The LeBron Thread (merged)

[Rosque]

Lebron tops no MVP list, he's #5 on hoopshype and and he's not even listed on the Sporting News. Even during the ESPN broadcast of the Lakers-Spurs game, Chauncey Billups and Paul Pierce didn't include Lebron in their respective lists of top players. All this would be unthinkable in previous seasons.

Hoopshype? Sporting News? Paul "Wheelchair" Pierce? How about nba.com, the only relevant website in these matter and not some D* list websites and analysts

https://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder

1. LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers


*D stands for dumb-as-f...

[Kilroy]

Yeah, LeBron is pretty much killing it statistically this season, and it would be hard to argue that any of the stars on that list have a worse supporting cast...
And he's in the west...

If we make the playoffs and make a good run and he's still doing the same thing, he's pretty clearly head MVP candidate... His numbers are better than anyone on the list too... Interesting that he's averaging more assists that Curry on this team.

[Michael Lucky]

I'm not sure AD deserves to be that high. Seriously doubt Lebron would be 13-13 with Holiday, Randle, and Mirotic. All three who are having career years offensively. All three whom are better players than anyone Lebron is playing with.

[RamonSessions7]

Hoops hype, sporting news, talking heads....ha

[milesfides]

Of course they matter. A panel of 100 members of independent media vote for the MVP. And the MVP rankings actually inflate Lebron, because Steph Curry and Kevin Durant have and will continue to split the vote.

[iamworthy]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[_Joker]

OP, is that you Skip?

[Lalouie]

Considering the excitement surrounding Lebron James joining the Lakers, it brings me little joy to point out the obvious.

Lebron is getting old. He turns 34 in December, and this is not only when all great players start to noticeably decline, but it is statistically also when they suffer career-limiting or career-ending injuries. The likelihood of Lebron suffering a catastrophic injury soon is statistically almost a sure thing.

Kobe tore his achilles when he was 34.

Michael Jordan left at 34, but in his first season back with the Wizards, he tore up his knee.

Scottie Pippen dropped off greatly at 33, then struggled with injuries at 35, eventually forcing him to retire.

Shaq had knee surgery at 34, and he was essentially done.

Dominique Wilkins tore his achilles when he was 33. A year later he was playing in Greece.

Charles Barkley tore his quad tendon when he was 31, never was the same after that. Another torn quad forced him to be carried off the court.

James Worthy had to have knee surgery at 31, which forced him to retire a year later.

Tim Duncan was never the same player when he hit 34.

This list goes on and on because father time is undefeated. It is inevitable.

We've all seen this movie before, many, many times. Too many times. But hope is a son of a bitch. It seduces you to rob you of good sense. The Lakers got into bed with Karl Malone and Gary Payton in 2003 and and Nash and Dwight in 2012. And then when they fell apart, we realized the obvious. Hope can make you blind.

Lebron's signing of a 4-year $154m contract was a mistake. It was a mistake like Kobe's extension at the same age. It always is a mistake.

There's still time to fix that mistake. Lebron is still highly valued, but it's a bubble. He's set up for a bank run. One injury, and it's over. A few articles pointing out his fade (Lebron has slipped on defense for two straight seasons), it's over.

Trading him will be a PR nightmare for one season, but that is far more preferable than half a decade of being handcuffed by mediocrity. We've also seen that movie before.

Let's stop being fools. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, the cock crows and we need divine intervention.

I'm really tired of Los Angeles being a slaughterhouse for superstars. Let's let somebody else shoot the elephant for once. It is a beast of enormous burden. Years of watching the blood dry on the carcasses of giants weighs too much on the soul.

different era. today, it's all hands off. as opposed to the guys you mentioned, so not only does lebron benefit by that but he's physically more dominant compared to those he's playing against. to wit,,,,like wilt against all those lilliputians back in the day

[thomas1897]

The Lakers' Management has been very focused on bring superstar talent to Los Angeles and at a very high price. The Lakers have 154 million for four years invested.The author of this topic has made some compelling points of interest about NBA superstars who past their prime. I would like to make some exceptions Bill Russell won a championship at the end of his career. Wilt Chamberlain had won for the Lakers. Robert Parish and Tim Duncan had some success also. Lebron has shown some signs of diminishing skills, dunk shot blocked, quickness not as adept. The management needs to address this with Lebron and delegate some of the offense to other players Ball and Ingram need to have an expanded role. Lebron does not have to commit to having the ball as much to generate offense for the team. Patience and leadership is what Lebron should bring.
Teaching the young core of players on how to win games is important especially close games, overtime games, and come from behind and win games. Having these young players to buy into winning with LeBron reducing his role on the ball approach all the time can benefit the development of the future for the Lakers. Yes the Laker Management has a plan to win now but patience and everyone has to be able to agree to this concept. The Western Conference is the most dominate conference and the Lakers can not win with just Lebron taking over games any more.

[Kilroy]

LeBron just openly called himself the greatest NBA player of all time... Ouch.

[Landsberger]

LeBron just openly called himself the greatest NBA player of all time... Ouch.

He doesn't dress like the GOAT....

