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Mirjalovic wrote:Is it realistic to absorb Lin contract for first round pick, sign Melo max, and resign Pau, atleast at MLE ?
Pointgod wrote:Mirjalovic wrote:Is it realistic to absorb Lin contract for first round pick, sign Melo max, and resign Pau, atleast at MLE ?
No. What I'd realistic is signing Melo to the max, stretching Nash and absorbing Lin with a pick along the way. No way we can sign Pau unless he's down for the two year exemption. Also I doubt Melo would be delighted at the prospect of playing with Lin again.
Pointgod wrote:I've cooled on the idea of Bledsoe. The guy has had 2 knee surgeries and apparently its the same one Dwyane Wade had. Let Bledsoe at max become Phoenix's problem. Monroe, Stephenson, Thomas would be my targets. Get one of them and then pull a Danny Ainge and take on salary for picks.
, no love lost there. Seeing the most recent wire-tap bout Chi wanting to do Boozer S&T for Pau, gdam Chi you guys must think Mitch is a moron. Would've taken them those 2 1st to begin with just to dump Boozer alone and I'm booking they offer us some garbage like Snells or Sac heavily protected 1st or Clev heavily protected 1st. If chi really wants Pau, they best amnesty boozer cause they don't have the assets to entice us to absorbing Boozer contract that's for sure.LApwnd wrote:Pointgod wrote:I've cooled on the idea of Bledsoe. The guy has had 2 knee surgeries and apparently its the same one Dwyane Wade had. Let Bledsoe at max become Phoenix's problem. Monroe, Stephenson, Thomas would be my targets. Get one of them and then pull a Danny Ainge and take on salary for picks.
it is not the same, Wade knee's are pretty much shot. Bledsoe were merely tweaks and they didn't remove any parts of his internal knee parts like Wade (from what I hear its bone on bone like Kobe has been but obviously wade plays more physical). Besides if they do match we might as well be the A-holes to force them to do that
lelelazza8 wrote:The best thing that LAL can do is try to get asset via S&T Gasol, and maybe J.Hill...
Trade Gasol and Marshall to CHI for Boozer, best 2015 1st round pick (Sacto or bulls pick) and future 2nd...
Trade Hill and CHI 2nd round pick to OKC for Perkins and 2015 OKC 1st...
After that, trade Randle, Boozer, CHI, OKC 2015 1st round pick and LAL future 1st to MIN for Love...
Perkins/Okafor/Sacre
Love/Mar.Williams (with mini MLE)/Kelly
Young (sign with part of MLE)/Henry/Mar.Williams
Bryant/B.Rush/Clarkson
Nash/Session or Bayless (with rest of MLE)/Clarkson
Pointgod wrote:LApwnd wrote:Pointgod wrote:I've cooled on the idea of Bledsoe. The guy has had 2 knee surgeries and apparently its the same one Dwyane Wade had. Let Bledsoe at max become Phoenix's problem. Monroe, Stephenson, Thomas would be my targets. Get one of them and then pull a Danny Ainge and take on salary for picks.
it is not the same, Wade knee's are pretty much shot. Bledsoe were merely tweaks and they didn't remove any parts of his internal knee parts like Wade (from what I hear its bone on bone like Kobe has been but obviously wade plays more physical). Besides if they do match we might as well be the A-holes to force them to do that
I'm still not taking a chance on Bledsoe especially when there are better options like Monroe and Stephenson. It looks like Melo was smart to avoid Chicago their front office is a joke. They should just amnesty booze but they're too cheap to do it now they think the Lakers will do then favours. I'll make that trade but I'd squeeze them for 2 firsts and a second or else good luck. I'd use the second to move Nash and sign Stephenson and Isaiah Thomas
AcecardZ wrote:lelelazza8 wrote:The best thing that LAL can do is try to get asset via S&T Gasol, and maybe J.Hill...
Trade Gasol and Marshall to CHI for Boozer, best 2015 1st round pick (Sacto or bulls pick) and future 2nd...
Trade Hill and CHI 2nd round pick to OKC for Perkins and 2015 OKC 1st...
After that, trade Randle, Boozer, CHI, OKC 2015 1st round pick and LAL future 1st to MIN for Love...
Perkins/Okafor/Sacre
Love/Mar.Williams (with mini MLE)/Kelly
Young (sign with part of MLE)/Henry/Mar.Williams
Bryant/B.Rush/Clarkson
Nash/Session or Bayless (with rest of MLE)/Clarkson
I'm really happy you're not running the Lakers.
Perkins is absolutely awful! Randle for Love? And look at that poo poo platter of PG's you're suggesting. What identity are you trying to have this team take on?
