The LeBron Thread (merged)

[snaquille oatmeal]

LeBron is statistically one of the most clutch players of all time. Only stupid people still say he's not clutch.

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

[thebigbird]

LeBron is statistically one of the most clutch players of all time. Only stupid people still say he's not clutch.

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

Based on what? We saw his numbers of last second shots. Here are his numbers in elimination games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/5/25/17395268/lebron-james-elimination-game-stats-playoffs

If he doesn't have the clutch gene, who in NBA history does?

[myersia]

Not sure how credible this site is but https://www.google.com/amp/s/nesn.com/2019/02/nba-rumors-lakers-are-privately-concerned-about-lebron-james/amp/


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[dAdo dA dEvil]

LeBron is statistically one of the most clutch players of all time. Only stupid people still say he's not clutch.

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

Based on what? We saw his numbers of last second shots. Here are his numbers in elimination games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/5/25/17395268/lebron-james-elimination-game-stats-playoffs

If he doesn't have the clutch gene, who in NBA history does?

MJ and Kobe. These two are killers!

[Sedale Threatt]

LeBron is statistically one of the most clutch players of all time. Only stupid people still say he's not clutch.

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

It does not.

[milesfides]

Statistically? Statistically, Kobe did not play with two perennial all-star MVP candidate teammates. That makes a difference in providing context to that stat - the difficulty level of those clutch shots. When you have an elite big man floor spacer like Kevin Love and Chris Bosh, the paint is clear. With Shaq, the paint is clogged. Forget about getting a shot at the rim - impossible. Also, you can't throw the ball into Shaq because he was such a free throw liability, so that's extra pressure on Kobe. And of course, Kobe never had a competent playmaker on those championship teams. Lebron had elite guards in Dwayne Wade and Kyrie Irving to create shots for him or pull defenses away.

In other words, if Lebron was shooting a "clutch" shot, it was easier than the shots Kobe was taking. He had the floor spaced, he could get into his spots with ease. Kobe always had a severely flawed roster, and would have to take incredibly difficult shots. But we all know this from the eye-test or anybody else who watches the games. This is why coaches and players universally consider Kobe clutch -

They all know, better than you, that there is another dimension to being clutch than just time.

[Slink]

LeBron is statistically one of the most clutch players of all time. Only stupid people still say he's not clutch.

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

I would say he doesn't have the the killer in him when he has to. He's too busy being a prima donna.

[snaquille oatmeal]

LeBron is statistically one of the most clutch players of all time. Only stupid people still say he's not clutch.

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

Based on what? We saw his numbers of last second shots. Here are his numbers in elimination games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/5/25/17395268/lebron-james-elimination-game-stats-playoffs

If he doesn't have the clutch gene, who in NBA history does?

Not talking about numbers or how many opportunities to be clutch, I am talking about that killer instinct to want to take that shot. While Lebrons natural instinct is to make the pass first. Only as a last resort will he take the shot. Kobe and MJ on the other hand rather take an impossible shot than to pass the ball.

[thebigbird]

I wouldn’t say Lebron is not clutch, but I would say Lebron doesn’t have the clutch gene...if that makes any sense

Based on what? We saw his numbers of last second shots. Here are his numbers in elimination games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/5/25/17395268/lebron-james-elimination-game-stats-playoffs

If he doesn't have the clutch gene, who in NBA history does?

Not talking about numbers or how many opportunities to be clutch, I am talking about that killer instinct to want to take that shot. While Lebrons natural instinct is to make the pass first. Only as a last resort will he take the shot. Kobe and MJ on the other hand rather take an impossible shot than to pass the ball.

How does only take the shot as a last resort when he has more attempts than Jordan and Kobe both?

[thebigbird]

Statistically? Statistically, Kobe did not play with two perennial all-star MVP candidate teammates. That makes a difference in providing context to that stat - the difficulty level of those clutch shots. When you have an elite big man floor spacer like Kevin Love and Chris Bosh, the paint is clear. With Shaq, the paint is clogged. Forget about getting a shot at the rim - impossible. Also, you can't throw the ball into Shaq because he was such a free throw liability, so that's extra pressure on Kobe. And of course, Kobe never had a competent playmaker on those championship teams. Lebron had elite guards in Dwayne Wade and Kyrie Irving to create shots for him or pull defenses away.

