will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player?

LAKESHOW · Post #241 » by **LAKESHOW** » Fri Dec 6, 2019 11:29 pm

Siakam is a 4 year 130Million dollar nba champion. Surely no one is putting Kuz in that class of price range. Im saying he has good nights. Im saying he has qualities. No, not elite primetime player. But for the price we have him at, all would agree, hes earned that smaller pricetag/paycheck.
Weve had tons of Star players here. Tons of role players. No need to kill on a regular role player for our team.
Weve got 2 top rated players. Everyone else, fit in

lalalaker · Post #242 » by **lalalaker** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 3:15 am

kuzma is struggling to find a role with this new team where under luke walton he was given green light bc we only had lebron and we didnt make him play pg. He now comes off the bench but the offense will always go through lbj or davis leaving other teammates to scap for oppurtunities. we surely need more than lbj and davis to spread the points around so that they can sit most of the game and load manage per say

ROballer · Post #243 » by **ROballer** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 6:25 am

I kept using the injury excuse but it's been long due, since he came back for awhile now.
He just isn't fitting in with what we have. He'll have his good games once in a while but it's not enough since he's not doing much on the defensive end. We need solid offensive consistency.

Davis Bertans would be **** gold. If we can pull that off, nobody is beating us in a series.

nzahir · Post #244 » by **nzahir** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 6:43 am

ROballer wrote:I kept using the injury excuse but it's been long due, since he came back for awhile now.
He just isn't fitting in with what we have. He'll have his good games once in a while but it's not enough since he's not doing much on the defensive end. We need solid offensive consistency.

Davis Bertans would be **** gold. If we can pull that off, nobody is beating us in a series.

Bertans is probably more valuable to us rn

But here is the thing:
1) If we get Bertans and move Kuzma, is Bertans enough to be our 3rd scorer? Probably not. No real #3 on offense. Any move for a 3rd scorer or what?
2) We will have to pay Bertans 10-15M this year, which I am fine with.
3) Do the Wiz even want Kuzma or rather draft pick (I think pick)

ROballer · Post #245 » by **ROballer** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 6:55 am

Well apparently Kuzma isn't enough to be the 3rd scorer either. I've seen enough, 20 game stretch is a decent sample size.

If they want a near the end of the 1st round pick it's perfectly fine by me. I still think they'll take Kuzma. Rui is good but just a pup, and they had games in which they started both Wagner/Bryant. They can use a good big.

Bertans is the perfect piece. Leads the league in catch and shoot points, MAKES(not takes, but makes) almost 4 3's a game at 46% shooting clip from 3. We have a lot of guys who are ball dominant, we absolutely need a guy like this, getting his while spotting up and catching and shooting, especially since he's a big guy as well(we have too many guards).
He's not an absolute liability on D from what I've seen either, he's on par with Kuzma if not a little bit better.

We have only two guys on the team, Lebron and Danny Green who are attempting more 3's than this guy makes a game. And that's on the Wizards. Imagine the looks he'll get with teams doubling Lebron/Davis?

nzahir · Post #246 » by **nzahir** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 9:04 am

ROballer wrote:Well apparently Kuzma isn't enough to be the 3rd scorer either. I've seen enough, 20 game stretch is a decent sample size.

If they want a near the end of the 1st round pick it's perfectly fine by me. I still think they'll take Kuzma. Rui is good but just a pup, and they had games in which they started both Wagner/Bryant. They can use a good big.

Bertans is the perfect piece. Leads the league in catch and shoot points, MAKES(not takes, but makes) almost 4 3's a game at 46% shooting clip from 3. We have a lot of guys who are ball dominant, we absolutely need a guy like this, getting his while spotting up and catching and shooting, especially since he's a big guy as well(we have too many guards).
He's not an absolute liability on D from what I've seen either, he's on par with Kuzma if not a little bit better.

We have only two guys on the team, Lebron and Danny Green who are attempting more 3's than this guy makes a game. And that's on the Wizards. Imagine the looks he'll get with teams doubling Lebron/Davis?

Kinda selling me on Bertans instead of Kuzma. Kuzma has higher value imo (2 years for cheap and a cheap cap hold in 2021), but Bertans is a better fit and probably a better player rn (maybe not as a whole, but his 3 point shooting is unreal).

Kuzma also has more potential and wouldn't be paid this summer. So I would move Kuzma and Cook for Bertans, but I expect something small back.

