We finna get Kyrie-d

[Danny Darko]

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[MAMBAEMD]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

[tamaraw08]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thin is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

Oh man, I wish I get a dollar every time I read the Kyrie trade talk is getting serious.

[Danny Darko]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

Turner & Hield >> Kyrie

We need bodies and Kyrie may not even show up or be able to play while he vacations on flat earth.

[tamaraw08]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

Turner & Hield >> Kyrie

We need bodies and Kyrie may not even show up or be able to play while he vacations on flat earth.

Kyrie on the last year of his contract might inspire him to be on his best behavior. But if they include Seth, I’ll throw in the picks esp if this is true

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[DanishLakerFan]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

Turner & Hield >> Kyrie

We need bodies and Kyrie may not even show up or be able to play while he vacations on flat earth.

I would give the edge to Kyrie. He has the highest upside and he would probably come with either Joe Harris or Seth Curry. But its close and i Turner and Hield would improve both in terms of shooting, interior defense and as a safety in case (when) AD gets hurt.

I would probably throw in Gordon Hayward + Terry Rozier as a potential trade target as well. Those two would be expensive, but the fit is good.

[sonnyhill]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

Turner & Hield >> Kyrie

We need bodies and Kyrie may not even show up or be able to play while he vacations on flat earth.

I would give the edge to Kyrie. He has the highest upside and he would probably come with either Joe Harris or Seth Curry. But its close and i Turner and Hield would improve both in terms of shooting, interior defense and as a safety in case (when) AD gets hurt.

I would probably throw in Gordon Hayward + Terry Rozier as a potential trade target as well. Those two would be expensive, but the fit is good.

Great call on Hayward and Rozier.

Hayward spotting up on the perimeter would give both LeBron and AD a lethal compliment.

Rozier, whom I really like, is a MJ favorite and may be impossible to include in a trade.

Question: How serviceable is Hayward when it comes to perimeter defense?

[DanishLakerFan]

Turner & Hield >> Kyrie

We need bodies and Kyrie may not even show up or be able to play while he vacations on flat earth.

I would give the edge to Kyrie. He has the highest upside and he would probably come with either Joe Harris or Seth Curry. But its close and i Turner and Hield would improve both in terms of shooting, interior defense and as a safety in case (when) AD gets hurt.

I would probably throw in Gordon Hayward + Terry Rozier as a potential trade target as well. Those two would be expensive, but the fit is good.

Great call on Hayward and Rozier.

Hayward spotting up on the perimeter would give both LeBron and AD a lethal compliment.

Rozier, whom I really like, is a MJ favorite and may be impossible to include in a trade.

Question: How serviceable is Hayward when it comes to perimeter defense?

Rozier is solid but slightly overpaid. Hayward vastly overpaid. It would be a chance for Hornets to re-set and save a ton of money.

Hayward is average as a defender.

[Karmaloop]

Great call on Hayward and Rozier.

Hayward spotting up on the perimeter would give both LeBron and AD a lethal compliment.

Rozier, whom I really like, is a MJ favorite and may be impossible to include in a trade.

Question: How serviceable is Hayward when it comes to perimeter defense?

In terms of fit, it's probably the near ideal situation. But it pretty much caps the Lakers' next offseason, and Hayward's injury history is daunting. I'm not tripping over myself to rid the Hornets' of their bad contracts.

[DanishLakerFan]

Great call on Hayward and Rozier.

Hayward spotting up on the perimeter would give both LeBron and AD a lethal compliment.

Rozier, whom I really like, is a MJ favorite and may be impossible to include in a trade.

Question: How serviceable is Hayward when it comes to perimeter defense?

In terms of fit, it's probably the near ideal situation. But it pretty much caps the Lakers' next offseason, and Hayward's injury history is daunting. I'm not tripping over myself to rid the Hornets' of their bad contracts.

Rozier and Hayward really would be fantastic as they provide the shooting and ball-handling we need to support Lebron. I wouldn't be too worried about Hayward either.

In a perfect world we manage to somehow get Turner as well, so Hayward-Rozier for WB. Then Turner for THT-Nunn+picks.


In all honesty i just hope they get something done. You can make a case for either Kyrie vs. Turner/Hield vs. whatever else is out there, but the fact of the matter is that the team wont win a title as currently constructed.

[zuju]

I actually would not rush for the WB trade. The higher the desire, the more we have to give out and the less we can get in return. That means picks or nunn and/or THT.

WB's value will be highest by trade deadline. And, recently signed free agents would be eligible to be traded. We would have more options out there when teams finally set to tank and get rid of salaries.

Don't rush. We have a complete roster. We may not be top tier. Playoff is the floor if LBJ and AD are healthy. Remember , Lakers only took off after Pau arrive in the mid season. They were merely a playoff team before that. Hold strong and not cross the line we set.

