Coaching and GM Changes - Update: Vogel fired, Pelinka next?

[tamaraw08]

Good for Kidd to publicly acknowledge Vogel's value!

It was only two season's ago that Vogel had coached the Lakers to a championship; and yet, he suddenly dropped off in value as a coach? It would be curious to know how much input Frank Vogel had in construction of this past season's roster (or was it really a LeBron-Klutch created roster?).

Will the public ever know who made the decision to fire Vogel? Was it a front office decision or was it driven by the players (similar to Magic pushing Westhead out)?

Because of the influence that LeBron has in the league combined with his leverage to influence what the Lakers do in its hiring-and-firing of its coaches, the league might just allow for LeBron to become the Lakers' player-coach and upon retirement give LeBron, Klutch and its Keiretsu the opportunity to purchase the Lakers and fulfill the league's dual goal of more minority ownership representation and planting its flag in Las Vegas.

Would LeBron be good player-coach for the Lakers? Hard to say; however, it may be inevitable as we see how Jeanie and her sewing group find it more important to "entertain" the fanbase with more "side-show" milestones (similar to LeBron breaking the NBA scoring record while wearing a Laker uniform) than building a winning product on the court and a stable and enduring organizational structure.

The firing of Vogel was misguided at best. I've said many times and I maintain this was a mistake. There aren't any better options available; just about everyone knows this. Is Stotts really an upgrade? I've yet to hear a convincing argument in favor of Stotts as an upgrade. Sure he probably has a better mind on offense...but so what? The same people pushing for Stotts will be complaining about the lack of defense in no time. I've also heard we should hire Stotts and hire a defensive minded coach. Would it not have been better to keep Vogel and hire an offensive minded coach. After all, Vogel has proven he's capable of coaching a championship caliber team. It pains me to admit i've lost so much interest in this franchise. We have a bunch of buffoons running our team.

Firing Vogel in a vacuum, isn't necessarily the problem, or the symptom of a bigger problem... The issue is that he was apparently fired because he couldn't figure out how to maximize Westbrook... That's a huge red-flag regarding the organization...
I mean, I get it... Someone had to take the fall, and Vogel wasn't perfect, but the fact that the FO thinks Lakers fans are going to accept that particular excuse, is a big example of how out of touch they are...

If you're choosing between Westbrook and Vogel, the healthy org chooses Vogel every single time...

I like Stotts but I did say that I have doubts that his system or any system for that matter will work with Westbrook. Yes, I did like the idea of hiring a good assistant like Steve Clifford but it's not a guarantee that they will solve their problems.
Ultimately Head coaches decides who play the bulk of the minutes and how much practice time and how much time they focus on specific strategies based on their film sessions. Mike D"Antoni would prioritize practicing and diagramming schemes on the offense and would leave very little time to talk about defense. It's kind of the opposite with Vogel who would dedicate most of his attention on defense and would play his favorite defenders and would bench shooters like Ellington on the bench. Frank looked GREAT with his very good defenders and a rested Lebron and AD (3-4 months covid stoppage). They were laser focused, unified AND healthy during the bubble. They still looked good the season after, relying on defenders like Caruso,KCP, Kuz, Schroder etc but Klutch and Rob just decided they need to ship those players and let Alex walk and just replace them with non defending shooters. Rob probably realized his grave mistake after training camp and quickly hired Bradley, plucked Stanley Johnson and Gabriel during the season as band aids.
Having said all that, I think the FO would be incredibly STUPID to blame Frank for his inability to maximize Russ because it was not Vogel's fault that Westbrook has all of a sudden forgot to make lay ups etc. I mean the guy just had a rapid decline and no coach can just change that.

[crazyeights]

Reading the last few pages and it’s like taking crazy pills—did we watch the same season?

Vogel was terrible. Full stop.

He left so many wins on the board. The team played like they were trying to get him fired all season long. From pre-season to the end.

Missing the weakass play-in game with LeBron James on your team should be enough. I don’t care if he only played 42 games (he played 56).

The thing that drives me nuts is we clearly didn’t want him and then built a team that didn’t suit his strengths. So instead of just not retaining him over the summer, or replacing him mid season, we let him waste one of our last remaining shots at a puncher’s chance. To me, that is the gravest sin.

It revealed the worst weakness a FO can show: feebleness.

This team was super flawed, but we still would be a tough out in series basketball with Lebron James playing the level he did. For most of the year our point differential was like 1 field goal. Change coaches earlier, and improved chemistry could easily have overcome that.

Our reverence for Vogel as an organization cost us maybe LeBron’s last great season—for all we know. To me that’s inexcusable. He’s a very limited coach, and once you lock yourselves in to a flawed 3 star squad then there’s only so much you can change. Coach had to go.

