell yeah I do that. Hell...we prob make that deal without giving up our first-rounder.

Like Kuz a ton....and if we were bringing in A-Davis, I go the other way with this. But Ball/PG/Kawhi/Ingram/Kuz seems like a really unbalanced squad.


How are you just penciling in Kawhi while keeping Ball/Kuzma/Ingram in this scenario? Kawhi isn't a fa the only way we'd get him is by trade, unless you're talking 2019, and I'm not making my personnel decision a year in advance on the hail mary of signing the marquee fa of the summer for that year. Meanwhile, Randle does not fit better with Lebron than Kuz, Lebron needs shooters around him and a lane to operate. But both of these scenarios are playing for fit. If we sign neither Lebron nor Kawhi, then the ? of fit doesn't matter. So the way I see it we need to decide for 2018, if we make a trade for Kawhi that changes things, but as of now, if we signed Lebron Kuz would fit better, and just head to head I'll take Kuzma over Randle I think he has a higher ceiling, fits the league and has several more years of cheap contract giving us greater flexibility. You can't sign Randle to a 20 million deal if you want Kuzma to be a part of your future, he is too talented to come off the bench for years behind Randle, and vice versa. You need to make a choice at some point. If we can sign Randle to a cheap enough deal where its tradeable not as much of an issue, but at that price, you need to make a choice.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#105 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:52 am

danfantastk32 wrote:But if you get any combo of Kawhi/PG/Lebron.....he's a lesser version of much of what they do. Randle does the battling. He's much more of a compliment to any duo of those 3 we sign.


LALifer49 wrote:How are you just penciling in Kawhi while keeping Ball/Kuzma/Ingram in this scenario? Kawhi isn't a fa the only way we'd get him is by trade, unless you're talking 2019, and I'm not making my personnel decision a year in advance on the hail mary of signing the marquee fa of the summer for that year.


I didn't pencil in anything did I? Read my post please.
If we don;t get any free-agents...then we can sign all our guys however we want, can't we? That's obvious, and not worth mentioning. So if we sign any COMBO of the 3 (I mention that TWICE in that paragraph)....then I think Randle rounds the team out better. I Really wasn't delving into how we get any of the stars was I? This was about Randle, and his value to a team with (I'll try this again) any duo of the three big FA we're linked with at this moment.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#106 » by LALifer49 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:44 am

danfantastk32 wrote:
danfantastk32 wrote:But if you get any combo of Kawhi/PG/Lebron.....he's a lesser version of much of what they do. Randle does the battling. He's much more of a compliment to any duo of those 3 we sign.


LALifer49 wrote:How are you just penciling in Kawhi while keeping Ball/Kuzma/Ingram in this scenario? Kawhi isn't a fa the only way we'd get him is by trade, unless you're talking 2019, and I'm not making my personnel decision a year in advance on the hail mary of signing the marquee fa of the summer for that year.


I didn't pencil in anything did I? Read my post please.
If we don;t get any free-agents...then we can sign all our guys however we want, can't we? That's obvious, and not worth mentioning. So if we sign any COMBO of the 3 (I mention that TWICE in that paragraph)....then I think Randle rounds the team out better. I Really wasn't delving into how we get any of the stars was I? This was about Randle, and his value to a team with (I'll try this again) any duo of the three big FA we're linked with at this moment.


Post reeks of attitude. Anyways, you still fail to address many things in your post. You say if we sign any of these duos Randle fits better, but you say in a vaccuum you take Kuzma. Now that is the problem, if we don't acquire Kawhi or Lebron in 2018, but do acquire PG, then you are resigning Randle with the hopes of signing Kawhi...which is exactly what I said, and a strategy that is saying lets sign Randle in the hopes of signing the hottest fa on the market in 2019. If on the other hand we trade for Kawhi, then we aren't keeping Ingram/Ball we'll lose at least one,yet in your post you said a team of Ball/PG/Ingram/Lebron or Kawhi/Randle. The Kawhi scenario involves either a trade, in which case the lineup you posed won't be possible, or depending on signing him in fa, and your proposition of signing Randle ahead of time in preparation for that when in a vaccuum you'd value Kuzma more, don't agree with, can't leave all your hopes on that signing.