I wonder if Raps and Wiz do this:

RAPS IN: Kuzma, 2023 LA 2nd, 2025 LA 2nd
RAPS OUT: Miller or Boucher, 2020 1st (lotto protected) and 2022 (lotto protected until 2024, if it doesn't ever reveal then 2025 and 2026 2nds)
Why: Get a scorer off the bench for cheap. Cheap cap hold in 2021. Lets them have Siakam, FVV, OG, Kuzma, and Giannis/Max space I believe (depends on cap and how much FVV take).

WIZ IN: 2020 Raps 1st, Cook, Miller or Boucher
WIZ OUT: Bertans
Why: Wiz already have such a high salary b/c of Wall so I think a 1st would benefit them rather than paying Bertans now or paying Kuzma even in 2 years.

LAL IN: Bertans, 2022 Raps 1st
LAL OUT: Kuzma, 2023 2nd, 2025 2nd
Why: We get a versatile wing//big sniper from 3 off the bench. Also get a future 1st

I feel like we are stealing value. But I think Kuzma is worth more than a late 1st. Anyone have better ideas? Not sure what teams Kuzma would make sense on rn.

Either a young team rebuilding or an older team who wants a spark plug off the bench, but needs a cheap salary.
Hou makes a lot of sense, but we wouldn't help them I think.
Utah makes some sense
Nuggets make some sense
Pelicans actually make sense ironically
Some teams that may blow it up at PF may make sense: Pistons, Cavs, Spurs

Pythagoras · Post #247 » by **Pythagoras** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 10:02 am

ROballer wrote:Well apparently Kuzma isn't enough to be the 3rd scorer either. I've seen enough, 20 game stretch is a decent sample size.

If they want a near the end of the 1st round pick it's perfectly fine by me. I still think they'll take Kuzma. Rui is good but just a pup, and they had games in which they started both Wagner/Bryant. They can use a good big.

Bertans is the perfect piece. Leads the league in catch and shoot points, MAKES(not takes, but makes) almost 4 3's a game at 46% shooting clip from 3. We have a lot of guys who are ball dominant, we absolutely need a guy like this, getting his while spotting up and catching and shooting, especially since he's a big guy as well(we have too many guards).
He's not an absolute liability on D from what I've seen either, he's on par with Kuzma if not a little bit better.

We have only two guys on the team, Lebron and Danny Green who are attempting more 3's than this guy makes a game. And that's on the Wizards. Imagine the looks he'll get with teams doubling Lebron/Davis?

I’m kinda surprised to see Kuz struggle this much. I always envisioned his ceiling as a Rashard Lewis type guy. That caliber of player is good enough as your third best player when your two best players are 2 of the 3 best players in the league.

He’s a talented scorer but man he just doesn’t have a good feel for the game. I like the idea of Bertrans though. He’d be a great fit.

ROballer · Post #248 » by **ROballer** » Sat Dec 7, 2019 1:16 pm

Watch on YouTube

Look at that pure stroke. Not just spot up set shots too, he's running and fighting through screens to get open.
He's made more than 4 3's in a game 11 times already this season. We as a whole team, as in all the guys combined have 13 such games.

We're beasting on O lately, to the point we have the 5th best off rating right now, but we're still 19th in 3 point makes and 9th in 3 point percentage. Getting better there with our already formidable defense(3rd overall rating) means we're getting pretty damn impossible to beat.

Just look at the Portland game what can happen when we're making our 3's. Now imagine getting somewhat consistent from there every game.

zuju · Post #249 » by **zuju** » Sun Dec 8, 2019 11:34 am

If we have warmed up the idea to trade Kuz, Rudy Gay would be my primary target.
Spurs may want a re-build sooner or later. They can get Kuz , a young and promising player, on the cheap and shed Gay's salary
Gay will be perfect for us. The only problem is how we could match the salary in the trade, and we futher sacrifice our future for a higher chance of present success.

We should also keep an eye on Dennis Smith Junior. Dude has the talent. But NY seems not liking him so much. A good chance for us to snap him up. Salary would not be hard to match. Yet, we would lose some size and 3-pt ability. In return, we have a possible very nice future duo in AD & DSJ post James era. If kevin knox could be somehow included in the trade, that would be awesome ( could only happen in the dream).

I like Frank Ntilikina & Markelle Fultz as well though they don't have DSJ's level of talent. Great Defensive player who is improving offensively (Fultz is still trying to regain his shot).

