Around the NBA XI

[aaron_gray]

Also, the traditional line of thinking for big market teams has always been moderate success, than clear cap space to wait for disgruntled superstar of a small market team. This is also generally more meaningful when there are less teams with franchise players, and having a true big 3 could you into the conference finals every year.

Small teams are getting really good at drafting franchise players, identifying breakout stars, and creating desirable situations for the 2nd / 3rd star to join. I do wonder if moving forward, championships are going to start being won around the edges more, assuming a more balanced superstar landscape. By edges, I'm referring to who you draft in the late 1st and early 2nd as well as the guys signing for $10-$15mm per year deciding who gets to the conference championship. I just keep going back to the Mavs example, where their misses around the edges have held back the team's potential with Doncic arguably just as much as Porzingis.

[Kilroy]

The reality is, this is a pretty weak era... The term 'franchise player' doesn't really mean as much. There aren't any KD's, LeBrons, Kobes, Shaqs to be had out there right now... I love Luka and Joker, and sometimes Embiid and Ja... But those guys are on a lower tier...
So the usual path teams like the Lakers take to the promised land, of waiting for a disgruntled superstar, like you said, probably aren't realistic right now... Unless we could land Zion and he takes a massive step forward in skills, and commitment...
So I think the smart play would be to cling to Lebron and AD unless there's a dream trade for him out there, and try to add pieces around them to hide their deficiencies and maximize their strengths... Namely, nobody else who doesn't play good to great D can be on the starting lineup...

[Landsberger]

The reality is, this is a pretty weak era... The term 'franchise player' doesn't really mean as much. There aren't any KD's, LeBrons, Kobes, Shaqs to be had out there right now...

Truer words have not been typed on here in a while....

I'm not sure I'd include KD in that statement but otherwise it's the reality of the league.

It has a lot to do with the 1 and done kids who come in. It's all about athleticism over fundamentals and the game is suffering because of it.

[aaron_gray]

The reality is, this is a pretty weak era... The term 'franchise player' doesn't really mean as much. There aren't any KD's, LeBrons, Kobes, Shaqs to be had out there right now... I love Luka and Joker, and sometimes Embiid and Ja... But those guys are on a lower tier...
So the usual path teams like the Lakers take to the promised land, of waiting for a disgruntled superstar, like you said, probably aren't realistic right now... Unless we could land Zion and he takes a massive step forward in skills, and commitment...
So I think the smart play would be to cling to Lebron and AD unless there's a dream trade for him out there, and try to add pieces around them to hide their deficiencies and maximize their strengths... Namely, nobody else who doesn't play good to great D can be on the starting lineup...

Do you think Luka and Joker are on a lower tier than Giannis, or Chris Paul / Devin Booker, or Kawhi? I actually think your evidence proved the opposite: you don't need a Lebron / KD anymore to win or make the finals in this era. It actually should give you more comfort to move on from this current core, assuming that was the trade-off you implied.

[Slava]

I think the next 5 or so years are going to be dictated by the non-American superstars. Giannis is the LeBron of this era, Jokic, Embiid and Luka are the other lynchpins for potential contenders. If two of them team up, like LeBron and Wade in 2010, its over for the rest of the league.

[Kilroy]

The reality is, this is a pretty weak era... The term 'franchise player' doesn't really mean as much. There aren't any KD's, LeBrons, Kobes, Shaqs to be had out there right now... I love Luka and Joker, and sometimes Embiid and Ja... But those guys are on a lower tier...
So the usual path teams like the Lakers take to the promised land, of waiting for a disgruntled superstar, like you said, probably aren't realistic right now... Unless we could land Zion and he takes a massive step forward in skills, and commitment...
So I think the smart play would be to cling to Lebron and AD unless there's a dream trade for him out there, and try to add pieces around them to hide their deficiencies and maximize their strengths... Namely, nobody else who doesn't play good to great D can be on the starting lineup...

Do you think Luka and Joker are on a lower tier than Giannis, or Chris Paul / Devin Booker, or Kawhi? I actually think your evidence proved the opposite: you don't need a Lebron / KD anymore to win or make the finals in this era. It actually should give you more comfort to move on from this current core, assuming that was the trade-off you implied.

I mean yes... Giannis is on a tier alone right now... He's just better than anyone in the league... He's not that much better than Luka and Joker though. In this era, the 'tiers' are right on top of each other. There's no clear potential GOAT candidates right now. This era doesn't have the next LeBron or MJ, much less the next Duncan, Kobe, KD... Etc...

And since it is pretty weak right now, I agree with Slava... If the RIGHT 2 foreign stars team up, it's over. Giannis and anyone but Embiid... Luka and any of them... Joker and anyone but Embiid...

That said, the GSW approach might be best right now and try to get 4 really good players together who compliment each other well, and a coaching staff who knows what to do with them... It would also be a great era for Phil to come back and try to build a Triangle roster out of over-the-hill talent and a couple of young guns...

I think the only joker in the pack out there is Zion... He's out of shape, and seems to lack commitment, but he's explosive as hell and fairly skilled... If he got his head right, he could potentially be the best player in the league within a season or 2...

[aaron_gray]

I think the next 5 or so years are going to be dictated by the non-American superstars. Giannis is the LeBron of this era, Jokic, Embiid and Luka are the other lynchpins for potential contenders. If two of them team up, like LeBron and Wade in 2010, its over for the rest of the league.

