Extend Kuzma, Caruso and THT

DanishLakerFan · Post #1 » by **DanishLakerFan** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:05 am

The 20/21 roster is more or less set (although i would like them to find a back-up 1 and 5 and potentially upgrade the backup 3).

Also, they just signed the AD/LBJ contracts and are in a great position to retain guys like Schroeder (bird rights), Morris (early bird) and even Montrezl and Wes. With all this the chance to sign a max-level player in free agency to pair with Lebron and AD is pretty small at this point and even if we shed everyone other than LBJ and AD, we're only able to offer 20M. Ish.

For these reasons i think they should consider extending some of the 2021 FAs now at relatively cap friendly deals rather than potentially risk losing them for nothing or having to overpay to keep them.

What do you guys think?

Post #2 » by **Slava** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:46 am

Definitely, I think Caruso's price has taken a hike but there's a chance you could tie down Kuz to a team friendly deal while his value is still low.

SlimShady83 · Post #3 » by **SlimShady83** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 10:30 am

Give the "White Mamba" a max contract he deserves it

I've always liked him and King Kuz, but with King Kuz there is plenty out there like him for less $$$ IMO I could be wrong with that one, haven't really followed NBA for a couple years

DanishLakerFan · Post #4 » by **DanishLakerFan** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 11:49 am

Not sure exactly what their market value is, but i based on the deals given to other players this offseason as well as the 5yr market value projection on fivethirtyeigh, i would put them like this:

Kuzma. When a guy with similar value like Dario Saric get 3yrs/27M i would say Kuz should be in the same ballpark i.e. 8-10M range at the most. FiveTHirtyEight estimate his 5yr value at 40M (8M/yr). He is a RFA so he does has some leverage since LA really cant replace him, but he's not that attractive a free agent. I'd put him at 4yrs/36M with last year, when Lebron is off the books, being a team option.

Caruso. Between Caruso and Kuzma i think Caruso is the best player and the guy that's most important to keep. But the market for defensive roleplaying guards that really cant shoot or create isn't all that good. Bazemore and Reggie Jackson signes for the min. Khris Dunn - who is a very similar player - got 2yrs/10M. Jordan Clarkson got 4yrs/50M. Joe Harris - an offensive roleplaying guard got 4yrs/75M. WTF!?! In my opinion, with the restrictions we have i would give him the same as Kuz. 4yrs/36M with last year being a TO.

Is this off?

MarxyLebronist · Post #5 » by **MarxyLebronist** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 2:51 pm

Kuzma is definitely aimed higher than MLE. Trade him now.

MarxyLebronist · Post #6 » by **MarxyLebronist** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 3:40 pm

I'm rusty on CBA stuff and it's got some even lamer restrictions lately to try to keep great players tied down and help weak markets compete with LA, etc. (and the snarky Pay Area nerds are all about these intricacies and technicalities since they just hate anyone else succeeding, even though they're about as spoiled as it gets lol). Anyway: don't the MLE and BAE come back each year? Or is there an off-year after you hit certain salary levels or use them in one year? So provided they have rights on Schröder and don't have to worry about retaining him against competing offers, they can get others after current deals on vets expire? Seems like the right avenue for the kinds of rotation pieces a team with two top-5 players would need year to year.

kblo247 · Post #7 » by **kblo247** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 3:50 pm

If I’m not mistaken they can’t offer Caruso an extension. They have his rights but I think they are limited in that because of his deal being converted from 2 way to regular last time he signed.

THT will probably get a low deal as a restricted guy who plays 11th man and catches minutes when Marc or AD or Bron skip a game or someone inevitably gets sick.

As for Kuz, he’s go get his extension but I don’t know if i was him if I would agree to one yet. I would probably say get your camp in since he didn’t get a training camp last year. He also was hurt and had his position changed last year, so I would say get your role locked in. Play well and then negotiate from strength

kblo247 · Post #8 » by **kblo247** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 3:53 pm

MarxyLebronist wrote:I'm rusty on CBA stuff and it's got some even lamer restrictions lately to try to keep great players tied down and help weak markets compete with LA, etc. (and the snarky Pay Area nerds are all about these intricacies and technicalities since they just hate anyone else succeeding, even though they're about as spoiled as it gets lol). Anyway: don't the MLE and BAE come back each year? Or is there an off-year after you hit certain salary levels or use them in one year? So provided they have rights on Schröder and don't have to worry about retaining him against competing offers, they can get others after current deals on vets expire? Seems like the right avenue for the kinds of rotation pieces a team with two top-5 players would need year to year.