[dAdo dA dEvil]

LeBron just openly called himself the greatest NBA player of all time... Ouch.

Is this for real? Must have strained his brain too.

[jigga_man]

You can convince yourself of anything if you repeat it enough times.

[milesfides]

Lebron's already missing the most games ever in his career, and we've only reached midseason.

To extend his career, I think he needs to really commit to obvious changes (not playing defense shouldn't be one of them). He needs to play more in the post and/or drop weight. For example, the fall of Melo, one of the great scorers in the game. He's a much inferior athlete to Lebron, but he's a bit of the canary in the coal mine. Once you can't keep up, you're going to get run off the court. Or carried off.

I doubt Lebron is comfortable changing his game. He's always going to want to make plays on the perimeter, especially because he doesn't need to run from post to post. So the easier thing would be to drop weight, which should help his agility and would reduce chance of injury.

[milesfides]

34 remains a pretty rough age for perimeter players. JJ Barea's achilles tear is another major data point.

Some sobering facts:

1) He just suffered the worst injury of his career so far (at least 13 games +)
2) Lebron remains the oldest full-time starting perimeter player in the NBA (34 years old).
3) No player, at any position, plays more minutes at that age (34.6)
4) He has played more career minutes than Vince Carter (42 years old)
5) Out of 480 NBA players this season, Lebron has entered the top 20 oldest (96th percentile in age, and counting - bye Wade, Dirk, etc.)
6) Michael Jordan had the worst season of his career at 34 years old. He also retired.
...

[madmaxmedia]

I think this is a very legitimate thread, not because the Lakers are ever gonna trade Lebron, but as a way to evaluate and compare the potential directions the franchise could have taken. Like almost everyone else, I believe signing Lebron was a no-brainer, but all choices have their positives and negatives.

Lebron may end up just fine, but I do worry if this injury could be an indicator. There's a lot you can do to preserve the human body, and Lebron does all of those things. But there is wear and tear that takes a cumulative toll that cannot be overcome, reversed, etc. I mean the guy has carried such a big workload for so many years, and so many deep playoff runs many of those years.

My best analogy is NFL cowbell running backs who run like a bull for multiple 1200-1500 yard seasons, and then one year start missing games here and there getting nicked up. At first you think it's just a one time thing, but then it happens again (and again), and in another year and a half they're out of the league. It doesn't happen to all of them though, just the great majority.

[zimpy27]

Conflating games missed with injury severity seems wrong.

The injury report was minor, the extended time off is actually an indication of the extra careful management and commitment to the long-term health for this Lakers team. Not to mention a perfect time to evaluate the youth without his presence.

[milesfides]

Plenty of problems with that ingratiating take.

The injury was indeed reported minor after the MRI. However, a few days ago Rich Paul described it as a grade 2 (moderate tear) sprain. I don't know what the truth is but somebody is lying. Very concerning.

Secondly, since his injury, the Lakers went from 4th in the west to out of the playoffs. Considering Magic's impatience and pressures on Luke Walton's job, if Lebron is fine and is just chilling, he needs to be out of this team. It's either his body is breaking down (not good) or he's a prima donna who puts himself above the team (not good either). Which is it?

Third, we need to evaluate these young players, but Lebron's arrival has thrown a wrench in Lonzo and Ingram's games. They won't be Lebron's 3-and-D backcourt this season - or ever. And why should they be? They don't need to live up to Lebron's standards while the old fart is skipping games and sipping wine. Tell him to play defense and gut through games like everybody else and set an example as a true leader. If he's too good to fight in the trenches, then he doesn't deserve whatever success we have. He would not have earned it. We need to play better with him, not without him. We already know Lonzo and Ingram players play better without him. That's not helpful.

But if Lebron can do whatever he wants to and not be accountable to anybody, then indeed, it's over. Look, if his body is fragile and we need to give him allowances for not playing defense or allowing to skip practice or to skip games, sorry, that means he's too old. King James had a great run, but kings get old and tyrannical and corrupt. You kowtow to him, you lose the entire kingdom.

But we don't need him. We have the best brand in the world. We'll survive him. And we'll get to the top again - with true Lakers. And I love these young men who are growing into their own. They are our own. They have so much pride in the purple and gold. If we win a ring, I'd want to win rings with players who've done it for the Lakers and for the fans, not for himself and his brand.

Indeed, Lebron is like a vampire sucking the blood from the youth to keep himself going.

[stan francisco]

Fact: LBJ will get old.

Fact: Old people get stiff and crack.

Fact: LBJ is a Laker for life.

Fact: LBJ wasn’t all Laker fans’ top choice star either. Not mine.

Fact: This injury was not structural. Anyone can tear a muscle anytime on a freak stretch.

Fact: It would be good for the Lakers fans if you were wrong in predating his playing death, if LBJ were a physical exception even in the longevity regard.


The more interesting discussion to me is how to manage his minutes and how to adjust the offense and help him adjust over the next few years.

And, how lucky we are that it was not structural.

But LBJ will be here for the next five, six years. And, I’m gonna continue rooting for the front of the jersey, hope that he’s a beast in terms of longevity.

[-G-]

OP spent 7 years telling everyone Kareem was done once he hit 34.