WE DID IT! (HIBBERT PRESS CONFERENCE EDITION)

[john248]

Hibbert was the centerpiece to some of the greatest defenses in NBA history. Advanced stats consistently show he was the best interior defender in the league. Marc Gasol winning DPOY over him a few years back was borderline criminal.

Oh stop it...fact.that roy has fallen like he has is enough proof of how overrated he is...dude is your typical slooth C, he wont be able to handle the PnR centric offense with his slow ass, hes gona be rather useless quickly once opposing teams get easy O on that PnR play

We seriously need to stop giving credit for all-stars C from the east. ...jamal maglore was an all-star once. Its a joke how terribly avg Cs in the east are, the best the east had last year was a no D stat padding Vucevic along with a Pf who plays C in Bosh

Oh stop it...fact.that roy has fallen like he has is enough proof of how overrated he is...dude is your typical slooth C, he wont be able to handle the PnR centric offense with his slow ass, hes gona be rather useless quickly once opposing teams get easy O on that PnR play

Everything I stated in my post is factual.

Marc was and is still a terrific PnR defender given his slowness, Roy couldnt dream of defending that play with any sort of effectiveness, dude is 7 2 and avg 6.6 rebs thats a dam joke and his big/tall as he is he should be avg more blks than he has been as of late

Are these just posts of ignorance and hyperbole? Your response is just as ridiculous as the guy you're quoting. Will Hibbert be useless? No. He will be a situational player and likely in the 20-25 mpg range while still being an elite rim protector.

Why do you care about making a point about the centers in the east? Bosh is actually a great player who played the positon ona championship team. It's just sad you're stuck on positional labels...

Also talk about not being self aware at all. You're praising Marc Gasol, yet do you not realize that Gasol isn't a strong volume rebounder and shot blocker? You're actually saying Hibbert should average more blocked shots as if having a high number of those is important. IT'S NOT. Being able to contest and alter shots is far more important which is what his length effectively does. You do understand that even with all the volume rebounds and shot blocking that DeAndre Jordon gets, he's really mediocre defending in comparison to Gasol. Or maybe you don't.

[LApwnd]

^^^i never said hes useless but to point out he was an all-star as if thats going to be relevant now is disingenuous. He was an all-star during against wrak competition. Dj had better stats and impact last season than Hibbert did his all-star season. Im not jumpimg for joy bout hibbert, i know he has a use here bjt fact his hos play has declined and hes a mental midget. If dude cant handle indy, hows he gona handle bright lights and pressure of la?

[Moooose]

@DEEP3CL: Very well said.

[john248]

^^^i never said hes useless but to point out he was an all-star as if thats going to be relevant now is disingenuous. He was an all-star during against wrak competition. Dj had better stats and impact last season than Hibbert did his all-star season. Im not jumpimg for joy bout hibbert, i know he has a use here bjt fact his hos play has declined and hes a mental midget. If dude cant handle indy, hows he gona handle bright lights and pressure of la?

Well just looking at their on/off, Hibbert was a full point better defensively when he was on the court in comparison to DAJ. DAJ does have the overall edge since he's a better offensive player which will keep him on the court longer. Sounds like you have a problem with the general board and projecting it here for selfish reasons.

[LApwnd]

^^^i never said hes useless but to point out he was an all-star as if thats going to be relevant now is disingenuous. He was an all-star during against wrak competition. Dj had better stats and impact last season than Hibbert did his all-star season. Im not jumpimg for joy bout hibbert, i know he has a use here bjt fact his hos play has declined and hes a mental midget. If dude cant handle indy, hows he gona handle bright lights and pressure of la?

Well just looking at their on/off, Hibbert was a full point better defensively when he was on the court in comparison to DAJ. DAJ does have the overall edge since he's a better offensive player which will keep him on the court longer. Sounds like you have a problem with the general board and projecting it here for selfish reasons.

What selfish reason? I dont like the guy and i dont think he's going to do much better here, whats wrong with having a different set of opinion? If im wrong, great for us and ill gladly eat crow and give roy his props next season

[john248]

^^^i never said hes useless but to point out he was an all-star as if thats going to be relevant now is disingenuous. He was an all-star during against wrak competition. Dj had better stats and impact last season than Hibbert did his all-star season. Im not jumpimg for joy bout hibbert, i know he has a use here bjt fact his hos play has declined and hes a mental midget. If dude cant handle indy, hows he gona handle bright lights and pressure of la?

Well just looking at their on/off, Hibbert was a full point better defensively when he was on the court in comparison to DAJ. DAJ does have the overall edge since he's a better offensive player which will keep him on the court longer. Sounds like you have a problem with the general board and projecting it here for selfish reasons.

