Official Jason Kidd Thread

[Lakers05]

Well actually, KG's PER has gone up(his EFF has gone down however, the higher PER can then be explained by playing less minutes, which means he has more energy to produce the higher PER in those minutes.) My observation on these guys the past few years is that when you put a bunch of talented players together, the only guy that is able to somewhat maintain his stats is the 1st option. Why is this?

Well, imagine when the pressure is on or if you want to stay ahead, who do you go to? Your first option. If you're a former 1st option on a weak team and a 1st option even on a team with talented teammates, you'll still get the same number of touches. Now if you're a 2nd option who used to be a 1st option, then your former team will go to you by default. But if you're teamed up with a guy who's even a better option than you are, many of those touches get taken away. This would explain why Odom's average without Kobe is higher than with him(of course, if he was your main option, your team would also end up playing from behind and lose much of the time). It would also mean that one can't assume that Kidd's assists would go up playing with Bynum and Kobe, even if Bynum is a great finisher, because he would have to split the ball-handling ability with Kobe. Bynum would also take away some of those touches in the post.

In other words, while Bynum's finishing ability will give Kidd a higher chance of making an assist, he would have fewer opportunities to make those assists. In the end, I'd say his assists'll probably remain the same. His rebounds, however, would most likely take a dip. His shooting percentages should go up. In the end, his EFF would most likely stay the same, and to me, that's all that counts.

[LLcoleJ]

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If we are talking about who's better based on their current stats, you'll get no argument from me. I've also conceded that most likely, Farmar wouldn't be able to put up stats such that he'll be as good as Kidd, if both were on THIS team.

However, if Farmar were on the Nets, and whether Farmar could put up stats such that he'll be as good as Kidd, then that's a very debatable point.

only debatable because you think so, the rest of the world world would argue against.

[LLcoleJ]

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Not personal attacks, but careful about words which may seem like bragging or condescending. As far as Sun Yue, not directly, but I do remember a comment by me that says that Yue would be better than Luke, and you claimed it as being outrageous.

Well I dont know what you have to brag about.. or even how bragging is relevent here. But until Sun Yue steps his first foot on the NBA floor we can that start comparing him to Luke or other NBA players.

[numbas]

kidd is better right now and this season he might even be better than farmers best year i mean hes close to averaging a triple double not that he'll do it but hes close and also plays better d not that farmar is bad

but if u had to do a trade without a doubt u have to get kidd,i mean kobe bynum,kidd and odom is a for sure title a a couple even if kidd retires in 4 years or sumthing its worth a couple titles and another dynasty POSSIBLE with bynum still developing with every second

[djericho]

but if u had to do a trade without a doubt u have to get kidd,i mean kobe bynum,kidd and odom is a for sure title a a couple even if kidd retires in 4 years or sumthing its worth a couple titles and another dynasty POSSIBLE with bynum still developing with every second

whoa... slow your roll, remember the same was said about trading Bynum for Kidd (I was one of em that wanted to trade Bynum for Kidd back in the day, I think Kobe was too... )

Farmar is important to this team as he is the floor general of the 2nd Team. we do the trade as long as we don't gut the team to stay competative.

IMO i'd rather wait for FA, let Kwame walk and try to get Artest.

[Gerald3Wallace]

farmar will be no where near kidd

[LLcoleJ]

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whoa... slow your roll, remember the same was said about trading Bynum for Kidd (I was one of em that wanted to trade Bynum for Kidd back in the day, I think Kobe was too... )

Farmar is important to this team as he is the floor general of the 2nd Team. we do the trade as long as we don't gut the team to stay competative.

IMO i'd rather wait for FA, let Kwame walk and try to get Artest.

MLE?

[J~Rush]

lol @ this thread

[Erik Eleven]

Kidd brings so much more to the floor than his stats.

The only stat that matters is the W-L column. With Kidd on this team next to Kobe and Bynum, our W-L record would be sick. Even if we played Slava and a Slava clone at the forward spots.

Kidd is one of the greatest point guards of all time. To compare Farmar's current stats to Kidd's is quite ignorant. Just like KG, his impact would mean so much more than the points and boards he racks up.

[islander009]

Kidd is a great pg, farmar is a surprising pg this year. No doubt that farmar has stepped up this year, but there is no comparison. Kidd brings his game every night, if hes not scoring hes getting the rebounds, assists, steals, etc. Farmar has not stepped up like that. Kobe wanted an Allstar and he got a rising Bynum, yet he still has not rescinded his trade request. Kidd played with Kobe and the both have the great passion for the game, to have them both on the team, may be that push we need to keep Kobe in LA for sure. Kidd brings the numbers LO does not and does it all across the board.

[J Rob]

Kidd brings so much more to the floor than his stats.

The only stat that matters is the W-L column. With Kidd on this team next to Kobe and Bynum, our W-L record would be sick. Even if we played Slava and a Slava clone at the forward spots.

Kidd is one of the greatest point guards of all time. To compare Farmar's current stats to Kidd's is quite ignorant. Just like KG, his impact would mean so much more than the points and boards he racks up.