I would say, if the decision is on me, I will keep Kuzma at least until around all-star break to see if he could find his game again. His best plays were all those off ball movements which should compliment James well as he worked nice with Lonzo. He may eventually add arsenals like ball handling and driving etc. He seemed to work hard in the offseason but has yet to translate into real game situations. Give him more time, he may slowly find the way to incorporate what he learnt / trained into games.

Ballerhogger · Post #250 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sun Dec 8, 2019 1:10 pm

Very good role player but he’s getting better his defense has improved from last year

lalalaker · Post #251 » by **lalalaker** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 5:47 am

something i see this season is kuzma hesitant to make plays for himself which was wat it was working for him last season and before. I dont mind him being more selfish since we have to take some sort of load off lebron and AD. he has got to redefine his role again and dont be afraid to atk the basket.

NippySudz · Post #252 » by **NippySudz** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 6:31 am

lalalaker wrote:something i see this season is kuzma hesitant to make plays for himself which was wat it was working for him last season and before. I dont mind him being more selfish since we have to take some sort of load off lebron and AD. he has got to redefine his role again and dont be afraid to atk the basket.

That's what I was saying earlier. For a few games he's been horrible but in the last three games or so, he looks like he's not comfortable and trying to find his spots. The man is literally turning down shots to pass it to Caruso to handle the ball. I'm pretty sure that's not Vogel. At least not all the time. That's him not being comfortable imo.

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kobe808lak · Post #253 » by **kobe808lak** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 3:17 pm

Let's see how he looks in another 20 games, new role.. off injury. It's going to take a minute.

iamworthy · Post #254 » by **iamworthy** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 3:38 pm

Can we get bogdon bogdanovic?

Ball so hard · Post #255 » by **Ball so hard** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 5:07 pm

Trading Kuz for Bertans makes no sense lol. I can't believe people are even entertaining it. About the only thing Bertans is better at is shooting. Another PF is far from a need. If you have to trade Kuz, you trade him for a ball handling creator. Some people are simply trade-happy.

ROballer · Post #256 » by **ROballer** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 5:55 pm

I'm just gonna reply here since you're all over the place.

We have plenty of ball handlers. Remember what happened last year when we tried filling the roster with a gazillion playmakers? I'll wait...

Bertans is on pace for an all time top 10 3's made in a season and he's doing it in the high 40's. Yeah, he's just better than Kuzma at basically the only consistent thing we're lacking. :roll:

While havin an all time great season doing it.

He'll not get 8 3's a game, but 10 here. He's not afraid to shoot it unlike others. He'll have a gazillion more open shots here, dude is actually taking hard 3's, running all over the place to get open, since it's hard to get a double team benefit on the Wizards.

Parts like the Muscala and Zubac from the last thread peg you as a complete moron who should not be taken seriously. If you are one only you know, I didn't say it... but I know people who foe'd you because you a terrible poster in general.

Should I post the stats of our offense when we're hitting our 3's at a good clip or you're gonna put your big boy pants and look it yourself? Because that's what Bertans ensures, almost every game.

But yeah, what do I know. He's having an all time great shooting season and we don't need any of that actually. :roll:

Ball so hard · Post #257 » by **Ball so hard** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:10 pm

ROballer wrote:I'm just gonna reply here since you're all over the place.

We have plenty of ball handlers. Remember what happened last year when we tried filling the roster with a gazillion playmakers? I'll wait...

Bertans is on pace for an all time top 10 3's made in a season and he's doing it in the high 40's. Yeah, he's just better than Kuzma at basically the only consistent thing we're lacking. While havin an all time great season doing it.

He'll not get 8 3's a game, but 10 here. He's not afraid to shoot it unlike others. He'll have a gazillion more open shots here, dude is actually taking hard 3's, running all over the place to get open, since it's hard to get a double team benefit on the Wizards.

Parts like the Muscala and Zubac from the last thread peg you as a complete moron who should not be taken seriously. If you are one only you know, I didn't say it... but I know people who foe'd you because you a terrible poster in general.

Should I post the stats of our offense when we're hitting our 3's at a good clip or you're gonna put your big boy pants and look it yourself? Because that's what Bertans ensures, almost every game.

But yeah, what do I know. He's having an all time great shooting season and we don't need any of that actually.

ahhh the classic ad hominem. If you're going to attempt to insult someone, you should at least do it coherently. Honestly not even sure what you're trying to say in the bolded part since it's far too incoherent. Terrible poster? ok... says the guy who has like 10k post and barely any and1s.