It’s pretty straightforward. You guys are missing the bigger picture.

[sonnyhill]

While most on this thread feel that Vogel was the scapegoat for poor roster construction, the topic of the thread also asks if Pelinka is the next head to roll?

If Jeanie should gives Pelinka his pink slip, how about really thinking "outside-of-the-box" and brining in Rich Paul to run the front office? This move might actually give the Lakers the inside track on acquiring talent and give Rich Paul some "real-life" experience in running a franchise before LeBron retires and becomes a franchise owner, perhaps even the Lakers, himself.

[myersia]

While most on this thread feel that Vogel was the scapegoat for poor roster construction, the topic of the thread also asks if Pelinka is the next head to roll?

If Jeanie should gives Pelinka his pink slip, how about really thinking "outside-of-the-box" and brining in Rich Paul to run the front office? This move might actually give the Lakers the inside track on acquiring talent and give Rich Paul some "real-life" experience in running a franchise before LeBron retires and becomes a franchise owner, perhaps even the Lakers, himself.

Eff that. I am sick of Klutch. I wish they would leave. All of them.

[sonnyhill]

While most on this thread feel that Vogel was the scapegoat for poor roster construction, the topic of the thread also asks if Pelinka is the next head to roll?

If Jeanie should gives Pelinka his pink slip, how about really thinking "outside-of-the-box" and brining in Rich Paul to run the front office? This move might actually give the Lakers the inside track on acquiring talent and give Rich Paul some "real-life" experience in running a franchise before LeBron retires and becomes a franchise owner, perhaps even the Lakers, himself.

Eff that. I am sick of Klutch. I wish they would leave. All of them.

Yet, it was Klutch which brought to the Lakers LeBron and helped to make the deal to bring AD, cornerstones of the team's most recent "bubble 'Summer Camp'" championship.

Rich Paul, not Klutch, would be replacing Pelinka, and Rich Paul would be bringing to the Lakers his and Klutch's rolodex of player and other GM relationships. So, short-term, this might be a great hire for the Lakers.

Longer term, Laker fans need to be rescued from Jeanie and her sewing club's cheap ineptness.

When will the Jeanie-led Laker nightmare end?

Having Rich Paul as GM could make the transition from a Buss-led Laker ownership to a LeBron-led Laker ownership almost seamless. A Lebron-led Laker ownership group, the potential for relocating the franchise to Las Vegas and the access to acquiring talent to a Laker team with its own home arena in a state with no state income tax would be a nightmare for both the Lacob-Guber owned Warriors and the Balmer owned Clippers, too!

[fteru6uhre54ew]

Reading the last few pages and it’s like taking crazy pills—did we watch the same season?

Vogel was terrible. Full stop.

He left so many wins on the board. The team played like they were trying to get him fired all season long. From pre-season to the end.

Missing the weakass play-in game with LeBron James on your team should be enough. I don’t care if he only played 42 games (he played 56).

The thing that drives me nuts is we clearly didn’t want him and then built a team that didn’t suit his strengths. So instead of just not retaining him over the summer, or replacing him mid season, we let him waste one of our last remaining shots at a puncher’s chance. To me, that is the gravest sin.

It revealed the worst weakness a FO can show: feebleness.

This team was super flawed, but we still would be a tough out in series basketball with Lebron James playing the level he did. For most of the year our point differential was like 1 field goal. Change coaches earlier, and improved chemistry could easily have overcome that.

Our reverence for Vogel as an organization cost us maybe LeBron’s last great season—for all we know. To me that’s inexcusable. He’s a very limited coach, and once you lock yourselves in to a flawed 3 star squad then there’s only so much you can change. Coach had to go.

It’s pretty straightforward. You guys are missing the bigger picture.

Could overcome what?. Having Westbrook and Carmelo playing for your team heavy minutes you aren't going to overcome anything. Vogel is a hell of a defensive coach the guy literally can't do anything to make this roster play defense. It's impossible when you are with 2 guys playing defense and one is always injured. A coach can't control have guys doing stupid things every game on both ends. And with the next coach is going to be the same if the same players are there.

[Beethoven]

Ham

[LAL1947]

Yet, it was Klutch which brought to the Lakers LeBron and helped to make the deal to bring AD, cornerstones of the team's most recent "bubble 'Summer Camp'" championship.

Rich Paul, not Klutch, would be replacing Pelinka, and Rich Paul would be bringing to the Lakers his and Klutch's rolodex of player and other GM relationships. So, short-term, this might be a great hire for the Lakers.

Longer term, Laker fans need to be rescued from Jeanie and her sewing club's cheap ineptness.