In other words, if Lebron was shooting a "clutch" shot, it was easier than the shots Kobe was taking. He had the floor spaced, he could get into his spots with ease. Kobe always had a severely flawed roster, and would have to take incredibly difficult shots. But we all know this from the eye-test or anybody else who watches the games. This is why coaches and players universally consider Kobe clutch -

They all know, better than you, that there is another dimension to being clutch than just time.

Kobe played with prime Shaq, who had arguably the best peak of all-time. You don't need two all-star teammates when your one is going out and getting you 38 and 17.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Based on what? We saw his numbers of last second shots. Here are his numbers in elimination games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/5/25/17395268/lebron-james-elimination-game-stats-playoffs

If he doesn't have the clutch gene, who in NBA history does?

Not talking about numbers or how many opportunities to be clutch, I am talking about that killer instinct to want to take that shot. While Lebrons natural instinct is to make the pass first. Only as a last resort will he take the shot. Kobe and MJ on the other hand rather take an impossible shot than to pass the ball.

How does only take the shot as a last resort when he has more attempts than Jordan and Kobe both?

Because not all games are the same. Remember I said to disregard numbers but focus on the players DNA

[thebigbird]

Not talking about numbers or how many opportunities to be clutch, I am talking about that killer instinct to want to take that shot. While Lebrons natural instinct is to make the pass first. Only as a last resort will he take the shot. Kobe and MJ on the other hand rather take an impossible shot than to pass the ball.

How does only take the shot as a last resort when he has more attempts than Jordan and Kobe both?

Because not all games are the same. Remember I said to disregard numbers but focus on the players DNA

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. It's similar to the things we always hear about "killer instinct", "the look in his eyes", "clutch gene". All those things are subjective and cannot be measured. When you look at the numbers, LeBron has taken more shots and has a better percentage than both Kobe and Jordan.

[snaquille oatmeal]

How does only take the shot as a last resort when he has more attempts than Jordan and Kobe both?

Because not all games are the same. Remember I said to disregard numbers but focus on the players DNA

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. It's similar to the things we always hear about "killer instinct", "the look in his eyes", "clutch gene". All those things are subjective and cannot be measured. When you look at the numbers, LeBron has taken more shots and has a better percentage than both Kobe and Jordan.

Again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS. and when we talk about killer instinct and such you either have it or you don’t.

But since you are a numbers guy find out how many times has Lebron pass the ball in clutch situations vs Kobe or Mike?

[Kilroy]

Maybe we should stop calling it clutch... Maybe we should call it Killer Instinct and will to win...

[Sedale Threatt]

Even that doesn't fit given that LeBron has murdered plenty of teams, and won tons.

Now is there a whiff of underachievement, similar to Wilt? Perhaps. Given the standards that players like Jordan and Kareem and a handful of others have set, three championships seems a bit paltry. And, again, his disappearance in 2011 is a pretty massive blemish on the resume, about as big as any superstar in NBA history.

But when it comes to showing up in huge moments when your team needs you, not just on a final possession but the entire 48 minutes of a crucial playoff game, LeBron's resume still stacks up with almost anyone. I mean, holy sh*t, just look at the averages from that link in elimination games:

34.1 points, 11.0 rebounds, 7.5 assists

That is straight-up monstrous.

[thebigbird]

Because not all games are the same. Remember I said to disregard numbers but focus on the players DNA

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. It's similar to the things we always hear about "killer instinct", "the look in his eyes", "clutch gene". All those things are subjective and cannot be measured. When you look at the numbers, LeBron has taken more shots and has a better percentage than both Kobe and Jordan.

Again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS. and when we talk about killer instinct and such you either have it or you don’t.

But since you are a numbers guy find out how many times has Lebron pass the ball in clutch situations vs Kobe or Mike?