[ChantMVP]

I can't believe anyone in their right minds would refuse to deal Russel Westbrick for Kyrie Irving.

Who cares about two draft picks?? isn't the goal to win now while your goat level player still has some juice left? you are killing two birds with one stone - removing the worst point guard possible coming off a dumpster fire season & getting paid 47million to be a misfit, while receiving one of the most dynamic pgs in the league who is a proven champion fit next to lebron.

lebron and Kyrie + scrubs Alone formed one of the best teams ever. now imagine adding Anthony Davis to the mix. it will be the best big 3 in the league by far, Lakers will cruse to the WCF. doesnt matter who fills out the roster.

instead you will all be doomed to another season of banging your head against the wall every other night, doing the same thing over again expecting a different result.

all because of one measly draft pick.

look in the dam mirror.

Reminder: Kyrie dropped 62 points a few months ago.

[Landsberger]

I can't believe anyone in their right minds would refuse to deal Russel Westbrick for Kyrie Irving.

Who cares about two draft picks?? isn't the goal to win now while your goat level player still has some juice left? you are killing two birds with one stone - removing the worst point guard possible coming off a dumpster fire season & getting paid 47million to be a misfit, while receiving one of the most dynamic pgs in the league who is a proven champion fit next to lebron.

lebron and Kyrie + scrubs Alone formed one of the best teams ever. now imagine adding Anthony Davis to the mix. it will be the best big 3 in the league by far, Lakers will cruse to the WCF. doesnt matter who fills out the roster.

instead you will all be doomed to another season of banging your head against the wall every other night, doing the same thing over again expecting a different result.

all because of one measly draft pick.

look in the dam mirror.

Reminder: Kyrie dropped 62 points a few months ago.

While I agree.... we're not winning anything swapping WB for Kyrie either. The elephant in the room is the Bron/Davis combo is deeply flawed, old, and injury prone. Giving up 2 FR picks to get 10 games closer isn't how I'd spend that collateral.

[zuju]

I can't believe anyone in their right minds would refuse to deal Russel Westbrick for Kyrie Irving.

Who cares about two draft picks?? isn't the goal to win now while your goat level player still has some juice left? you are killing two birds with one stone - removing the worst point guard possible coming off a dumpster fire season & getting paid 47million to be a misfit, while receiving one of the most dynamic pgs in the league who is a proven champion fit next to lebron.

lebron and Kyrie + scrubs Alone formed one of the best teams ever. now imagine adding Anthony Davis to the mix. it will be the best big 3 in the league by far, Lakers will cruse to the WCF. doesnt matter who fills out the roster.

instead you will all be doomed to another season of banging your head against the wall every other night, doing the same thing over again expecting a different result.

all because of one measly draft pick.

look in the dam mirror.

Reminder: Kyrie dropped 62 points a few months ago.

Obviously, Kyrie can make the team a lot better. You assumed that Kyrie and Bron alone with scrubs can form a contending team. The reality is 1. they have very solid third star and role players in Kevin Love, TT, JR smith etc. 2. Bron is much older and fragile as compared to a few years ago. This game inevitably regressed in many aspects. and 3. Kyrie is an uncrtainty now. He did not left the team without a notice to his coach / team in Cavs, Vaccine issue was seemly his own decision, his refusal did cause him missed gamessssss which in turn hurt the team.

By the time when he missed games due to unpredictable reasons, are you trying to trade him away again? And are you going to attach more picks with him to get rid of him? Or are you willing to endure that? The majority of us believed that even if he keep self-disciplined, the team is not going to win it this year. The question will then be:

If the team is not winning before and after the trade, do you still want to sacrifice your future picks to get Kyrie? If the answer is "No", who and when will you trade WB ? Some advocated to trade WB in the Summer, Some, like me, doesn't mind keeping him for another half season so that we can get someone better in return with more opportunities during All-star break.

[JKiddy]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

If KD stays and says Kyrie has to go then there might be a trade. I do not feel like you could receive a player of Kyrie's quality for less than 2 1sts and a solid player not named Westbrook in return so a multi-team trade would have to happen.

What do you think that would look like.. with a big IF... IF this would happen in a world where we all do not know?

[MAMBAEMD]

I have a feeling the Kyrie thing is coming back up soon.

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

I'd give up one FRP to get it done, but I'd wait it out for a while before I do that.

That would be a great upgrade. But it's not nearly enough. We need wing defenders, ala Danny Green, KCP etc..

I prefer Turner and Hield, if that option is available.

If KD stays and says Kyrie has to go then there might be a trade. I do not feel like you could receive a player of Kyrie's quality for less than 2 1sts and a solid player not named Westbrook in return so a multi-team trade would have to happen.