The other scenario of PG/Lebron, you stated you thought Randle fit better with Lebron than Kuzma. I disagree, Lebron needs shooters around him and not people taking up his driving lanes, but whatever, you're welcome to your opinion. I like how you say the 3 big FA we're linked with, and one of them isn't even a FA. That error says it all, like how you're penciling in Kawhi, who is in fact, not a FA.

Anyways, kindly check the attitude at the door with any rebuttal you raise, quite obnoxious.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#107 » by Spens1 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:47 am

TylersLakers wrote:I'd max him if I absolutely had to.

He shouldn't go anywhere.


yeah, lets mess up our cap situation for another 5 years why don't we.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#108 » by Showtime:Part2 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:15 pm

12mm per max. That’s already 10x what you pay kuzma over the next 3 years. Anything beyond is stupidity.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#109 » by TylersLakers » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:31 pm

Spens1 wrote:
TylersLakers wrote:I'd max him if I absolutely had to.

He shouldn't go anywhere.


yeah, lets mess up our cap situation for another 5 years why don't we.


On a 23 year old who's still improving and no where near his prime? Sure.

It would be a 4 year deal. At the end of it, he'd be going into his Year 28 season. This dude's only going to get better and better.

And no, it wouldn't mess up our cap. We'd still have a ton of cap flexibility. Including the ability to add a max this summer and (as long as we're careful with the money) a max player next off-season.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#110 » by danfantastk32 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:02 am

LALifer49 wrote:Anyways, kindly check the attitude at the door with any rebuttal you raise, quite obnoxious.


Well...next time digest the post, and don't accuse me of doing something I totally wasn't doing. It's frustrating.

If all we sign is PG....we can sign Randle no problem, will keep Kuz (something I'm more than fine with....in fact if you read other posts you will see that this is in fact the scenario I like best!) and will have A)an easier time of moving Deng next season when it's only 1 year, and B)if we have to stretch him, it's only 3 years, but actually gives us the best value. We would have a max spot, or damn close to it, for whatever we want.

Assuming Randle continues to grow (nothing is a guarantee, but it's a fairly safe assumption, I'm sure all would agree) and we are able to sign him in the 16-21mil range (I specifically said that over 20mil it get's trickier to commit) I think that that would be a fairly movable contract...if we did sign other guys that Kuzma played better with.

But we have to decide now. Who knows what free-agency will ultimately bring over the next couple years? I do know this though: our "best options" in FA right now are PG, Lebron, Kawhi, possibly Klay, and Boogie. I think Randle would be a better compliment to the team than Kuzma if we sign 4 of those 5 guys.

Read the paragraph I said in first post: if we sign any two of Lebron, Kawhi, or PG.....AND BALL gets his sh** together shooting-wise, then Randle is the much better fit. Ball, PG, Ingram, Kawhi/Lebron, Randle <------plenty of shooting there. We need a guy to go in and bang.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#111 » by SlimShady83 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:36 am

About 15$mil
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#112 » by KobeBryant24 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:25 pm

He deserves around 13-15
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#113 » by BBBKobe » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:10 pm

TylersLakers wrote:
Spens1 wrote:
TylersLakers wrote:I'd max him if I absolutely had to.

He shouldn't go anywhere.


yeah, lets mess up our cap situation for another 5 years why don't we.


On a 23 year old who's still improving and no where near his prime? Sure.

It would be a 4 year deal. At the end of it, he'd be going into his Year 28 season. This dude's only going to get better and better.

And no, it wouldn't mess up our cap. We'd still have a ton of cap flexibility. Including the ability to add a max this summer and (as long as we're careful with the money) a max player next off-season.