When will the Jeanie-led Laker nightmare end?

Having Rich Paul as GM could make the transition from a Buss-led Laker ownership to a LeBron-led Laker ownership almost seamless. A Lebron-led Laker ownership group, the potential for relocating the franchise to Las Vegas and the access to acquiring talent to a Laker team with its own home arena in a state with no state income tax would be a nightmare for both the Lacob-Guber owned Warriors and the Balmer owned Clippers, too!

Lol, why are you fronting for Lebron and Klutch so hard? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen you post this, and say it even in unrelated convos. They paying you or something?

We don't want Las Vegas and we don't want a Lebron-led Lakers. Let him buy a piece of the Cavs instead.

[LAL1947]

Saw this over on the Athletic. Not sure if it's been posted before. Can the thread title be updated to reflect current status please? Thanks!

• The Lakers appear poised to make a decision on their coaching position soon, with Milwaukee Bucks assistant Darvin Ham, Golden State Warriors assistant Kenny Atkinson and former Portland Trail Blazers coach Terry Stotts the finalists for the job.

• All three finalists will soon meet with top Lakers officials — including owner Jeanie Buss — in Los Angeles for the next in-person stage, sources said. So far, Lakers vice president of basketball operations Rob Pelinka, director of basketball affairs Kurt Rambis, vice president of research and development Joey Buss and assistant general manager Jesse Buss have led the first stage of coaching interviews.

• The Lakers have interviewed a total of six candidates, including Bucks assistant Charles Lee, Raptors assistant Adrian Griffin and former Warriors coach Mark Jackson.

• Pelinka is heading the committee that will ultimately make the decision. Jeanie Buss, who has yet to be involved in the process, is not part of the committee and plans on deferring to its recommendation. Phil Jackson and Johnson aren’t part of the committee, either.

• Considering the many unflattering story lines that have surrounded the Lakers in recent years, Jeanie Buss is determined to assuage any and all of the finalists’ concerns about the organization during this final stage. Her message, the source said, would focus on an organizational commitment to providing both the resources and internal support needed to inspire team success.

Source

[sonnyhill]

Yet, it was Klutch which brought to the Lakers LeBron and helped to make the deal to bring AD, cornerstones of the team's most recent "bubble 'Summer Camp'" championship.

Rich Paul, not Klutch, would be replacing Pelinka, and Rich Paul would be bringing to the Lakers his and Klutch's rolodex of player and other GM relationships. So, short-term, this might be a great hire for the Lakers.

Longer term, Laker fans need to be rescued from Jeanie and her sewing club's cheap ineptness.

When will the Jeanie-led Laker nightmare end?

Having Rich Paul as GM could make the transition from a Buss-led Laker ownership to a LeBron-led Laker ownership almost seamless. A Lebron-led Laker ownership group, the potential for relocating the franchise to Las Vegas and the access to acquiring talent to a Laker team with its own home arena in a state with no state income tax would be a nightmare for both the Lacob-Guber owned Warriors and the Balmer owned Clippers, too!

Lol, why are you fronting for Lebron and Klutch so hard? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen you post this, and say it even in unrelated convos. They paying you or something?

We don't want Las Vegas and we don't want a Lebron-led Lakers. Let him buy a piece of the Cavs instead.

"Old School" (ownership, management, and coaching) vs "New School" (ownership, management, and coaching) is a good discussion for Laker fans to debate, argue, and even sometimes agree upon on this board's various threads.

Running the Laker franchise like a mom-and-pop store-or-a-"Dave and Busters" https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/they-are-a-marquee-franchise-thats-being-run-like-a-dave-busters-chris-mannix-shreds-the-los-angeles-lakers) and with a "miser's mentality" goes back to the days of when Dr. Jerry Buss was alive. Even the narrative of blaming Kobe for Shaq's departure is false; Shaq left the Lakers because of ownership's tight purse strings: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-not-to-blame-for-shaquille-oneal-trade-lakers-owner-jeanie-buss-says-purely-a-money-situation/

When comparing the Buss-led Laker ownership to the Lacob-Guber Warrior ownership, all Laker fans should have the same frozen-and-frightened feeling that a deer has when it is caught in the headlights of an oncoming 18-wheel truck. After reading this sobering article about what a state-of-the-art and modern franchise with smart ownership does in order to keep its franchises relevant in the 21st century:https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/23/nbas-golden-state-warriors-plan-to-be-more-than-a-basketball-team.html, Laker fans immediately realize that current Laker ownership is ill-equipped financially and is light years behind when it comes to thought-leadership.