What do you think that would look like.. with a big IF... IF this would happen in a world where we all do not know?

I agree that it would have to be at least a 3 team trade. And I don't think the Lakers will give up 2 FRPs if the return is just Kyrie.

If the return includes Buddy or Harris, or possibly Eric Gordon, the Lakers may give up a combination of THT or Nunn, or another FRP.
In either scenario, Russ would have to go.

[danfantastk32]

I do not feel like you could receive a player of Kyrie's quality for less than 2 1sts and a solid player not named Westbrook in return so a multi-team trade would have to happen.

This is where the Lakers need to hold strong. If I'm the Nets, I don't want Westbrook. Why would they? He sucks, he's massively overpaid. He's not gonna listen to anyone, and just do his thing. He and Durant have a beef that's gonna be more toxic than Kyrie, and when it's all said and done, he's out in a year. Why not just do the same with Kyrie...except save $10-12 mil?

So I think your correct that a 3-team deal will have to happen, but it again hinges on the fact that your not getting anything good for Westbrook. It's why I don't buy the whole "we'll be competitive if we get Hield and Turner" thing. A) Have the Pacers won a game in the last 5 years? If so....I haven't seen it. They obviously aren't great. B) Why in the hell would the Pacers entertain trading them for freakin Westbrook if they brought ANYTHING to the table? I mean, stop and think about that one. It's one pair of cast-offs for another. Do the Nets want those cast-offs?

If they do, then great....we have a deal.

Everyone gets what they want. We get anything but Westbrook. Pacers can start over in a year. Nets get rid of Kyrie...possibly sell Durant on these role-players around him.

Where in any of that, do we need to get rid of 2 picks?? Other than it's become customary for the Lakers to shell out whatever it takes to make a deal happen quickly. So I say F that.

Kyrie will be next to impossible to move, should his stint with us go south. So we're likely to be stuck with a "Westbrook" yet again. For what? Kyrie's not going to get us much further towards a title. He and AD are going to be one sad-sorry pair of stars down the line when Lebron leaves. The over/under on how many games they actually play together in a year will be humorous.

So in essence, we're renting the guy for a year. If it goes amazing, then great. We look at something long term. But the Lakers really need to think long and hard about tying themselves long term to the pair of AD and Kyrie. Makes me shudder to think of it.

That's where I am at least. If these teams want to do a straight up trade....great. Otherwise, F it. We move on, and see if anything else happens. Kyrie aint getting us a title. So I don't worry about what we missed.

[TheHartBreakKid]

Why the Lakers shouldn't offer the 2 1st rounder, right now:

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This is all the leverage the Lakers need regarding the Nets right now, up until opening day. Kyrie is simply not good/reliable enough right now for anyone to take a chance with him on a rental, and as long he only wants to be Laker, the nets really, simply, have no other options than to take a single first for him, sooner or later. They know they will have a deal somewhere with either Indy, Utah, or Charlotte. Charlotte and Indi deals aren't going anywhere. There is seemingly zero traction regarding either team having any type of momentum on trade talks. Yes Utah's situation might change if they trade Mitchell, but you still have 2 choices that will very likely be available at the deadline.

Why the Nets shouldn't accept the single 1st round package right now

There is also no reason for the Nets to trade Kyrie right now. Most important thing for them is trading KD. It makes no sense for them trade Kyrie now, not because there is such a high chance that KD and/or Kyrie change their minds, but mainly because trading Kyrie right now for a salary dump would decrease their leverage for any KD trade. Kyrie's presence still gives some level of concern to a team trying to trade for KD right now. For a team that wants KD, Kyrie's presence makes them think:
"hmm what if KD does change his mind and gives it a last go with Kyrie?"
"What if the Nets pull off a win-now trade for Kyrie down the line and KD changes his mind then". The Nets have zero reason to take a RW and single first trade b] right now[/b].They know the single draft pick would also be available at the deadline. If the Lakers trade RW, then the Nets all of a sudden get more potential trade partners for Kyrie (Lakers wouldn't have the capspace leverage anymore, and Kyrie would have to open up to other destinations or risk sitting out the whole year).


Note that for both teams' perspective, I'm talking about right now, up until opening day. Once opening day does happen, the Lakers obviously have more of an incentive to make a trade happen.

Why I'm glad the Lakers are playing the long game, as a Laker fan-

I've gone back and forth on this, but when considering all the above and giving it a lot of thought, I think it's in the Lakers' best interest to not budge. Allow me to explain my though process:

The Laker were still in the playoff picture last year by the deadline, and that's including AD missing a lot of time and Nunn not playing at all Yes Lebron is a year older, and obviously, chemistry might be worse this year with Russell, and there is the likely chance that you would simply have to sit him. As bad as RW was to start the year, an AD injury would be even more devastating if we don't have Russell or a Russ replacement. That risk is there, but if Russ is sitting out, you are also getting some benefits with team defense and on court chemistry, especially if Ham does a good job. If Russ doesn't sit out, he would still play hard considering he's an expiring contract, and while the tension might be worse than last year, it's hard to think that the team could have a much worse start compared to last year.