What selfish reason? I dont like the guy and i dont think he's going to do much better here, whats wrong with having a different set of opinion? If im wrong, great for us and ill gladly eat crow and give roy his props next season

Getting on a soap box and complaining about east centers and who gets into an all-star game hardly matters. I'm not even explicitly talking about Hibbert. To cry about all-star appearances...just lol.

[76ciology]

Hibbert is actually a good center to play small ball with because of his ability to anchor the defense, he's pretty much like Bogut in some ways. I see you guys playing small ball with Russ&Kobe breaking down the defense and getting good looks for the other guys, then there's Randle who can attack the paint.

[john248]

Hibbert is actually a good center to play small ball with because of his ability to anchor the defense, he's pretty much like Bogut in some ways. I see you guys playing small ball with Russ&Kobe breaking down the defense and getting good looks for the other guys, then there's Randle who can attack the paint.

I don't have anything really against Hibbert. I've already typed out his problems in this thread. But what you're saying here is crazy.

I don't know if you missed it, but Golden State's small ball line-up, you know the one they won the championship with, had Bogut on the bench.

Maybe you did miss it.

[dipstick]

Hibbert is actually a good center to play small ball with because of his ability to anchor the defense, he's pretty much like Bogut in some ways. I see you guys playing small ball with Russ&Kobe breaking down the defense and getting good looks for the other guys, then there's Randle who can attack the paint.

I don't have anything really against Hibbert. I've already typed out his problems in this thread. But what you're saying here is crazy.

I don't know if you missed it, but Golden State's small ball line-up, you know the one they won the championship with, had Bogut on the bench.

Maybe you did miss it.

We shouldn't take away Bogut's contributions for the whole year and most of the playoffs wherein he was key in beating the stronger conference by going against bigs like Mark Gasol and Dwight Howard. Unless you are saying that Golden State could have gone through the whole season without Bogut? My opinion is that GSW played small ball even with Bogut on the floor. So in that sense, it isn't really so crazy.

[76ciology]

Hibbert is actually a good center to play small ball with because of his ability to anchor the defense, he's pretty much like Bogut in some ways. I see you guys playing small ball with Russ&Kobe breaking down the defense and getting good looks for the other guys, then there's Randle who can attack the paint.

I don't have anything really against Hibbert. I've already typed out his problems in this thread. But what you're saying here is crazy.

I don't know if you missed it, but Golden State's small ball line-up, you know the one they won the championship with, had Bogut on the bench.

Maybe you did miss it.

What I'm referring to as small ball here is not when you play a center-less line-up but more of the ability to play with a tweener/stretch 4, which provides better spacing on offense for the guards/swingman to operate.

My guess here is that 1-4 will be composed of average at best defenders but good offensive players. That should in return maximize Hibbert's value on defense.

[john248]

Hibbert is actually a good center to play small ball with because of his ability to anchor the defense, he's pretty much like Bogut in some ways. I see you guys playing small ball with Russ&Kobe breaking down the defense and getting good looks for the other guys, then there's Randle who can attack the paint.

I don't have anything really against Hibbert. I've already typed out his problems in this thread. But what you're saying here is crazy.

I don't know if you missed it, but Golden State's small ball line-up, you know the one they won the championship with, had Bogut on the bench.

Maybe you did miss it.

We shouldn't take away Bogut's contributions for the whole year and most of the playoffs wherein he was key in beating the stronger conference by going against bigs like Mark Gasol and Dwight Howard. Unless you are saying that Golden State could have gone through the whole season without Bogut? My opinion is that GSW played small ball even with Bogut on the floor. So in that sense, it isn't really so crazy.

Well, this would be putting words in my mouth since I didn't say Bogut was unimportant. GSW's small ball line up features Draymond at center and had been during the reguar season. It happened, a lot.

"We don’t necessarily want to, but we feel like we’re really good at it. And Draymond allows us to do that, along with Andre and Harrison. But Draymond’s sort of the key guy because he can play the 5. Looked at some numbers today, when Draymond is at the 5, our defensive rating is just off the charts, like 87.5 per 100 possessions. To give you some context, we’re No. 1 in the league overall, we’re at I think a defensive rating of 98 points allowed per 100 possessions.

When Draymond’s at the 5, that number is 87.5. It’s crazy. Small ball is the way everyone’s going and it’s good for us; we’re good at it." -Kerr quoted in the San Jose Mercury News

So this is straight from the horses mouth.

[dipstick]

I don't have anything really against Hibbert. I've already typed out his problems in this thread. But what you're saying here is crazy.

I don't know if you missed it, but Golden State's small ball line-up, you know the one they won the championship with, had Bogut on the bench.

Maybe you did miss it.