While Jeanie and her sewing group are typing out useless gibberish on their IBM typewriters and forwarding these tropes to a cadre of Hollywood beat reporters, other NBA owners, like Lacob-Guber, Balmer, etc., are cutting deals for future licensing revenue from streaming giants like Apple, creating ticket exchange platforms for luxury suites, NFT sales, direct-to-consumer content delivery, and transforming into sports and entertainment companies with the basketball franchise as the centerpiece. Sadly, Jeanie's ownership approach is too reminiscent of the final decade of the late Al Davis's tenure as Raider owner, and it is now impossible for Jeanie to play catch-up with smarter owners who have deeper financial pockets.

Instead of swimming against the current and struggling to compete, the Lakers should strategically lean into both its historic winning brand and the team's "New School" media mogul, LeBron James; work with the league to leverage LeBron and allow for him to become player-coach, bring in Rich Paul to replace Rob Pelinka, help LeBron and Rich Paul to line up their network of deep pocketed investors to eventually become the new owners of the Lakers and eventually move the team to a more "business-friendly" city where the team can compete without having to co-reside in its city with an overly-aggressive Balmer-owned franchise.

The other more-tactical approach would be to trade away both LeBron and AD for draft capital, expiring contracts and younger talent; build this upcoming season's roster around Westbrook, have his contract come off the books at the end of this upcoming season; hire a coaching staff which can both create culture and properly evaluate and develop young talent; and hope that Jeanie and her sewing group can occasionally re-capture "Laker lightening" in a bottle.

Hiring a new head coach and bringing back the LeBron, AD, Westbrook troika, however, may be what is in store for this upcoming season.

[tamaraw08]

Saw this over on the Athletic. Not sure if it's been posted before. Can the thread title be updated to reflect current status please? Thanks!

• The Lakers appear poised to make a decision on their coaching position soon, with Milwaukee Bucks assistant Darvin Ham, Golden State Warriors assistant Kenny Atkinson and former Portland Trail Blazers coach Terry Stotts the finalists for the job.

• All three finalists will soon meet with top Lakers officials — including owner Jeanie Buss — in Los Angeles for the next in-person stage, sources said. So far, Lakers vice president of basketball operations Rob Pelinka, director of basketball affairs Kurt Rambis, vice president of research and development Joey Buss and assistant general manager Jesse Buss have led the first stage of coaching interviews.

• The Lakers have interviewed a total of six candidates, including Bucks assistant Charles Lee, Raptors assistant Adrian Griffin and former Warriors coach Mark Jackson.

• Pelinka is heading the committee that will ultimately make the decision. Jeanie Buss, who has yet to be involved in the process, is not part of the committee and plans on deferring to its recommendation. Phil Jackson and Johnson aren’t part of the committee, either.

• Considering the many unflattering story lines that have surrounded the Lakers in recent years, Jeanie Buss is determined to assuage any and all of the finalists’ concerns about the organization during this final stage. Her message, the source said, would focus on an organizational commitment to providing both the resources and internal support needed to inspire team success.

Source

So, if Phil and Magic are not techically part of the hiring committee, I'm betting Jeannie has consulted both of them about these "finalists". Who they like/prefer and who they might have the most concerns, if this is the case, Have these 2 made some research before they render their opinion?
What about Kurt Rambis and Lebron? Are they part of the committee?
What is the process of the members of the committee? Do they have have individual cards they fill out, where they score 10 pts on who they like the most and 0 for those who they hate?
I always lean on veteran coaches as safer bets, but then again I thought Byron Scott was the safer bet when Mike D'Antoni left but look what happened?

[tamaraw08]

Yet, it was Klutch which brought to the Lakers LeBron and helped to make the deal to bring AD, cornerstones of the team's most recent "bubble 'Summer Camp'" championship.

Rich Paul, not Klutch, would be replacing Pelinka, and Rich Paul would be bringing to the Lakers his and Klutch's rolodex of player and other GM relationships. So, short-term, this might be a great hire for the Lakers.

Longer term, Laker fans need to be rescued from Jeanie and her sewing club's cheap ineptness.

When will the Jeanie-led Laker nightmare end?

Having Rich Paul as GM could make the transition from a Buss-led Laker ownership to a LeBron-led Laker ownership almost seamless. A Lebron-led Laker ownership group, the potential for relocating the franchise to Las Vegas and the access to acquiring talent to a Laker team with its own home arena in a state with no state income tax would be a nightmare for both the Lacob-Guber owned Warriors and the Balmer owned Clippers, too!

Lol, why are you fronting for Lebron and Klutch so hard? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen you post this, and say it even in unrelated convos. They paying you or something?

We don't want Las Vegas and we don't want a Lebron-led Lakers. Let him buy a piece of the Cavs instead.

