Young core all star potential

[Ball so hard]

Anyone here think any of these young players is destined to become a multiple time all star. Just don’t see it in any of them, am I the only one?

Just too many holes in each of their games. Not saying trade all of em, but I think it would be best to adjust expectations.

Short answer, no.

Even though Ingram is physically the most gifted of the bunch, I just don't see anything special about his game. As Doc correctly noted, far too many holes in their games, especially Ingram and Ball.

With regard to current flaws:

Lonzo - easily the most flawed of the bunch.
BI - Also flawed... too weak, plays small for his size, very reluctant to shoot the 3s, etc.
Hart - Plays like a 35 year old World Peace on defense, can't really create, doesn't have much wiggle to his game, etc.
Kuz - Least flawed of the bunch. Defense is currently a flaw. However, he's definitely improved defensively. I don't think I remember seeing him block a shot last year... I've seen a few this year already. He's not nearly as bad on defense as many here make him out to be.

[john248]

Ingram is the only one I have faith in even though he looks completely lost out there with LeBron.

I doubt Ball ever becomes an all-star. He's not aggressive enough as a scorer and may not develop the skills to be a good scorer.

Defense is the main thing holding back Kuzma.

Of course these guys have flaws. We're talking year 2 or 3 guys.

[DEEP3CL]

Microwave/knee jerk reaction here....guys today view players through a small scope now to the point we don't give them time to develop. Kuzma...year 2, Ingram... year 3, Zo...year 2. It's like come on man let them work out the flaws and kinks before we can say their all star material.

People seem to for get Kobe didn't even get to all star level until year 3 and he wasn't even a starter yet. Yeah we saw a load of potential in Kobe but even at 20 he was still doing "high school type" crap on the court. But he made the all star team because he had a following outside of LA that appealed to younger fans his age and those who saw the potential.

Kobe was younger than all those guys when he got to all star level but lets not forget he had a way better foundation, a different league structure wise, different style of play also. These players today are being forced into a "get it done now" mode teams have created...it's why we have guys that are done and labeled bust in about 4 years.

Gotta wait period.

[kblo247]

Microwave/knee jerk reaction here....guys today view players through a small scope now to the point we don't give them time to develop. Kuzma...year 2, Ingram... year 3, Zo...year 2. It's like come on man let them work out the flaws and kinks before we can say their all star material.

People seem to for get Kobe didn't even get to all star level until year 3 and he wasn't even a starter yet. Yeah we saw a load of potential in Kobe but even at 20 he was still doing "high school type" crap on the court. But he made the all star team because he had a following outside of LA that appealed to younger fans his age and those who saw the potential.

Kobe was younger than all those guys when he got to all star level but lets not forget he had a way better foundation, a different league structure wise, different style of play also. These players today are being forced into a "get it done now" mode teams have created...it's why we have guys that are done and labeled bust in about 4 years.

Gotta wait period.

Deep Kobe was an all star in year 2. He was going at MJ in year two playing behind an all star back court. He wasn't an all star the next year because the lockout occurred but he was an all nba, all defense, and championship caliber player that could outplay shaq in game 7 at 21.

Kobe did not need to be handed over starting spots, shots, have his feelings coddled, or anything else. Ingram, Ball, Russell, Randle, Clarkson are all victims of hype machine and babying. Hell the only Laker to actually play well since he got drafted and this year is Kuz who is baby Melo stat wise right now and in year 1. Hart, Ingram, Ball all have apologists. Kobe was a get **** done guy even at his lowest as a teen airballing in Utah, he took that **** and didn't pass it off on anyone

[Dr Aki]

the kids don't have that mentality yet.

all they've known is losing. most still can't go toe to toe with most of their nightly matchups. they don't believe they're better than their competition yet. they don't have the self confidence to truly express themselves yet.

these kids aren't kobe. and expecting them to be kobe is setting them up for failure and a sure-fire way to be disappointed

that's why magic brought in lebron, brought in rondo, brought in mcgee, these are the types of locker room leaders that are here to build the kids up and they have an entire season to do it.

[myersia]

I wish we could get Zion somehow. This dude looks like the most promising player since Lebron. He’s going to be an all star right out of the gate next year


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[One Love]

Funny how 75% of the board doesn’t think any of the young core will be All Stars but wouldn’t trade two of them for Butler, George or Davis... I hope we save this post for future reference...

Lakeshow Baby...