A four year deal would mess our cap up, especially with our rookie extensions going out starting next summer. Rob Pelinka isn't going to throw Randle a long term deal after we gave up a lot of promising talent to get rid of long term deals.

Not to mention, we still have $18 million going to a player who doesn't even play. Randle will get a one year deal, UNLESS we sign Lebron and PG. Even then, I could see a short term deal being sent his way.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#114 » by Ballerhogger » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:15 am

17mil would be the most
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#115 » by 3nnui » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:54 pm

I loved julius' effort this year and his physicality. However, I would not resign him unless he complemented the rest of our lineup. Part of the reason he did so well this year is that he either played alongside a stretch 5 or played 5 in a small ball lineup. It seemed when he was matched against an athletic big with length he was in a lot of trouble. I remember a game vs indiana at the end of the season, miles turner absolutely wrecked him at both ends of the floor.

If we get another stretch 5 or plan to play a lot with him at the 5, then I get signing him. But honestly, no more than 15 or so million. Julius had an opportunity this year, he got a lot of touches and made the most of them. But lets say we sign a free agent or two, then half of his touches go away. He is already not the most efficient player in the post, he turns the ball over way too much. I am also concerned that this high energy and better efficiency we saw this year may be the contract year exception rather than the rule with him.

All that being said, I commend his effort and energy. He has fight in him which is something we need. Signing him would not be the worst move, but it could limit our future options of acquiring championship caliber players. I am not sure that Julius is such a player given the way he matches up.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#116 » by TylersLakers » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:23 pm

BBBKobe wrote:
TylersLakers wrote:
Spens1 wrote:
yeah, lets mess up our cap situation for another 5 years why don't we.


On a 23 year old who's still improving and no where near his prime? Sure.

It would be a 4 year deal. At the end of it, he'd be going into his Year 28 season. This dude's only going to get better and better.

And no, it wouldn't mess up our cap. We'd still have a ton of cap flexibility. Including the ability to add a max this summer and (as long as we're careful with the money) a max player next off-season.



A four year deal would mess our cap up, especially with our rookie extensions going out starting next summer. Rob Pelinka isn't going to throw Randle a long term deal after we gave up a lot of promising talent to get rid of long term deals.

Not to mention, we still have $18 million going to a player who doesn't even play. Randle will get a one year deal, UNLESS we sign Lebron and PG. Even then, I could see a short term deal being sent his way.


Nah man, not at all.

Deng will be either stretched or traded this off-season. I just don't see a scenario where he's back next season. If he's stretched, his salary counts as 7.4M a season for the next 5 years. If he's traded, something will have to go with him.

Here's our roster next season:

Randle: 12.3M cap hold
Lonzo: 7.5M
Ingram: 5.8M
Kuzma: 1.7M
Hart: 1.7M
Bryant: 1.4M (non guaranteed)
1st rounder (Cleveland): 1.8M

Deng: 7.4M (stretched)

= 39.6M Total -- Salary cap is projected to be at $101M -- That gives us $58-60M in space after roster holds. If we combine that 1st rounder with Deng (along with other draft considerations), that creates an additional 9.2M in cap space. For arguments sake, let's say we're not able to move Deng and it's likely they'll stretch him. They'll keep him on the roster during free agency until they absolutely need the money.

- Sign Paul George ($30.3M max) = $27-29M in cap space remaining

As far as Randle, I don't believe he'll get a max deal. Cap space around the league is at a minimum and there's only a handful of teams who actually have the space to offer a max deal. Again, for arguments sake, let's say that the Dallas Mavericks come banging on his door on July 1st and offer him a 4 year extension starting at 20M a season. The Lakers don't have to match it right then and there. They can (and will/should) keep in contact with Randle's agent, Aaron Mintz (who is also Paul George's agent). Randle has said he wants to stay in LA. He reportedly would have signed an extension at his cap hold number of $12.4M a season before the extension deadline. I don't think that's going to happen in the summer unless there's no market for him in the summer and no offers come his way. Around January, I could have seen that dollar figure being his market. Now, I believe it's more the $15-18M range.