He's probably one of many of Steve Ballmer's execs who will get a nice bonus if somehow Jeannie and her brothers get to read his suggestions then boom? Steve Ballmer and his Clippers then get the sole ownership of the hearts of VERY RICH Los Angeles loyal fans .
Artie Moreno bought the Angels, even won the championship, named the team what?" Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim?"... for the brand? Imagine of the Dodgers left? But they didn't. Rams won and fans are coming.
But I get it... Jeannie is poor while Ballmer is rich and the solution? Just freaking move to Las Vegas.

[Kilroy]

Saw this over on the Athletic. Not sure if it's been posted before. Can the thread title be updated to reflect current status please? Thanks!

• The Lakers appear poised to make a decision on their coaching position soon, with Milwaukee Bucks assistant Darvin Ham, Golden State Warriors assistant Kenny Atkinson and former Portland Trail Blazers coach Terry Stotts the finalists for the job.

• All three finalists will soon meet with top Lakers officials — including owner Jeanie Buss — in Los Angeles for the next in-person stage, sources said. So far, Lakers vice president of basketball operations Rob Pelinka, director of basketball affairs Kurt Rambis, vice president of research and development Joey Buss and assistant general manager Jesse Buss have led the first stage of coaching interviews.

• The Lakers have interviewed a total of six candidates, including Bucks assistant Charles Lee, Raptors assistant Adrian Griffin and former Warriors coach Mark Jackson.

• Pelinka is heading the committee that will ultimately make the decision. Jeanie Buss, who has yet to be involved in the process, is not part of the committee and plans on deferring to its recommendation. Phil Jackson and Johnson aren’t part of the committee, either.

• Considering the many unflattering story lines that have surrounded the Lakers in recent years, Jeanie Buss is determined to assuage any and all of the finalists’ concerns about the organization during this final stage. Her message, the source said, would focus on an organizational commitment to providing both the resources and internal support needed to inspire team success.

Source

The forum is pretty dead right now, so we don't really need 'mega threads' at this point... If you have a verifiable scoop or story, feel free to start a new thread with it... That'll help keep the forum clean of trash threads and goofy hot takes, as well.

[Ball so hard]

Reading the last few pages and it’s like taking crazy pills—did we watch the same season?

Vogel was terrible. Full stop.

He left so many wins on the board. The team played like they were trying to get him fired all season long. From pre-season to the end.

Missing the weakass play-in game with LeBron James on your team should be enough. I don’t care if he only played 42 games (he played 56).

The thing that drives me nuts is we clearly didn’t want him and then built a team that didn’t suit his strengths. So instead of just not retaining him over the summer, or replacing him mid season, we let him waste one of our last remaining shots at a puncher’s chance. To me, that is the gravest sin.

It revealed the worst weakness a FO can show: feebleness.

This team was super flawed, but we still would be a tough out in series basketball with Lebron James playing the level he did. For most of the year our point differential was like 1 field goal. Change coaches earlier, and improved chemistry could easily have overcome that.

Our reverence for Vogel as an organization cost us maybe LeBron’s last great season—for all we know. To me that’s inexcusable. He’s a very limited coach, and once you lock yourselves in to a flawed 3 star squad then there’s only so much you can change. Coach had to go.

It’s pretty straightforward. You guys are missing the bigger picture.

Could overcome what?. Having Westbrook and Carmelo playing for your team heavy minutes you aren't going to overcome anything. Vogel is a hell of a defensive coach the guy literally can't do anything to make this roster play defense. It's impossible when you are with 2 guys playing defense and one is always injured. A coach can't control have guys doing stupid things every game on both ends. And with the next coach is going to be the same if the same players are there.

Agree with you. Don’t quite follow his argument. He acknowledged the roster was super flawed and the front office did not build a roster to suit Vogel’s skill set, then went on the blame the coach. Seems to me his anger and frustrations are misdirected. Could another coach have won a few more games… of course. However, the minute it became clear the Westbrook experiment was a disaster, no coach would’ve brought this team to, let’s say, western conference finals. Many in the media and on this board thought the Westbrook fit was awful the minute the trade was announced. The biggest failure is arguably the Westbrook acquisition. Injury was another significant factor. Lebron wasted one of his last remaining shot at a title when he orchestrated that Westbrook trade. I couldn’t give a **** about Lebron’s one last “great season.” Frankly I can’t wait until this guy is off the team.

[sonnyhill]

Reading the last few pages and it’s like taking crazy pills—did we watch the same season?

Vogel was terrible. Full stop.

He left so many wins on the board. The team played like they were trying to get him fired all season long. From pre-season to the end.

Missing the weakass play-in game with LeBron James on your team should be enough. I don’t care if he only played 42 games (he played 56).