But couldn't one easily say that even tho Bynum is not as good as KG, nor will be for a couple more years, that we are all happy we kept Bynum instead of trading him for KG?

The same argument could apply to a Farmar for Kidd trade.

Look, I'm all for trading for Kidd, but I think Farmar was a gift that we should hold onto.

If Odom and Kwame go, fine.

If we have to throw a draft pick or two in the mix, fine.

But I really believe we should keep Jordan at all costs.

[milesfides]

You know, thinking about it, we're probably the frontrunners.

Not too many teams can give up both a quality point guard and cap relief.

I think Farmar is good enough for NJ to consider him in a NJ trade. I also think that he isn't good enough for LA to protect him like they protected Bynum.

Oh man, I can almost see this happening. Farmar, Kwame, Radman for Kidd.

Test Phoenix if they're willing to swap Marion for Odom; if so, we'll have an all-star lineup.

Kidd, Kobe, Marion, Bynum, (plus Turiaf)

Fisher will replace Farmar's role as our sixth man, bolstered by feisty Sasha, hustling Ariza, playmaking Walton, and active Mbenga.

For all of Farmar's promise, there's one thing that Kidd does infinitely better: making his teammates better. Kidd is a terrific catalyst. In our stagnant, one-on-one offense (not even talking about Kobe), Kidd would be the perfect solution.

[Erik Eleven]

Oh man, I can almost see this happening. Farmar, Kwame, Radman for Kidd.

Test Phoenix if they're willing to swap Marion for Odom; if so, we'll have an all-star lineup.

Kidd, Kobe, Marion, Bynum, (plus Turiaf)

Where do I sign?

[Erik Eleven]

^ Do it, Mitch!!!

Come on, make it happen.

[BallAboveAll]

I'll take Kidd. Despite his age his athleticism has never gotten him by. It's his great court vision and overall ability. Though Famar is good Kidd is a certified HOF who can still get it done. Kidd and Kobe with Bynum would be great. Say would we get to keep Odom? I think Kidd would do wonders for Lamar.

The Lakers and Mavericks are the front runners I believe.

[TruSkool]

no wonder other teams fans hate on us so much...us laker fans make such absurd comments/threads about comparing farmar to kidd...
come on guys...we're hated on realgm as it is...dont make it worst for the rest of us...
make legit posts...not these phony type...

a kobe vs jordan thread is far more appealing than farmar vs kidd...and although im a laker fan...id have to pick jordan..and KIDD!

[incontrol__]

^ Do it, Mitch!!!

Come on, make it happen.

Meanwhile, the Nets' trade offers remain unappealing, and they are likely to dry up a bit because the Lakers aren't interested in making any major changes, according to people familiar with Mitch Kupchak's thinking.

Click

..Doesn't sound so promising.

come on guys...we're hated on realgm as it is...dont make it worst for the rest of us...

Alot of the hate Laker fans get has to do with others teams' fans' inferiority complexes.

[LakerFanSince84]

I wanted Kidd so bad last year I got so depressed when they didnt' get him. I thought they had him and all the free agents would have followed.
Now they have the chance but it would probably cost us Farmar who has become my 3rd favorite Laker and 4th overall.
Who would you guys rather have Kidd or Farmar? I know Kidd is way better now but in 2-3 years that won't be the case. Your choice if you were the gm and it could be a straight up trade?

Who cares about 2-3 years from now, Kobe may begin to decline by then and that will still be your major piece for scoring. Farmar will never replace Kobe's ability to score. Kidd is the best set-up man today, better than nash(nash has far more talent). I Would not trade J-Critt!

[LakerFanSince84]

Bottom-line it comes down to Bynum and Kobe; which player could elevate their game even higher, Farmar or Kidd? No-Brainer, I'd take Kidd, because J-Critt has the ability as a pure passer to pickup where Kidd will stop as a Laker. Unfortunately, Phil Jackson doesn't have a clue on how to maximize the best laker rotation....Critt should be playing more with the starters.

Farmar
Critt
Kobe
Odom
Bynum

Critt
Kobe
Ariza
Odom
Bynum

Critt
Kobe
Odom
Turiaf
Bynum
When have you ever seen phil utilize any of those lineups?

[Lakers05]

Kidd's impact isn't any higher than what his stats show. You can say that he tends to play better, i.e raise his stats above his average, when the team needs him more(like the situation we're in right now), but that still means that you're measuring his impact by his stats.

People talk about Fish's intangibles and all that, well, seems like he's simply playing on a higher statistical level than before to me. To me, intangibles are overrated, unless you can show that they have an effect on a tangible level, if that makes any sense.

To me, heart is simply the will to retain your stats in tough situations. Clutch is the tendency to get your stats in tough situations than easy, but in the end, you still can't say that this guy is contributing beyond his stats, because most likely, what happens is that the clutch player is able to maintain higher stats than the weak-minded player, when the going gets tough, which gives the appearance that he has more "intangibles" than the weak-minded player, but in the end, the reason he's contributing more can be explained on a statistical level.