There are already several duos of franchise players in that tier right?

Embiid / Harden (looks like they got Houston Harden, not Brooklyn flash dancers Harden)

Kawhi / Paul George

GSW Core

Durant / Dr. Irving, MD and PhD


I'm not really certain that a Jokic / Doncic core just dominates any of the above cores, not when Milwaukee, Phoenix, and Miami have shown how elite you can be with great 2nd and 3rd players that are just a tier below your 28 ppg franchise player.

This actually ties back to my original discussion point of champions being won on the fringes (your hit rate on late 1sts and early seconds and rotation free agents). If Lebron is preventing you from spending that money and draft capital wisely (or spending that money in any way that's actually productive), maybe it's worthwhile exploring a different core, given that it doesn't look like a generational talent (or even two generational talents) will wipe the league dynasty style.

[Slava]

I think the next 5 or so years are going to be dictated by the non-American superstars. Giannis is the LeBron of this era, Jokic, Embiid and Luka are the other lynchpins for potential contenders. If two of them team up, like LeBron and Wade in 2010, its over for the rest of the league.

There are already several duos of franchise players in that tier right?

Embiid / Harden (looks like they got Houston Harden, not Brooklyn flash dancers Harden)

Kawhi / Paul George

GSW Core

Durant / Dr. Irving, MD and PhD


I'm not really certain that a Jokic / Doncic core just dominates any of the above cores, not when Milwaukee, Phoenix, and Miami have shown how elite you can be with great 2nd and 3rd players that are just a tier below your 28 ppg franchise player.

This actually ties back to my original discussion point of champions being won on the fringes (your hit rate on late 1sts and early seconds and rotation free agents). If Lebron is preventing you from spending that money and draft capital wisely (or spending that money in any way that's actually productive), maybe it's worthwhile exploring a different core, given that it doesn't look like a generational talent (or even two generational talents) will wipe the league dynasty style.

I don’t think any of those duos are in the same tier as say a hypothetical Jokic-Luka, luka-Giannis or even a jokic-Giannis pairing. The most recent example is the lakers themselves, when they put together Lebron and Davis. They missed moves on the fringes, traded away more than their share of roster depth, other than maybe hitting on Caruso and that was as an undrafted free agent in the development system.

Miami hit a lot on those moves but they still won’t do well in the playoffs because they’ll keep running into a Giannis sized wall there, similar to how Indiana and their likes kept getting wiped out by Lebron in the East.

[Kilroy]

Yeah, you pair up any 2 of Luka, Giannis and Joker, and you've got a dynasty if you're half smart filling out the roster around them...

I'd say Luka/Embiid too, probably if Embiid doesn't trip over his emotions too much...

All the current pairings are flawed by old age...

That said, if the Nets ever get rolling... Kyrie is a bad man and Durant is durant... That team could eclipse everyone for a season or 2 more.

[Slava]

Brooklyn have not shown the ability to mentally or physically cope when things get tough to go and win 16 playoff games. That’s more the concern there than raw talent alone. Durant isn’t as durable anymore, and you never know how long Kyrie can keep his marbles together.

[iamworthy]

Want me up when Phil Jackson come back to Coach the lakers and has Lebron and AD running the triangle

[Kilroy]

Want me up when Phil Jackson come back to Coach the lakers and has Lebron and AD running the triangle

If you can't trade them both for good pieces, then you might as well, and honestly... They probably already know whether or not they can trade them, so you might as well do it now... Fire Pelinka, add PJ as GM/Coaching advisor, and Magic as Pres of BBALL Ops. Hire Luke Walton as HC, put Rambis in at head assistant, and the 3 of them can figure it out for the remainder of the season...
If LeBron and AD don't like it... Literally, who cares...

Just be ready to fire all of them if LeBron decides to leave and AD can be traded.

[Beethoven]

I'll be happy if Bucks repeat. Or if Chicago or Wizards (anyone with any of our guys) win it (highly unlikely of course).
I'd be happy even if Clippers come out of the west. I'd root for them to destroy suns

[snaquille oatmeal]

The positives to this season: Deng is off the books June 30th

[SlimShady83]

The positives to this season: Deng is off the books June 30th

LOL I can't stop laughing about this everyone's been happy about it - how much extra do Lakers have to spend now?

[snaquille oatmeal]

The positives to this season: Deng is off the books June 30th

LOL I can't stop laughing about this everyone's been happy about it - how much extra do Lakers have to spend now?

Somewhere between 5 and 8 million can’t remember exactly how much.

[LAL1947]

The positives to this season: Deng is off the books June 30th

Watch on YouTube

[Slava]

Well, all these celebrations over Deng coming off the books are premature until we know for sure that budget Rob Lowe wont use the stretch provision on Westbrook.

[Kilroy]

Well, all these celebrations over Deng coming off the books are premature until we know for sure that budget Rob Lowe wont use the stretch provision on Westbrook.

Almost posted this a couple days ago... We're about to jump from Deng to Westbrook being on the books for a million years...

[LAKESHOW]

This is i mean about Pelinka. We got Deng on the books, and this dude totally disregarded what we had to Live thru these past years, and dropped Westbrook contract on us. Cmon man, dude can't even learn from history