The thing that drives me nuts is we clearly didn’t want him and then built a team that didn’t suit his strengths. So instead of just not retaining him over the summer, or replacing him mid season, we let him waste one of our last remaining shots at a puncher’s chance. To me, that is the gravest sin.

It revealed the worst weakness a FO can show: feebleness.

This team was super flawed, but we still would be a tough out in series basketball with Lebron James playing the level he did. For most of the year our point differential was like 1 field goal. Change coaches earlier, and improved chemistry could easily have overcome that.

Our reverence for Vogel as an organization cost us maybe LeBron’s last great season—for all we know. To me that’s inexcusable. He’s a very limited coach, and once you lock yourselves in to a flawed 3 star squad then there’s only so much you can change. Coach had to go.

It’s pretty straightforward. You guys are missing the bigger picture.

Could overcome what?. Having Westbrook and Carmelo playing for your team heavy minutes you aren't going to overcome anything. Vogel is a hell of a defensive coach the guy literally can't do anything to make this roster play defense. It's impossible when you are with 2 guys playing defense and one is always injured. A coach can't control have guys doing stupid things every game on both ends. And with the next coach is going to be the same if the same players are there.

Agree with you. Don’t quite follow his argument. He acknowledged the roster was super flawed and the front office did not build a roster to suit Vogel’s skill set, then went on the blame the coach. Seems to me his anger and frustrations are misdirected. Could another coach have won a few more games… of course. However, the minute it became clear the Westbrook experiment was a disaster, no coach would’ve brought this team to, let’s say, western conference finals. Many in the media and on this board thought the Westbrook fit was awful the minute the trade was announced. The biggest failure is arguably the Westbrook acquisition. Injury was another significant factor. Lebron wasted one of his last remaining shot at a title when he orchestrated that Westbrook trade. I couldn’t give a **** about Lebron’s one last “great season.” Frankly I can’t wait until this guy is off the team.

Lots to unpack here.

The flawed Laker roster, lack of support for Vogel, and not even making the play-in were all the result of a dysfunctional organization, starting with ownership and the front office.

Yes, LeBron and his cadre at Klutch did help the team acquire AD and win the bubble Summer Camp championship. However, in the deal to acquire AD the Lakers gave up really good young talent ( Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart) and FOUR first round draft picks. Also, in order to acquire Westbrook, the Lakers sent Kyle Kuzma, Montrez Harrell, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to the Wizards (plus their 2021 first-round pick).

Laker fans, would you rather see the Lakers going into this upcoming season with LeBron surrounded by Ingram, Ball, Hart, Kuzma, Harrell, KCP and the team's first round draft pick instead of LeBron surrounded by a too-often-injured AND afraid-to-play-center AD, Westbrook, Anthony, etc.?

The narrative being pushed by the media is that LeBron and Klutch wanted-demanded AD and that LeBron and Klutch wanted Westbrook instead of Buddy Hield. If the Lakers had acquiesced to LeBron and Klutch on trading for both AD and Westbrook and the front office was unhappy with Vogel, I again ask "why not lobby the league to allow for LeBron to become the Lakers player-coach?" Apparently, LeBron built this Laker roster which Vogel was unable to coach successfully. Wouldn't it now make sense to have LeBron coach his hand-picked roster?

I have seen others on this thread dismissing Rich Paul as a replacement for Pelinka; yet, Rich Paul has contacts throughout the league, would be coordinated in strategy with LeBron, especially if LeBron was to become the Lakers player-coach; and would give Jeanie another talking point to generate the media buzz to keep the Laker brand in the national spotlight.

[sonnyhill]

Yet, it was Klutch which brought to the Lakers LeBron and helped to make the deal to bring AD, cornerstones of the team's most recent "bubble 'Summer Camp'" championship.

Rich Paul, not Klutch, would be replacing Pelinka, and Rich Paul would be bringing to the Lakers his and Klutch's rolodex of player and other GM relationships. So, short-term, this might be a great hire for the Lakers.

Longer term, Laker fans need to be rescued from Jeanie and her sewing club's cheap ineptness.

When will the Jeanie-led Laker nightmare end?

Having Rich Paul as GM could make the transition from a Buss-led Laker ownership to a LeBron-led Laker ownership almost seamless. A Lebron-led Laker ownership group, the potential for relocating the franchise to Las Vegas and the access to acquiring talent to a Laker team with its own home arena in a state with no state income tax would be a nightmare for both the Lacob-Guber owned Warriors and the Balmer owned Clippers, too!

Lol, why are you fronting for Lebron and Klutch so hard? This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen you post this, and say it even in unrelated convos. They paying you or something?