LApwnd wrote:Pointgod wrote:LApwnd wrote:
it is not the same, Wade knee's are pretty much shot. Bledsoe were merely tweaks and they didn't remove any parts of his internal knee parts like Wade (from what I hear its bone on bone like Kobe has been but obviously wade plays more physical). Besides if they do match we might as well be the A-holes to force them to do that
I'm still not taking a chance on Bledsoe especially when there are better options like Monroe and Stephenson. It looks like Melo was smart to avoid Chicago their front office is a joke. They should just amnesty booze but they're too cheap to do it now they think the Lakers will do then favours. I'll make that trade but I'd squeeze them for 2 firsts and a second or else good luck. I'd use the second to move Nash and sign Stephenson and Isaiah Thomas
I see your point but all I'm saying is if there were no risk invovled Bledsoe would easily get matched same way as I forsee Monroe getting matched. Det can just worry about trading him later since he doesn't have any red flag health wise yet ala Bledose. Pho seems to have already been planning for this with the drafting of Ennis and they alrady had a promising Guard in Goodwin waiting for his chance.
milesfides wrote:Really, pseudo-point guard, average player? Why, because that's what he actually is or that's what McHale made him in Houston? Because when he was the actual point guard of a team, as a Knick in 2011-2012, he still averaged out to a 20 PER, just below of elite PG's. And that number is including his decreased production when Melo came back. So saying Lin is a pseduo-point guard is fine, as long as you dismiss Kyrie Irving and Steph Curry as pseudo-point guards, because they posted about the same PER that year.
And to be honest, saying Lin is best as a sixth man, then saying he's not very good, is ass-backwards thinking. His best statistical year, was with the Knicks (all-star level), then as a starter with Houston, but as a floor spacer next to Harden (14.9 PER, which is considered average), then his worst year was last year's when demoted as a sixth man in favor of defensive Beverly next to Harden (still 14.3 PER). This is all backed up by the fact that Lin's usage plummeted from 28 with the Knicks down to 20 with Houston.
So to say, Lin is best as a sixth man, that's like saying Jodie Meeks is best as a point guard. You're saying Jeremy Lin is the best at what he is the worst at statistically, in the worst basketball situation for him, when he's out of position with two ball-demanding players? That is just illogical. The truth of this is painfully obvious when you look at the reverse: in the six games without Harden, when Lin was allowed to run the team, i.e., actually play point guard, he posted 20 points and 6 assists a game. So he's best as a sixth man and floor spacer? Huh?
To put the nail in the coffin, in the first couple weeks of this season (even with Harden) Jeremy Lin started - and posted a PER of 19. Anybody see a pattern here? Of course McHale benched Lin after that.
Call me crazy, but if he were traded to the Lakers, what do you think Lin's production will be? Especially since the Lakers would actually need another creator and ballhandler. That was the whole idea behind acquiring Nash, to extend Kobe's career by not running him into the ground trying to break down defenses (oops, achilles) and allow Kobe to transition into more of a team player instead of hitting the panic-button hero ball because our point guards just can't do anything. Who else on our team is going to break defenses down? 36-year-old Kobe? Who else is going to will us to victory and hit big shots? Kendall Marshall?
And what's with the tunnel vision with PER? Lin didn't "become average" with Houston. The moment he got to Houston he went through radical changes in his role (all bad), and they hurt his PER because these changes killed his usage and assist rates - but isn't that obvious?
-Yet even at that horrible situation, Lin has worked on his game and managed to up his field goal percentage all around, 2-pointers, 3-pointers, and free-throws, and decreased his turnover rate.
-He attacks and finishes at the rim among the league's best (matching Tony Parker's finishing rate), better than guys like Russell Westbrook.
-His true shooting numbers are higher than Damien Lillard and Kyrie Irving's.
-Became one of the better catch-and-shooters in the NBA, efg% better than Klay Thompson and JJ Reddick.
Put all that together - yeah his PER got worse because he's not playing point guard, he's being forced to be more of a floor spreader, he's coming off the bench, etc. But I'd argue this: he's even a better player than he was during Linsanity, because he worked on his game.
Hey look, I'm fine with people looking at Lin as just a means to get Asik and perhaps another asset from Houston in what is essentially a gap year for us. Just because you don't like him, the way he looks, whatever. But don't make that statistical argument, because it doesn't hold water.
Dismissing Lin's 38 points on the Lakers by saying it was on Fisher? That's just selective and prejudiced. Fish only played 24 min that night, Blake was there too. But why not dismiss Kobe's 81 with that logic by saying it was on broken down Jalen Rose who retired a year later? How about the fact that Lin was the best player on the floor on that night, and that included Kobe Bryant? Do we really have to go down this road to point out your selective bias?
How about 25, 7, and 5 on Deron Williams?
How about 23 and 10 on John Wall?
How about 20 and 8 on Ricky Rubio, icing game winning free throws?
How about 27 and 11 in a shootout with Calderon, with the game-winning three w/ 5 sec left?
How about 19 and 13 on Kyrie Irving?
How about 28 and 8 on Devin Harris and Earl Watson?
How about 28 and 14 on Kidd and Terry and the defending champs?
All victories, by the way. And most of those teams were gunning for them in a playoff-like intensity.