BAE is every other year because it’s bi-annual. Wes Matthews got it

We get the tax mle this next off season for 5.5mil.

We used the room exemption last year for Bradley because our salary was low because we dropped everyone and traded them and their rights to do the AD trade and chase Kawhi.

We used the full mid level this year because we kept people rights and put ourself close to the hard cap to secure Trez

MarxyLebronist · Post #9 » by **MarxyLebronist** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 4:33 pm

Let's see all those "It's a Business" folks go all-out deregulation. State the max salaries for players based upon current year calculations but no cap moving forward and no luxury tax socialism lol. If revenue goes up, max salaries can go up, too. But if a team wants to pay 15 max salaries... just let them and see where they end up.

stan francisco · Post #10 » by **stan francisco** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 6:04 pm

Keep Caruso long term, convince him not to leave for the bigger money and drift like fir instance Fisher did.

THT has the highest ceiling of the three but hasn’t proven anything yet. Prognosticate his growth over the next three years, sign a deal that pays fairly according to that. Third year could be TO or PO depending on pay.

Kuzma could’ve and should’ve broken out this year. If him, I’d ask for a 1+1 with PO and a decent $ amount, then go for big money in one or two years.

Post #11 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 6:10 pm

MarxyLebronist wrote:Kuzma is definitely aimed higher than MLE. Trade him now.

the problem with trading him now is that (whether you like it or not) Kuz is worth more than his contract. a player of his caliber should be getting paid around 8 to 10 mil a year, he is only getting paid around 3 and change now. that makes him hard to trade for an upgrade. we need to extend him and pay him his value then trade him for any holes we may have in our roster in the future.

TheHartBreakKid · Post #12 » by **TheHartBreakKid** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:06 pm

As others mentioned I'm not sure if Caruso is eligible for an extension. I think we'll have Carusos full bird rights to resign him this off season. Regarding Kuzma, I believe what he'll want in an extension will be too high to pay right now. Even if we aren't going to play the FA game, we still need to worry about the tax and qualifying for the Full MLE.

We have 3 options with Kuzma:

1. Trade him- The ideal option. Obviously depends on what you can get for him.
2. Let him hit RFA and see if you choose to match- not ideal as you can lose him for nothing, but you would in theory let the market decide his value. However, I say in theory because some team might over pay him just to put the Lakers in a tough spot
3. Extend him- My least favorite option, but obviously depends on his contract; I don't see him extending a team friend deal, but who knows

My ideal situation:

Kuzma get's some more minutes with AD and Lebron resting earlier in the season, improving his raw numbers as a result. Combined with some individual progress in his efficiency (3pt % being the most important), his value at the deadline would ideally be higher than it is right now. Besides, by that point we would really know what type of player we want back. As of right now looking at the depth chart I'm not sure where we need the most help. We need another big body, but that's the least important thing come playoff time. We could definitely use another wing or another playmaker, but we certainly have more than enough capable options and flexibility in those spots right now with decent depth.
Come deadline time, we'll have a better idea regarding some uncertainties;

1. Injuries, obviously can change everything for our depth in any role.
2. How well Schroder adjusts. Is he going to be a 33 minute type player who can fill that Bradley Role playing with the starters AND fill that Rondo role?
3. Will 35 year old Matthews be able to give you 20-24 quality minutes, at around the same level that DG did last year? Or is he taking a step back? Will THT improve to a point where he could be a reliable rotation piece?