If Randle signs the offer sheet with Dallas, he has to wait until July 6th, which is the end of the moratorium. The Lakers will then have 48 hours to decide whether they want to match. So they don't have to make a decision on Randle until the 8th, which is very important. I would imagine the things they'll do during this time period are:

A) The status of LeBron James. If LeBron agrees, and you're unable to trade Deng, you would have to renounce Randle to make the salaries work. Doing this, after you've already signed George & LeBron is less painful considering the two stars you've brought in.

B) If LeBron doesn't come, you communicate with Aaron Mintz that you will match the offer, you just want to use the remaining space after George signs to maximize the roster. In a situation like that, Randle wouldn't accept the offer sheet with Dallas. He'll give the Lakers the time needed knowing he's got a 4 year extension starting at $20M in the bag. During that time, it gives the Lakers time to offer 1 year deals to guys like Lopez, KCP, Avery Bradley, Will Barton, IT, Bellinelli, Ilyasova, Redick, DeAndre Jordan, Danny Green, Trevor Ariza, Corey Joseph. Say for example with that remaining cap space, we sign Lopez ($10M), Joseph ($10M) and Ariza ($7M). Then we come back around, sign Randle.

Roster:

PG: Ball/ Joseph/ Brunson (Cle 1st)
SG: George/ Hart
SF: Ingram/ Ariza/
PF: Randle/ Kuzma/
C: Lopez/ Bryant/

We would still have a room exception of almost $5M to use as well as minimum deals to guys like Caruso, Wear, A Ingram, or other guys to fill the back half of the roster. We'd also have the Denver 2nd round pick.

------------------

Looking forward to the following year, the only players we'd have on the books are:

George: 31.8M
Randle: 21.0M
Ball: 8.8M
Ingram: 7.3M
Hart: 1.9M
Kuzma: 1.9M
Brunson: 1.8M
Deng: 7.4M (stretch)

Total Salary = $81.9M -- Recent cap projections a couple days ago came out as $108M. That would give us 24-26M to spend in 2019. That's not exactly enough for a max, but with a Brunson + Hart trade, it gives us enough for a max like Kawhi, Klay, Butler, etc. If we manage to trade Deng this summer, it gives us 32-34M. Even if we don't get those big names, we HAVE to use the cap space that summer on good players who fit because starting in 2010, Ingram is extension eligible, Ball's salary jumps to over $11M, George & Randle continue to climb.

------------------

All in all, the only way our flexibility is killed is if the front office is stupid and outside of Randle & George, goes crazy and signs B & C level free agents to multi-year deals at big money. I don't think there's anything wrong with offering KCP or Will Barton a 2-3 year deal at 10-12M a season, because those are deals that are tradeable in the future if we need to make the space and we can also get assets back in those scenarios. Teams in 2019 & 2020 are going to have huge amounts of cap space again and there's not enough major free agents for everyone to grab. There will be a fringe playoff team who doesn't get a max player and would love a KCP or Barton on a 1 or 2 year deal.

There's also so many variable that we don't know and won't know until the draft and free agency arrives. What about a Kawhi trade? A Deng trade after the draft, Randle's actual number, etc. What if George doesn't sign and we get no max players? Then of course we'll match any offer that comes Randle's way.

Personally, my dream off-season is signing George at a max deal. Re-signing Randle to a 4 year deal starting at $15M.

Before the draft, trading Deng, 2018 1st (Cleveland), 2018 2nd rounder, cash to the Bulls for a future 2nd round pick, heavily protected. Of course, the deal wouldn't become official until after the draft because the Bulls don't have the cap space to make the deal now.