We don't want Las Vegas and we don't want a Lebron-led Lakers. Let him buy a piece of the Cavs instead.

He's probably one of many of Steve Ballmer's execs who will get a nice bonus if somehow Jeannie and her brothers get to read his suggestions then boom? Steve Ballmer and his Clippers then get the sole ownership of the hearts of VERY RICH Los Angeles loyal fans .
Artie Moreno bought the Angels, even won the championship, named the team what?" Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim?"... for the brand? Imagine of the Dodgers left? But they didn't. Rams won and fans are coming.
But I get it... Jeannie is poor while Ballmer is rich and the solution? Just freaking move to Las Vegas.

Not a LeBron-Klutch guy, but see how the Lakers best path moving forward is to maximize and leverage both LeBron-Klutch AND Rich Paul. That ecosystem, while foreign to many, is the modern NBA. Jeanie needs to fire Pelinka, hire Rich Paul to run the front office, and empower Rich Paul to get the Lakers back into the modern NBA. For too long, since Jerry West moved onto Memphis (then to Golden State and now he is with the Clippers), the Lakers have been playing checkers while the good franchises were playing chess. Now, with the advent of that Lacob-Guber owned juggernaut in Northern California (no, not the Kings), we are seeing smart front offices moving beyond playing chess to playing 3-D chess. Just in roster construction, for example: The Warriors had acquired Andrew Wiggins AND a 1st round pick that ended up being Jonathan Kuminga for D'Angelo Russell. Russell was part of a sign-and-trade deal that the Warriors had done with the Nets for Kevin Durant leaving the Warriors through free agency. I am sure that Warrior fans were freaking out when their front office had acquired Russell for Durant; yet, their front office saw Russell as an asset which could be flipped for a better-fitting asset/assets. Let's face it...in this ecosystem, the Lakers would have been the team scrambling to try to sign the free agent, Durant; yet, the smarter move was to let Durant walk and eventually flip him walking into both a young former #1 draft pick, Wiggins, who still has lots of upside potential, and Kuminga, a raw and uber-talented 19-year old rookie with crazy athleticism.

Once the Lakers bring in Rich Paul to run the front office, there is no way that the NBA would prevent LeBron from becoming the Laker player-coach. Even Skip Bayless, hardly a LeBron fanboy, but a pundit who has big-time respect for the Laker franchise, is advocating giving LeBron player-coach title:

Watch on YouTube

The Lakers can and should be able to have the very best front office, and that should be the focus of this off-season BEFORE hiring a new coach. Is Jeanie willing to not only spend the necessary money to bring in a Rich Paul or a Sam Presti AND empower the person to actually run the team without outside interference?

Not a Balmer nor a Clipper fan, at all. Balmer is a public embarrassment (he reminds me of a "'Mark Cuban with more money;' 'a much more out-of-shape than Mark Cuban with some really out-of-control 'roid-rage;;'' and 'a much more awkward-and-embarrassing-in-his- public-behavior (a cross between 'Jabba the Hutt" and a untrained seal at Sea World) than Mark Cuban'"), and the Clippers should have never moved from either Buffalo to San Diego and especially nor from San Diego to Los Angeles. Unfortunately, the Clippers are in Los Angeles and with an uber-aggressive owner who is not afraid to spend money.

"Steve Ballmer and his Clippers" definitely on the path to "get the sole ownership of the hearts of VERY RICH Los Angeles loyal fans;" he and his Clippers will use the same strategies and tactics which were used by Microsoft to destroy WordPerfect, Borland, Novell, Lotus, and Netscape and employ them on a much easier opponent, the Jeanie Buss-owned Lakers. Beating out the Lakers in acquiring Kawaii Leonard through free agency, trading for Paul George, the building of a Balmer-Clipper owned new arena and training facility, and the hiring of Tyrone Lue are some of the aggressive moves made by Balmer and the Clippers.

In this new NBA ecosystem, Jeanie is ill-equipped to compete, especially with her strategy of trying to recapture lightening in a bottle.

[Ball so hard]

Could overcome what?. Having Westbrook and Carmelo playing for your team heavy minutes you aren't going to overcome anything. Vogel is a hell of a defensive coach the guy literally can't do anything to make this roster play defense. It's impossible when you are with 2 guys playing defense and one is always injured. A coach can't control have guys doing stupid things every game on both ends. And with the next coach is going to be the same if the same players are there.