[kblo247]

the kids don't have that mentality yet.

all they've known is losing. most still can't go toe to toe with most of their nightly matchups. they don't believe they're better than their competition yet. they don't have the confidence truly express themselves yet.

these kids aren't kobe. and expecting them to be kobe is setting them up for failure and a sure-fire way to be disappointed

that's why magic brought in lebron, brought in rondo, brought in mcgee, these are the types of locker room leaders that are here to build the kids up and they have an entire season to do it.

But they are lotto picks. Magic, Worthy, Kobe that’s the standard for laker lotto picks. If they can’t hold to it too bad, don’t need em.

The most frustrating thing with Ingram for me is that you can tell he learned how to post up, how to shoot, how to do this or that, but was too lazy to perfect any of it this summer. When Kobe went to learn the fade-away he didn’t just learn the mechanics and say oh well, no he practiced and applied the shot. The same was true when Kobe went to Hakeem, he repeated it over and over and then applied it. You can tell the biggest different between a Kuzma and Ingram on O is that Ingram learned how to do it but didn’t put in repition like with Kuzma hooks, drop steps, etc. which is one reason it should be Kuzma and not Ingram being gone to late in games.

We keep talking about what Ingram May be with Pippen comparison, but fact is Kuzma is baby Melo now and he’s highlighted less than Ingram which is absurd

[dockingsched]

Funny how 75% of the board doesn’t think any of the young core will be All Stars but wouldn’t trade two of them for Butler, George or Davis... I hope we save this post for future reference...

Lakeshow Baby...

this seems like a total oversimplification of all the factors in play. how much you value your own young core and how much potential you see in them is just one factor in any trade scenario.

have to take into risk of losing the targeted player in free agency, likelihood you can get him in free agency without losing any pieces, financial flexibility afforded by rookie contracts to make other moves, potential trade targets the young core could be used for to complement free agent targets, etc.

[Landsberger]

Microwave/knee jerk reaction here....guys today view players through a small scope now to the point we don't give them time to develop. Kuzma...year 2, Ingram... year 3, Zo...year 2. It's like come on man let them work out the flaws and kinks before we can say their all star material.

People seem to for get Kobe didn't even get to all star level until year 3 and he wasn't even a starter yet. Yeah we saw a load of potential in Kobe but even at 20 he was still doing "high school type" crap on the court. But he made the all star team because he had a following outside of LA that appealed to younger fans his age and those who saw the potential.

Kobe was younger than all those guys when he got to all star level but lets not forget he had a way better foundation, a different league structure wise, different style of play also. These players today are being forced into a "get it done now" mode teams have created...it's why we have guys that are done and labeled bust in about 4 years.

Gotta wait period.

Yeah..... but you and I know for every Kobe there are a dozen who ARE very close to their potential after 2 years as well. I could list a dozen top 5 picks from the last 10 drafts who area all decent players but didn't grow much after year 2. A few of those top 5 guys are out of the league as well.

I'd say that the trajectory is as key as the time involved. I think Ingram has some growth left but he's not gaining 25lbs and developing a crushing post game. He's not a real solution as an initiator either. He can do it but not better than 90% of the guards in the league. He's not Simmons for example.... nor will he be. Ball has some very big holes to fill. Now I think he can close some of them to the point they are not glaring as they are now. Give him some time for sure. Kuzma has a few holes the biggest of which is consistency in things other than scoring. We've seen him play good defense, distribute, play with his back to the basket and rebound.... not all in the same game is the gap with him.

One reason we can't wait for them for more than about 3 years is the fact that we will have to re-sign them. If Ingram is 90% there I wouldn't invest in him for a max contract for 5 years. You can still trade them for a good return in year 3 which is typically the year top picks are traded it seems.

All of that said... All Stars are not that important. Having a balanced team that can grow together is.

[milesfides]

If Lonzo Ball's shooting and health hold up, how is he not going to be one of the best point guards, let alone just an all-star?

A nightly triple double threat, hitting 40% of his threes, and playing great defense? On top of that, there's STILL upside - kid is a low-usage player and turned 21 a couple weeks ago.

[Michael Lucky]

If Lonzo Ball's shooting and health hold up, how is he not going to be one of the best point guards, let alone just an all-star?

A nightly triple double threat, hitting 40% of his threes, and playing great defense? On top of that, there's STILL upside - kid is a low-usage player and turned 21 a couple weeks ago.

He's not a nightly anything when he disappears for 20 minutes at a time.

Kuzma is an inefficient volume scorer that can do nothing else.

Ingram doesnt play team ball.

Not looking great for right now.

Yes Lonzo would be our best bet but again he disappears and takes games off.

[iamworthy]

It took Victor Oladipo a minute to find his way.

[milesfides]

Kids are going to be alright.