Gerald3Wallace · Post #13 » by **Gerald3Wallace** » Fri Dec 4, 2020 10:00 pm

IAMRANDYMARSH wrote:Not sure exactly what their market value is, but i based on the deals given to other players this offseason as well as the 5yr market value projection on fivethirtyeigh, i would put them like this:

Kuzma. When a guy with similar value like Dario Saric get 3yrs/27M i would say Kuz should be in the same ballpark i.e. 8-10M range at the most. FiveTHirtyEight estimate his 5yr value at 40M (8M/yr). He is a RFA so he does has some leverage since LA really cant replace him, but he's not that attractive a free agent. I'd put him at 4yrs/36M with last year, when Lebron is off the books, being a team option.

Caruso. Between Caruso and Kuzma i think Caruso is the best player and the guy that's most important to keep. But the market for defensive roleplaying guards that really cant shoot or create isn't all that good. Bazemore and Reggie Jackson signes for the min. Khris Dunn - who is a very similar player - got 2yrs/10M. Jordan Clarkson got 4yrs/50M. Joe Harris - an offensive roleplaying guard got 4yrs/75M. WTF!?! In my opinion, with the restrictions we have i would give him the same as Kuz. 4yrs/36M with last year being a TO.

Is this off?

Well, those guys kind of excel at something. Clarkson showed consistently at scoring off the bench. Joe Harris can shoot the ball.

I like Kuz, but he doesn’t do anything great.

Beethoven · Post #14 » by **Beethoven** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 1:06 am

Caruso will be retiring his jersey here.

Maybe not.

Post #15 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 5:06 am

iamworthy · Post #16 » by **iamworthy** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 2:08 pm

I'd be surprised if AD signed another extension with us after this deal was up.

MarxyLebronist · Post #17 » by **MarxyLebronist** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 3:24 pm

Looks like there's nothing to do this season now but wait and see if someone wants to pay Kuzma what his agent will push for, elsewhere, and hope some sort of useful element- draft picks, player, trade exception- can come back in return or just cut bait.
The stats should be great in the extended garbage time this season will feature, but then other teams should know that and factor it in as well. Always someone willing to overpay/try to steal players as their primary role in the league (see: Travis Schlenk, who really ought to start winning some actual games at some point).

LakersSoul · Post #18 » by **LakersSoul** » Mon Dec 7, 2020 8:42 am

Pelinka signed the 2 stars in Bron and Brow.

As for Caruso, THT and Kuzma, we should wait towards the end of the season to sign them. Lakers have to be wise about depth and not over spend.

I would like the Lakers to resign Kief, Schroder and Trez. Out of these 6 players listed, we might be only able to extend 3-4 of them at most. We should make sure Kuzma ups his game to warrant it. The league is full of scorers. Kuzma needs to should 2 way potential growth.

THT needs to show ability to excel in his growing role and minutes. Caruso is a no-brained but how much?? I would love to sign him to 3/27.

Post #19 » by **Slava** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 10:44 am

The Monte Morris deal is a good benchmark for both Caruso and Kuzma.

lazybatman · Post #20 » by **lazybatman** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:16 pm

I think all of the Lakers guards / wings are gonna benefit a lot with the improved floor spacing, thanks to Gasol.

Casuso - I am pretty sure Caruso's gonna have a great season, building on the confidence and ball handling ability he started to unlock during the playoffs. Tie him down now, before his value spins out of control. $35-40m/5Y would be a steal.

THT - Let's see what the hype's all about when he plays. Don't we have another year after 2021 to extend him?

Kuz - He's out!!

He's 26, and he's closer to being Alfonso McKinnie than Davis Bertans in a couple of years. Extremely inefficient offensively and below average defensively, despite a hell of an effort he put up last year. Role players who can't shoot 36-37% 3FG are of little value, unless you're Montrez Harrell.

Offensively - 7th / 8th option after Bron, AD, KCP, Schroeder, Trez and Gasol.
Defensively and overall - he's 9th / 10th below Wes, Caruso.

I'm glad Pelinka mentioned that they were planning to extend Kuz now. By now, Pelinka already knows Kuz's expected number, to be able to make an informed decision about his value to the team. If I were Pelinka, I'd ask Vogel to feature him on offense in the first half of the season, stealing from Lebron / AD's minutes -

- Extend him now @ under 10m/Y for a 3-4 year deal. Trade him next year as we're pretty well set this year
- Flip him for a useful piece like PJ Tucker