We shouldn't take away Bogut's contributions for the whole year and most of the playoffs wherein he was key in beating the stronger conference by going against bigs like Mark Gasol and Dwight Howard. Unless you are saying that Golden State could have gone through the whole season without Bogut? My opinion is that GSW played small ball even with Bogut on the floor. So in that sense, it isn't really so crazy.

Well, this would be putting words in my mouth since I didn't say Bogut was unimportant. GSW's small ball line up features Draymond at center and had been during the reguar season. It happened, a lot.

"We don’t necessarily want to, but we feel like we’re really good at it. And Draymond allows us to do that, along with Andre and Harrison. But Draymond’s sort of the key guy because he can play the 5. Looked at some numbers today, when Draymond is at the 5, our defensive rating is just off the charts, like 87.5 per 100 possessions. To give you some context, we’re No. 1 in the league overall, we’re at I think a defensive rating of 98 points allowed per 100 possessions.

When Draymond’s at the 5, that number is 87.5. It’s crazy. Small ball is the way everyone’s going and it’s good for us; we’re good at it." -Kerr quoted in the San Jose Mercury News

So this is straight from the horses mouth.

No I did not mean to put words in your mouth and thank you for putting me straight as I did not watch too much GSW basketball last year.

Also, that 87.5 per 100 possessions is crazy. I need some context to make sense of it, because if thats the average when Draymond is playing, the the number when Bogut is at 5 should be way over 100. That would make me question how valuable (or not) Bogut actually might be.

[kblo247]

Bogut's value is that of Luc Longley to the second Bulls 3 peat. He starts the game, beats guys up, doesn't get in the way, and keeps their most valued defender out of foul toruble. It was Rodman for Chicago who was undersized yet finished games at the 5 next to Kukoc at the 4 , and it is Draymond and Harrison in GSW

[john248]

Hibbert is actually a good center to play small ball with because of his ability to anchor the defense, he's pretty much like Bogut in some ways. I see you guys playing small ball with Russ&Kobe breaking down the defense and getting good looks for the other guys, then there's Randle who can attack the paint.

I don't have anything really against Hibbert. I've already typed out his problems in this thread. But what you're saying here is crazy.

I don't know if you missed it, but Golden State's small ball line-up, you know the one they won the championship with, had Bogut on the bench.

Maybe you did miss it.

What I'm referring to as small ball here is not when you play a center-less line-up but more of the ability to play with a tweener/stretch 4, which provides better spacing on offense for the guards/swingman to operate.

My guess here is that 1-4 will be composed of average at best defenders but good offensive players. That should in return maximize Hibbert's value on defense.

I know what you're saying, but we were just arguing different things.

GSW has all season referred to their small ball line-up as one that featured Draymond Green at center.

Green was the one who made it all work. Golden State's top 6 minutes played line-ups featured Green, a legit PF. The line-up with Bogut at center and Barnes at PF spent only 39 minutes all season which is hardly a relevant sample size. It wasn't one that Kerr thought to go to often. Could they do well in 800 minutes? Probably. But I have faith in any line-up with Curry, Thompson, and Iguodala would fair well. What you're bringing up here is a hypothetical where the offensive players are actually good and that Hibbert can guard the PnR as well as Bogut did, a top 3 defender last year.

They'll probably need better than average defenders. The Pacers had both Paul George and Lance Stephenson who did that. Larry Bird wasn't crazy about going small with Hibbert either. The Pacers weren't beating teams down the court with Hibbert and setting up their offense to get shots off before the opponent can set up. Small ball things.

Small ball isn't just parking some stretch 4 at the 3 point line anymore. Guys like Novak, Ryan Anderson, and Frye aren't even as valuable as they were just 3 years ago. Ryan Kelly was drafted by the Lakers, and he's already obsolete. Some type of passing and even just 2 or 3-dribble types are needed at the 4. It's why Randle is being asked to develop his shooting, lost weight, improve his ball handling, and a meh passer but just don't throw it away. And this was a guy who used to be 6'9" and 250 lbs.

[john248]

We shouldn't take away Bogut's contributions for the whole year and most of the playoffs wherein he was key in beating the stronger conference by going against bigs like Mark Gasol and Dwight Howard. Unless you are saying that Golden State could have gone through the whole season without Bogut? My opinion is that GSW played small ball even with Bogut on the floor. So in that sense, it isn't really so crazy.

Well, this would be putting words in my mouth since I didn't say Bogut was unimportant. GSW's small ball line up features Draymond at center and had been during the reguar season. It happened, a lot.

"We don’t necessarily want to, but we feel like we’re really good at it. And Draymond allows us to do that, along with Andre and Harrison. But Draymond’s sort of the key guy because he can play the 5. Looked at some numbers today, when Draymond is at the 5, our defensive rating is just off the charts, like 87.5 per 100 possessions. To give you some context, we’re No. 1 in the league overall, we’re at I think a defensive rating of 98 points allowed per 100 possessions.