How about the first player in NBA history to score 20 and 7 in each of his five first starts? How about the fifth player in the last 15 years to score 28, 14 and 5 steals in a game?
On and on. I don't want to be up at night going through stats. But when people dismiss what Jeremy Lin did and does as a point guard - I have to call b.s.
And even beyond stats, making guys like Novak, Fields, and Chandler legit offensive threats? How about their stats? They don't matter? How about the basic definition of a good point guard, making your teammates better, winning games that you're not supposed to win, and being fearless with big plays and gamewinners? How about that? That doesn't matter? That doesn't calculate into what makes a player?
I don't "love" Jeremy Lin. I'm just a guy who loves basketball on the internet. I love Anthony Davis, I'd take him over anybody if I were to start a team today. I love Andrei Kirilenko, I think he's the third best defender of the last decade. I love Russell Westbrook, I would take him over Durant.
But don't tell me Jeremy Lin is an average player or a sixth man or a pseudo-point guard because of the crap that's going on in Houston. I have to try to sort that out, sorry. And maybe I did a poor job. Maybe I sound like a Jeremy Lin "lover." Maybe I didn't put up information up there. But at the end of the day, it's always the eye test for me. And I'm just a fan, what do I know? So-
I'll simply leave it to Kobe. Game knows game.
"The biggest thing to me is how everybody missed it. They all would be fired if I was owning a team. I hear this stuff, 'It came out of nowhere.' I think it's a load of [garbage]. You can't play that well and just come out of nowhere. There has to be something there and everybody missed it. So heads would roll [if I was owner]."
-Kobe Bryant on Jeremy Lin
No, I don't love Jeremy Lin. I just didn't miss it.
milesfides wrote:Since Houston has reportedly been trying to get Lin and Asik off the books to make a run at Carmelo (or just get them off the books since they haven't fit in with Harden and DHo), the Lakers should park their contracts, use them as assets or keep them.
It works on all levels. Since there's a good chance Gasol won't be back with the team. Lakers need a defensive big man to go along with a defensive coach. Asik, check. Farmar hasn't been able to stay healthy, Nash is done, and Kendall has been great at putting up assists in losses. Backcourt player who can facilitate, make shots, drive, and play hard and fearless? Lin, check.
They expire after next season anyway, so we're still good for summer 2015 FA market and beyond. But what if Asik plays like we know he can (not next to Dwight nor coming off the bench), Kobe's healthy and killing it in the post and midrange, and Lin is bringing some of that Linsanity back (and not just a floor spreader for Harden)... We've got a good chance that we actually have something on our hands. Always a possibility. And if we re-sign them for less than their current $16m /yr combined, we still have 23m+ to throw at a max player and fill out the rest of our roster in 2015. And when Kobe retires or takes a paycut in 2016, we can add yet another max player.
Competitive now, flexible, assets for trade, capspace for free agency.
Bottom line is that the balloon payment distorts their actual yearly value (~$8m) and the way they've been used in Houston (to be fair to Morey, he didn't know he'd be able to get Harden and Howard) depresses their market value. In short, I think they're undervalued assets, we can afford them right now and reap the benefits afterwards. Low risk, high reward.
LApwnd wrote:Pointgod wrote:Mirjalovic wrote:Is it realistic to absorb Lin contract for first round pick, sign Melo max, and resign Pau, atleast at MLE ?
No. What I'd realistic is signing Melo to the max, stretching Nash and absorbing Lin with a pick along the way. No way we can sign Pau unless he's down for the two year exemption. Also I doubt Melo would be delighted at the prospect of playing with Lin again.
Lin will be even more useless here then in Hou, his effectiveness went to hell once Melo returned during Linsanity and Kobe sure as hell isn't giving up touches to Lin either. He'll be designated as the corner spot up 3 shooting PG again and even 2x worse than Hou is. IF we did get Melo, we would need a PG would only do spot up shooting and D up and at a fraction of Lins cost.
Ell Curry wrote:Nash + 2 1st Rounders + Randle for Kevin Love certainly beats the Cleveland Wiggins-less offer.
Gasol-Love-Kobe-Shooter-Lin
Sacre-Kelly-Wing-Wing-Marshall
Good lord did Kobe screw you guys by demanding 24 instead of 16 or 18. You could do that deal and go into next summer with bird rights for Lin and Love and enough cap space to offer Marc Gasol or someone else the max before re-signing your own guys.
DrewBynum77 wrote:Ok people, what can we realistically (pushing a bit) get from Chicago if we S&T Gasol? Another question: we know Bulls owner is considered 'cheap' so what we can get if we also take on Boozer's contract on that S&T?
I'm talking about pics, future pics, future assets, etc. Thanks in advance!
Btw, I don't want anyone with long questionable or bad contracts. 2 years max. Maxing a guy like Bledsoe right now would kill it for me.
Let's suck for 1 or 2 more years... I don't really care.