Agree with you. Don’t quite follow his argument. He acknowledged the roster was super flawed and the front office did not build a roster to suit Vogel’s skill set, then went on the blame the coach. Seems to me his anger and frustrations are misdirected. Could another coach have won a few more games… of course. However, the minute it became clear the Westbrook experiment was a disaster, no coach would’ve brought this team to, let’s say, western conference finals. Many in the media and on this board thought the Westbrook fit was awful the minute the trade was announced. The biggest failure is arguably the Westbrook acquisition. Injury was another significant factor. Lebron wasted one of his last remaining shot at a title when he orchestrated that Westbrook trade. I couldn’t give a **** about Lebron’s one last “great season.” Frankly I can’t wait until this guy is off the team.

Lots to unpack here.

The flawed Laker roster, lack of support for Vogel, and not even making the play-in were all the result of a dysfunctional organization, starting with ownership and the front office.

Yes, LeBron and his cadre at Klutch did help the team acquire AD and win the bubble Summer Camp championship. However, in the deal to acquire AD the Lakers gave up really good young talent ( Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart) and FOUR first round draft picks. Also, in order to acquire Westbrook, the Lakers sent Kyle Kuzma, Montrez Harrell, and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to the Wizards (plus their 2021 first-round pick).

Laker fans, would you rather see the Lakers going into this upcoming season with LeBron surrounded by Ingram, Ball, Hart, Kuzma, Harrell, KCP and the team's first round draft pick instead of LeBron surrounded by a too-often-injured AND afraid-to-play-center AD, Westbrook, Anthony, etc.?

The narrative being pushed by the media is that LeBron and Klutch wanted-demanded AD and that LeBron and Klutch wanted Westbrook instead of Buddy Hield. If the Lakers had acquiesced to LeBron and Klutch on trading for both AD and Westbrook and the front office was unhappy with Vogel, I again ask "why not lobby the league to allow for LeBron to become the Lakers player-coach?" Apparently, LeBron built this Laker roster which Vogel was unable to coach successfully. Wouldn't it now make sense to have LeBron coach his hand-picked roster?

I have seen others on this thread dismissing Rich Paul as a replacement for Pelinka; yet, Rich Paul has contacts throughout the league, would be coordinated in strategy with LeBron, especially if LeBron was to become the Lakers player-coach; and would give Jeanie another talking point to generate the media buzz to keep the Laker brand in the national spotlight.

I think the move for AD was the right move. With the benefit of hindsight I now think we might've overpaid a little. I could be wrong but I don't think i've heard Lebron express any interest in coaching. Lebron has always struck me as the guy who likes to operate in the shadow. Failing as a player-coach would be devastating for his reputation. Player-coach is far too risky a position for Lebron to accept.

The Lakers made a mephistophelian deal with Lebron and now they have to live with it.

[Kilroy]

I'm fairly certain LeBron and Klutch are just biding their time until they open that expansion team in Vegas, and they'll step up and try to own it. Then he can draft Bronny...

[euphorbus]

I'm fairly certain LeBron and Klutch are just biding their time until they open that expansion team in Vegas, and they'll step up and try to own it. Then he can draft Bronny...

Those conniving Klutches. Or are they Klutzes?

[sonnyhill]

Randy Mims, also part of the LeBron "posse (Phil's description)," is already working in the Laker front office.

Instead of fighting and resisting against Klutch, Jeanie may want to open up the vault, roll out the Brink's truck, and sign a huge check to Rich Paul and hope that he would agree to take over an ossified Laker front office. A bold move like this gives Jeanie and Laker nation a once-in-a-lifetime chance to upgrade-and-modernize; it would be a last ditch effort to stave off the Balmer-Clipper already-happening marketing onslaught.

We have to believe that the league would allow for the Lakers, one of the flagship legacy franchises of the NBA, to name LeBron player-coach. The national media buzz would be huge, and LeBron could do the job better than the candidates whom the Lakers are currently interviewing. What better alignment could the Lakers ask for than Rich Paul running the front office and LeBron coaching the team? Having a LeBron-Paul tandem would prevent the disconnect that had happened between the Laker front office and Frank Vogel from ever happening again. Jeanie could show all of her sewing group friends that she is beyond-woke with her now having embraced the "new school" approach to running a NBA franchise.

Think about it...Lebron and Mims are already working for the Lakers. Bringing in Rich Paul to both fix as well as modernize the front office just makes too much sense not to do it.

Also, if the Lakers are serious about capturing the hearts and minds of the next generation of Southern California basketball fans, the fourth member of LeBron's crew, Maverick Carter, could be brought into the Laker fold as its new Chief Marketing Officer.

Lastly, I agree; nobody wants to see the Lakers move the franchise to Las Vegas. Yet, if it becomes inevitable, what better group to do it than LeBron, Rich Paul, Randy Mims and Maverick Carter in a management-led LBO?

Lakers 1.0 - Minneapolis => Lakers 2.0 - Los Angeles => Lakers 3.0 - Las Vegas