I said ball handling creator, i.e someone to take Rondo's role. They're currently only two players on our entire roster that are adept at creating for others.

Stats of our offense when we're hitting our 3s... This is so profound. Water is wet. I'll give you an hint hint: Teams that hit 3s at a good clip will generally be productive on offense.

Your argument is so profound only a kid from middle school could make it. Who said anything about not needing 'great shooting.'

Let me know when you're ready to have a serious debate about anything. Ad hominems and insults are signs of weaknesses.

ROballer · Post #258 » by **ROballer** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:31 pm

You know what I'm talking about. This is about Kuzma and Bertans only yet you procedeed with the moronic take "gee, I bet you were THAT GUY, the guy who was happy with the Zubac for Muscala trade" without any semblance of truth because I never even mentioned those two on this forum. Straight up asinine moronic ass talking. I don't know who the **** you think you are throwing words in people's mouths(or words in posts on this matter) but I'll give you an advice. If you don't have a post to quote on, just don't assume things based on opinions made on other matters...

The fact that you judge quality of posting by **** and1's shows you are not the brightest bulb. I can throw a tantrum on the GB and get 100 and 1's per every post, does that make me more knowledgeable? You would you say so, I wouldn't...

Rondo is fine, there are a couple of "smart" guys like yourself who think otherwise... there is no need to replace him.
This team needs more shooting, not more playmakers. The eye test and stats back this up, your silly agenda against Rondo do not.
Neither your silly overrating of what Kuzma brings to the table on this team. Is he a better player than what is he showing right now? Sure... is he going to prove it on this team? Nope, I don't think so.

Sometimes it's about fit as well. And as much as you think you know about how things really work, Bertans is a better fit.
Arguably a better player, 100% a better fit. It's a championship year. You take fit and run with it.

ROballer · Post #259 » by **ROballer** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:37 pm

And I'll stop right there, don't bother quoting me again. I said what I had to say, Ty would probably voodoo me if I got banned and had to give up on the fantasy league team. :lol:

I'd rather win there than win here.

Ball so hard · Post #260 » by **Ball so hard** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 9:04 pm

ROballer wrote:You know what I'm talking about. This is about Kuzma and Bertans only yet you procedeed with the moronic take "gee, I bet you were THAT GUY, the guy who was happy with the Zubac for Muscala trade" without any semblance of truth because I never even mentioned those two on this forum. Straight up asinine moronic ass talking. I don't know who the **** you think you are throwing words in people's mouths(or words in posts on this matter) but I'll give you an advice. If you don't have a post to quote on, just don't assume things based on opinions made on other matters...

The fact that you judge quality of posting by **** and1's shows you are not the brightest bulb. I can throw a tantrum on the GB and get 100 and 1's per every post, does that make me more knowledgeable? You would you say so, I wouldn't...

Rondo is fine, there are a couple of "smart" guys like yourself who think otherwise... there is no need to replace him.
This team needs more shooting, not more playmakers. The eye test and stats back this up, your silly agenda against Rondo do not.
Neither your silly overrating of what Kuzma brings to the table on this team. Is he a better player than what is he showing right now? Sure... is he going to prove it on this team? Nope, I don't think so.

Sometimes it's about fit as well. And as much as you think you know about how things really work, Bertans is a better fit.
Arguably a better player, 100% a better fit. It's a championship year. You take fit and run with it.

It's not like my Zubac assumption was specious; The reasons for trading for Muscala are nearly identical those you've stated. We need shooting and better spacing, blah blah blah. Muscala was excellent at shooting prior to joining the Lakers. Bertans is currently lighting it up... you're arguing that we need more shooting. You've even made the ridiculous claim that we'd never score under 120 points if we get Bertans.

You can downplay and1s all you want...but whenever one is at the extreme end of the spectrum it's indicative of something. I never equated and1s to knowledge. You called me a terrible poster and I responded by pointing out your abysmal numbers. Can you think of a better way to judge post quality? I'd guess very few people post strictly for and1s.

I'm actually one of the biggest Rondo proponent (if there's such a thing) here. Overrating Kuz... when have I done this. This is preposterous, like just about everything else in your post. There also isn't any stat to back up your claim that we need more shooting and not playmaking, or creators as I put it. Please don't embarrass yourself by posting some stats that do not mean what you think they mean. Are you going to post that we're in the bottom half of the league in 3 point shooting? What else?