When Draymond’s at the 5, that number is 87.5. It’s crazy. Small ball is the way everyone’s going and it’s good for us; we’re good at it." -Kerr quoted in the San Jose Mercury News

So this is straight from the horses mouth.

No I did not mean to put words in your mouth and thank you for putting me straight as I did not watch too much GSW basketball last year.

Also, that 87.5 per 100 possessions is crazy. I need some context to make sense of it, because if thats the average when Draymond is playing, the the number when Bogut is at 5 should be way over 100. That would make me question how valuable (or not) Bogut actually might be.

Bogut is very much a valuable player as you already know. I did not mean to make an impression that he's entirely useless. You're absolutely correct that he was very important in the regular season as well as some match-ups in the playoffs. We're talking about a top 3 defender last season. That's an incredible player to have.

The entire point of going small is to create an offensive advantage where playing Bogut or Hibbert obviously don't offer that. We can talk about how both have a solid jumper, and that Bogut is a good passer, but they have short comings as offensive players where playing small next to them don't give huge results. The problem with Bogut became that he was entirely too passive on offense. It actually was to the point that you could stick a smaller player on him for short periods of time. This was basically how Bogut was played off the floor and a main reason why Hibbert and other bigs like him don't see as much action. So in the Finals, we saw GSW adjust and just go full on with a small ball line-up, and they played Mosgov off the floor. Obviously this is situational. But GSW did this during the regular season. When Blake missed a game during the regular season, GSW went small again with Green at center and pretty much ran the Clippers, and this is with Jordan at center.

I just don't think it's a good idea to just throw out and say, well GSW did it, so why not us. They have quite a special roster. But even Kerr knew that sitting Bogut was ok because they had that special player in Draymond Green to anchor the defense which is proven in the stats and results.

Defenses have gotten better, and league average ORTG has gone down in each of the last several years. Defenses are adjusting just as much as offense has. It's like I was telling that sixers guy above, it's not really about just parking a stretch 4 either. Those guys get played off the floor too since the opposing team will hide their worse defender on that player, even a point guard. The defensive bigs like Asik and Koufos aren't that valuable beyond a back-up role. It's why I liked Lopez, because he can take advantage of the little guy with a baby hook. It's crazy how fast everything is evolving, and it's really fun to watch.

But yea, Hibbert isn't there really for the small ball. I mean...it's the small ball teams that play him off the floor. If Randle is the player we all hope he is, that'll be a good fit next to him assuming Hibbert is even still here beyond the 1 year. They'll at least be able to protect each other a couple years from now (Randle's hopefully development).

[Lakernut4ever]

Roy Hibbert seriously needs to sit down and talk with Kobe on how to get his killer instincts back. Hibbert's mental problems fade away as long as he focuses on doing everything to win. It's not as if he didn't do it before(playing like an all star)

[crazyeights]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TJFsports/status/617951963737501696[/tweet]

Interesting stuff here.

If we manage our rotations/minutes correctly, Roy can be a great rim protector for us.

[Lakers415]

I love this deal.

Hibbert can defend on rebounding and defense because offense won't be a problem when you have kobe, randle, and russell next season. Get hibbert on a diet and change his crap routine that made both hibbert and lance suck last season.

[JohnVancouver]

Larry Sanders would be amazing. if we could bring him in, as the long term frontcourt partner for Randle, and get him committed to the game, we will have such a good core

I thought he would've been a better use of money....16mill for a 7 2 soft ass turd like hibbert is a joke....dude barely avg more rebs than some sg's

But the money doesn't really matter, does it? (I mean, not like we're having to pay if our of our allowance ...)

We have to have a starting center, Hibbert is a quality big on an expiring deal. If we can get his self-confidence back, he's an excellent signing.

[JohnVancouver]

Every time I start to say Greyhound Therapy doesn't work, I remind myself of Z-Bo, and shut up. Hope the same works for Hibbert. If one of Sanders or Upshaw can come along as a decent backup, we actually have done very well and aren't locked into anything long term. For that matter, I'd be happy to bring in DLee as our small-ball center, as he was on the Knicks when he played so well.
He and Hibbs would turn into 31 mil in cap after the season. If the Warrior would take Swaggy in a dealf or Lee, I would be very happy.

Whether or not Greyhound Therapy works depends on the destination. I don't think a large market, with a long tradition of dominant centers and a hyper demanding franchise player is the best destination for a guy like Hibbert. I would love to be proven wrong though. Not only because it will be beneficial to my team but also because Hibbert seems like a nice dude.

You make a good point - definitely a pressurized situation for him. But if Kobe gives him the pep talk, support, I could see him regaining his mojo. Yeah, he does seem like a good skin. Hope this works out