[Speedlot]

If Lonzo Ball's shooting and health hold up, how is he not going to be one of the best point guards, let alone just an all-star?

A nightly triple double threat, hitting 40% of his threes, and playing great defense? On top of that, there's STILL upside - kid is a low-usage player and turned 21 a couple weeks ago.

He's not a nightly anything when he disappears for 20 minutes at a time.

Kuzma is an inefficient volume scorer that can do nothing else.

Ingram doesnt play team ball.

Not looking great for right now.

Yes Lonzo would be our best bet but again he disappears and takes games off.

19 pts on 49% is kuzma. Back up your thoughts with stats perhaps?

[kblo247]

If Lonzo Ball's shooting and health hold up, how is he not going to be one of the best point guards, let alone just an all-star?

A nightly triple double threat, hitting 40% of his threes, and playing great defense? On top of that, there's STILL upside - kid is a low-usage player and turned 21 a couple weeks ago.

He's not a nightly anything when he disappears for 20 minutes at a time.

Kuzma is an inefficient volume scorer that can do nothing else.

Ingram doesnt play team ball.

Not looking great for right now.

Yes Lonzo would be our best bet but again he disappears and takes games off.

Kuzma isn’t Kobe but he’s damn closer to Melos career path than any Ingram is to KD/Pippen, Ball is to Kidd, or Hart is to being anything but a role guy.

Kuzma had the numbers last year and had them this year that back him

[Michael Lucky]

If Lonzo Ball's shooting and health hold up, how is he not going to be one of the best point guards, let alone just an all-star?

A nightly triple double threat, hitting 40% of his threes, and playing great defense? On top of that, there's STILL upside - kid is a low-usage player and turned 21 a couple weeks ago.

He's not a nightly anything when he disappears for 20 minutes at a time.

Kuzma is an inefficient volume scorer that can do nothing else.

Ingram doesnt play team ball.

Not looking great for right now.

Yes Lonzo would be our best bet but again he disappears and takes games off.

19 pts on 49% is kuzma. Back up your thoughts with stats perhaps?

I wasn't aware of that we were using FG% as an actual indicator of anything still. His scoring efficiency is 1.24 even after last nights game which is lower than the team average. He is giving us 4.8 rpg out of the PF spot. That's some Brook Lopez rebounding. 1.5APG... and wait for it

0.27 SPG, ouch

So yes, he's an inneficient volume scorer (At least until he improves his FTr) that literally does nothing else.

[One Love]

Melo is a great match for Kuzz & I would be very happy if we get that kind of player with the 27th pick, not the 3rd pick, and you guys should too...

Ingram will be traded by Feberuary as he simply doesn’t fit with LBJ & the boys...

Ball has all the tools and IQ but will need to put the ball in the bucket from time to time...

Lakeshow Baby...

[Speedlot]

He's not a nightly anything when he disappears for 20 minutes at a time.

Kuzma is an inefficient volume scorer that can do nothing else.

Ingram doesnt play team ball.

Not looking great for right now.

Yes Lonzo would be our best bet but again he disappears and takes games off.

19 pts on 49% is kuzma. Back up your thoughts with stats perhaps?

I wasn't aware of that we were using FG% as an actual indicator of anything still. His scoring efficiency is 1.24 even after last nights game which is lower than the team average. He is giving us 4.8 rpg out of the PF spot. That's some Brook Lopez rebounding. 1.5APG... and wait for it

0.27 SPG, ouch

So yes, he's an inneficient volume scorer (At least until he improves his FTr) that literally does nothing else.

Uh why are you looking at rebounds, assist, and steals? What kind of bs strawman is this. You claimed he was inefficient as a scorer, when no he's not.

Shooting 50% FG means you can't be labeled an inefficient volume scorer. That's the whole definition of the damn label. Looking at his EFG only helps him more. His EFG is even higher than Lebron right now, and he's just shooting 4 less than lerbon a game.

And what's more, a lot of his shots (5 per game )are threes which he's been shooting just ok(31%). Which furthers tells you how damn efficient he is despite the fact. If kyle can score 30 pts on 49% efficiency, he'd be a superstar. Right now he's borderline ALL-Star, which is damn better than what any other teammate of his has done.(ok maybe McGee has been better)

Don't let your blind emotions cloud you with the raws stats that kyle has produced. It goes both ways. You shouldn't use too much numbers or too much "OMG DID U WATCH HIM PLAY" to judge a player's contribution.

[Michael Lucky]

You are using FG% while I'm using his scoring efficiency. Heck even his TS% is average atm. He can do nothing else on the floor. He can't playmake, he can't rebound, and he can't play defense. Those are all facts atm.