After the draft, trading Ingram, Hart, Zubac, 2019 1st rounder for a (healthy) Kawhi Leonard. As is the case with the Deng trade, this would be agreed upon before the draft, completed after the draft. Because "we" made the 2018 draft selection for the Bulls, the 2019 pick would be available to be traded.

Our roster:

George: 30.3M
Kawhi: 21M
Randle: 15M
Ball: 7.4M
Kuzma: 1.7M
Bryant: 1.4M

- 25 million in cap space remains, sign Brook Lopez to a 1 year deal deal worth 8M.
- Sign Will Barton to a 2 year deal with a team option on the 3rd starting at 12M.
- Sign Ian Clark, PG to a 2 year deal starting at 5M. Team option on the 2nd year.
- Trevor Ariza with the room exception
- Caruso, Wear, Afflalo, Frye, Tarik Black to minimum deals
- Andre Ingram: 2 way deal

PG: Ball/ Clark/ Caruso
SG: Kawhi/ Barton/ Afflalo
SF: George/ Ariza/ A. Ingram (2 way)
PF: Randle/ Kuzma/ Frye/ Wear
C: Lopez/ Bryant/ Black

That line-up is a Championship contender, in my opinion. Gives us a 5-7 year window to be seriously competitive. And as the years go on Ball, Kuzma, Randle will get better and better. In the 20-21 season, we'd have potential cap space and Ball (23), Kuzma (25), Randle (26), Kawhi (29), George (30).
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#117 » by BBBKobe » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:12 pm

I appreciate the thought out post, you make some points. I just can’t justify extending Randle for more than a year. I mean.. we were on the phone trying to trade him on the day of the trade deadline. This was with his good performances as well..

I’m in the boat that Randle can do some good for this team, but how much is the question. He had some really good nights, but hes also shown he can turn into stone real quick. You must also consider his performance based on the fact that it’s his contract year. Lots of players ball out in their contract year and then get a big contract before turning back into crap.

Rob seems sold on staying as flexible as possible if we strike out this year. I’d honestly be shocked if we signed anyone to a long term deal that isn’t currently a superstar. 2019 has some talent and we’ll need every penny possible to make a run in that year.


Also, I’m convinced Deng will get traded. Highly doubt we waive him. He can be moved this summer, we’ll just lose some picks and some cash.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#118 » by Landsberger » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:35 pm

BBBKobe wrote:I’m in the boat that Randle can do some good for this team, but how much is the question. He had some really good nights, but hes also shown he can turn into stone real quick. You must also consider his performance based on the fact that it’s his contract year. Lots of players ball out in their contract year and then get a big contract before turning back into crap.


I'd add that there is a risk of paying big for a player who was one of the better players on a bad team big money. If ownership gets their plan enacted we will have a much different team in place. One where Randle is not the focus of the offense and probably would not get the clear side plays called nearly as often. My guess is that what he does well would be done far less and what he doesn't do well will become much more impactful.

To me, it's all about balance on the floor. I hope the FO builds the team with that in mind over just trying to keep "our" players.
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#119 » by stan francisco » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:33 am

Anyone who wants to pay $30M for PG13 should have no problem paying Randle $20M, based on production and impact.

I think $18M would be my pain threshold for Randle.

And I don’t really want PG13 here, personally. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should sign an over priced player. I’d rather give Hart the minutes next season and add Klay the following summer.
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CTR: AD / Hayes / Wood

Modern era NBA titles:
LAL 11, CHI 6, SAS 5, BOS 5, GSW 4
danfantastk32
Assistant Coach
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Re: What is the most you'd give/match Randle per season at this point? 

Post#120 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:29 am

stan francisco wrote:I’d rather give Hart the minutes next season and add Klay the following summer.


I'm with you....and I'm sure a large portion agrees with Klay over PG. But unless you know something....there's a certain 'quality' to the guy sitting right in front of you.

The best ability is availability.....and all that good stuff.

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