Killer instinct is a platitude that people resort to when the numbers aren't on your side. Does a player have "killer instinct" when he goes 5-22 on late game shots like Kobe did, instead of 12-23 like LeBron? Does a player have "killer instinct" if he forces up bad shots at the end of games instead of making the smart basketball play? LeBron showed plenty of "killer instinct" when he dropped 41 in back to back games in route to a 3-1 comeback against the 73-win Warriors in 2016.

[Sedale Threatt]

I never viewed it as a positive that, as Rick Fox put so well, Kobe thought his shot over two defenders was a better option than passing to a wide-open teammate. Which, of course, he still did plenty of times. For a player whose primary focus was to get his, Kobe was generally a pretty good playmaker. But not forcing a bad shot just because you're the top scorer isn't a weakness.

[dAdo dA dEvil]

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. It's similar to the things we always hear about "killer instinct", "the look in his eyes", "clutch gene". All those things are subjective and cannot be measured. When you look at the numbers, LeBron has taken more shots and has a better percentage than both Kobe and Jordan.

Again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS. and when we talk about killer instinct and such you either have it or you don’t.

But since you are a numbers guy find out how many times has Lebron pass the ball in clutch situations vs Kobe or Mike?

Killer instinct is a platitude that people resort to when the numbers aren't on your side. Does a player have "killer instinct" when he goes 5-22 on late game shots like Kobe did, instead of 12-23 like LeBron? Does a player have "killer instinct" if he forces up bad shots at the end of games instead of making the smart basketball play? LeBron showed plenty of "killer instinct" when he dropped 41 in back to back games in route to a 3-1 comeback against the 73-win Warriors in 2016.

41 is your measure for killer instinct? I don't know what to kall Kobe's 81 anymore. Wait, add up to the list when he outscored the whole Mavericks in 3 quarters.

[Sedale Threatt]

Again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS. and when we talk about killer instinct and such you either have it or you don’t.

But since you are a numbers guy find out how many times has Lebron pass the ball in clutch situations vs Kobe or Mike?

Killer instinct is a platitude that people resort to when the numbers aren't on your side. Does a player have "killer instinct" when he goes 5-22 on late game shots like Kobe did, instead of 12-23 like LeBron? Does a player have "killer instinct" if he forces up bad shots at the end of games instead of making the smart basketball play? LeBron showed plenty of "killer instinct" when he dropped 41 in back to back games in route to a 3-1 comeback against the 73-win Warriors in 2016.

41 is your measure for killer instinct? I don't know what to kall Kobe's 81 anymore. Wait, add up to the list when he outscored the whole Mavericks in 3 quarters.

In the Finals, driving the greatest comeback in NBA history? Followed by a triple-double with one of the most iconic defensive plays in NBA history, on the road, in Game 7, against the defending champion? Absolutely. If that's not subjective, narrative-driven "killer instinct," it does not exist.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. It's similar to the things we always hear about "killer instinct", "the look in his eyes", "clutch gene". All those things are subjective and cannot be measured. When you look at the numbers, LeBron has taken more shots and has a better percentage than both Kobe and Jordan.

Again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS. and when we talk about killer instinct and such you either have it or you don’t.

But since you are a numbers guy find out how many times has Lebron pass the ball in clutch situations vs Kobe or Mike?

Killer instinct is a platitude that people resort to when the numbers aren't on your side. Does a player have "killer instinct" when he goes 5-22 on late game shots like Kobe did, instead of 12-23 like LeBron? Does a player have "killer instinct" if he forces up bad shots at the end of games instead of making the smart basketball play? LeBron showed plenty of "killer instinct" when he dropped 41 in back to back games in route to a 3-1 comeback against the 73-win Warriors in 2016.

I can see that you really don’t get it. I really don’t know how long you have been watching Lebron but for the first half of his career the one thing that he was criticized the most was that he never took the last shot. He always deferred. I remember during one of the all star games he had the chance to win the game, but decided to pass. Kobe and Melo who played in the opposing team came over to tell him to take that shot. That is what I’m talking about. Lebron did learn to take the clutch shots but it is not natural for him to do so. If you don’t get what I’m saying the I’m out.

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