Additionally, the West has lost some depth imo. When looking at the other west teams that didn't make the play-in, you could expect Sacramento and Portland to be better. That said, it's hard for me to see them being way over .500 towards the deadline. OKC and Houston still won't be ready. SA will be weaker this year and also out of the picture imo.

Now, looking at the teams that did make the play-in last year, you have Utah is basically dropping out of the race. Yes, minny, NO, and a healthy clippers should be better on paper, and it's unlikely to see any of the other playoff teams dropping out. But this team should have an easier time making the play-in this year compared to the last. You really just have to be close enough to top the Kings and Blazers.

Now don't get me wrong, aiming to make the play-in at the 10th spot is obviously far, far ideal, but this is also a worst case scenario (other than Ad& Lebron being out at the same time, which to be fair, we would be screwed either way). The Nets might budge way earlier. AD might actually stay healthy. The coaching and team defense might improve more than expected.

It's very, very risky, but this team, even with Kyrie from the start, is unlikely to be favored in a second round series in the west. This is a team that has a puncher's chance as a dark horse, with or without Kyrie. I don't think playing it safe makes sense. Kyrie, even if he's joined by Curry/Harris/some other minor piece from a third team, isn't enough. Your only chance really is to get Kyrie (and hopefully Harris/Curry) AND trade THT and/or Nunn with the additional 1st for an impact player (Turner/Hield)

Obviously nothing is given, but it's not that unrealistic for the Nets to budge way earlier than expected, in order to take a single 1st with minimal/zero protections, and a couple of seconds, instead of having to settle for a more protected single first at the deadline. But even if they don't, here is how I would play it out:

- Figure out if Russ would be sitting or playing if he's on the roster on opening day. Do you even want to play him? Would he been willing to play? .
- If Russ is holding out/being sent home, sign Schroder with the last roster spot. If Russ is going to play, keep that spot open.
- Hope for the best regarding injuries, and atleast play close to 0.500 ball.
- Assuming the extreme worst case doesn't happen with injuriesand you managed to do the above, make the following 2 trades at the deadline (hopefully earlier if the Nets budge):

1. Trade THT,1st rounder for Myles Turner. (ideal even if you have little/minimum protection) OR the same package for Hield (would probably be more favorable in terms of protection).

2. Trade Russ and 1st rounder for Kyrie/Harris (I'm not going to get greedy and ask for Curry).

Roster to finish out the season (with Turner) after waving Gabriel:

Kyrie/Nunn/Schroder/Pippen (2 way)
Harris/Reeves/Brown
Lebron/Walker/ Christie (with Harris,Reeves and Brown)
AD/Stanley/JTA (with Lebron and maybe even Turner for spot minutes)
Jones/Bryant (With AD) / O'neal (2 way)


Roster to finish out the season (With Hield), after waving Schroder:


Kyrie/Nunn/Pippen (2 way)
Hield/Harris/Reeves
Lebron/Walker/ Brown/ Christie (with Harris,Reeves and Brown)
AD/Stanley/JTA/Gabriel (with Lebron)
Jones/Bryant (With AD)/ O'neal (2 way)


You're all in for this year, and most likely for another full season assuming Lebron/Kyrie stay.

[TheHartBreakKid]

I forgot to mention: There is obviously a low chance that Kyrie and/or KD change their minds, or some ballsy team trades for both of them.
Additionally, there is obviously a low chance that the Nets refuse to take a first at the deadline out of spite, or some stupid team decides to outbid the lakers for a Kyrie rental.

Going by plan, if either of the above unlikely evens occur, we are simply screwed, and the gamble will be considered a failure. If it was up to me though, I'm willing to take that chance. Not sure if the FO or Lebron are willing to take that chance though.

[JKiddy]

I appreciate all of your input here. One thing you guys need to understand is that the Nets are not going to trade Curry or Harris as a throw in. The Nets need shooters very badly. They waited a year to get Harris back. Both Seth and Joe are Top 5 shooters in the league. It is tough to get a good shooter these days.

Let's see where this meeting goes this week. It will be up to our FO and Owner to decide what our team will look like next year. You are correct in that we will not take Westbrook. It will likely take you guys trading a first or two to get him on someone else's books because he is past his prime and is not listening to anyone about being a team player (ala Iverson in his last few seasons). It sucks because he was a great player and could extend his career and earning potential if he just accepted a lesser role for the next season or two.