The #2 Pick

[crazyeights]

Pretty sure Okafor could wow them in practices as well. His advanced post moves would look mighty good if or when he leaks his own video.

Yes. Its pretty easy to do all this against air. That's just eye-opening to see that stroke and that range on a guy who could be an All-NBA defender. That's a nice combo for me. I'd probably prefer that over a dominant low-post guy who might lag in other areas. But it's all a jerk-off at this point. Remember Darko...

Pretty sure Okafor could wow them in practices as well. His advanced post moves would look mighty good if or when he leaks his own video.

Don't downplay what you just witnessed, Slava.

I watched Jabari Parker and Dante Exum glide all over the floor and drain jumpers while dropping on a dime with that size last summer and they did none of that in actual NBA games against real NBA athletes.

The difference is Okafor used to put the ball on the floor all the time in NCAA, sometimes making catches 20 ft away from the rim only to maneuver all the way to a lay up in silky smooth way. KAT is showing vine clips but he's barely ever put the ball on the floor in game situations. He could probably do it in the NBA but I can't believe anything until I see actual NBA athletes out there defending them.

True, but 1) that's the nature of drafting. 2) if a team can't take a guy with KAT's natural abilities and put him in a situation to succeed, then they suck. That's where I believe we have the advantage, is an actual track record of development that leads to objective successes.

[Slava]

That's true, I'm merely commenting on the idea that one vine clip would tilt Flip Saunders' thoughts on Towns if he was set on Okafor. The game film is incredibly biased towards Okafor. FWIW I think both will turn out great, after that it is varying degrees of preference from one player to another that would decide who goes first.

[dockingsched]

Just a random thought about okafor after repeatedly seeing people say he has the best post game since Duncan. I tend to see some Hakeem when watching him. Moves are so smooth and he builds counters upon counters similar to The Dream.

[Sedale Threatt]

That's true, I'm merely commenting on the idea that one vine clip would tilt Flip Saunders' thoughts on Towns if he was set on Okafor. The game film is incredibly biased towards Okafor. FWIW I think both will turn out great, after that it is varying degrees of preference from one player to another that would decide who goes first.

I'm not basing that on one Vine, per se. I'm just saying that IF -- again, for emphasis, IF -- he can hit 3s at a dependable rate, and IF he lives up to expectations as a quality defensive player, I think that's a more valuable package than a dominant low-post player who might lag in other areas. The fact that Towns is an 80-percent free throw shooter would seem to be pretty indicative that he's got a pretty good stroke. We'll see.

[Slava]

That's true, I'm merely commenting on the idea that one vine clip would tilt Flip Saunders' thoughts on Towns if he was set on Okafor. The game film is incredibly biased towards Okafor. FWIW I think both will turn out great, after that it is varying degrees of preference from one player to another that would decide who goes first.

I'm not basing that on one Vine, per se. I'm just saying that IF -- again, for emphasis, IF -- he can hit 3s at a dependable rate, and IF he lives up to expectations as a quality defensive player, I think that's a more valuable package than a dominant low-post player who might lag in other areas. The fact that Towns is an 80-percent free throw shooter would seem to be pretty indicative that he's got a pretty good stroke. We'll see.

I'd say if Okafor is as efficient at NBA level as he was at Duke, I'd still take him over even if he realizes his own potential. Okafor shot like 66%+ and produced around 1.36 PPS per isolation possession and unlike DeAndre Jordan, Okafor is a high usage player whose makes are not assisted on a spoon. Towns will have to shoot like Dirk to match that or bring something elite defensively or may be a bit of both.

[Sedale Threatt]

That's true, I'm merely commenting on the idea that one vine clip would tilt Flip Saunders' thoughts on Towns if he was set on Okafor. The game film is incredibly biased towards Okafor. FWIW I think both will turn out great, after that it is varying degrees of preference from one player to another that would decide who goes first.

I'm not basing that on one Vine, per se. I'm just saying that IF -- again, for emphasis, IF -- he can hit 3s at a dependable rate, and IF he lives up to expectations as a quality defensive player, I think that's a more valuable package than a dominant low-post player who might lag in other areas. The fact that Towns is an 80-percent free throw shooter would seem to be pretty indicative that he's got a pretty good stroke. We'll see.

I'd say if Okafor is as efficient at NBA level as he was at Duke, I'd still take him over even if he realizes his own potential. Okafor shot like 66%+ and produced around 1.36 PPS per isolation possession and unlike DeAndre Jordan, Okafor is a high usage player whose makes are not assisted on a spoon. Towns will have to shoot like Dirk to match that or bring something elite defensively or may be a bit of both.

Well, yeah. This would be the second-coming of Wilt Chamberlain. I think it's fair to assume that won't be the case. But I guess as long as we're speculating, I'll give you that if you give me Kevin Durant crossed with Bill Russell for Towns.

[crazyeights]

That's true, I'm merely commenting on the idea that one vine clip would tilt Flip Saunders' thoughts on Towns if he was set on Okafor. The game film is incredibly biased towards Okafor. FWIW I think both will turn out great, after that it is varying degrees of preference from one player to another that would decide who goes first.

I'm not basing that on one Vine, per se. I'm just saying that IF -- again, for emphasis, IF -- he can hit 3s at a dependable rate, and IF he lives up to expectations as a quality defensive player, I think that's a more valuable package than a dominant low-post player who might lag in other areas. The fact that Towns is an 80-percent free throw shooter would seem to be pretty indicative that he's got a pretty good stroke. We'll see.

I'd say if Okafor is as efficient at NBA level as he was at Duke, I'd still take him over even if he realizes his own potential. Okafor shot like 66%+ and produced around 1.36 PPS per isolation possession and unlike DeAndre Jordan, Okafor is a high usage player whose makes are not assisted on a spoon. Towns will have to shoot like Dirk to match that or bring something elite defensively or may be a bit of both.

There's no way he'll shoot anywhere near that efficiently in the NBA.

His most common comparison, Jefferson, shot 50.9% last year.
Duncan's best was his rookie year at 54.9% (at 15.7 attempts per game).
Prime Pau Gasol 56.7%...(their athleticism reminds me a lot of each other)
Hakeem he shot 52.% on 19.5 attempts during his prime.
Kareem's best was 60.4%.

My gut when seeing Okafor in the season was that he's going to have trouble with NBA length.

He's bound to become less efficient, IMO.

Obviously he is so crafty and talented, I can see in his prime mid 50s as being reasonable, though, if things pan out for him. At 15-19 attempts a game.

To me either KAT or Okafor is going to be a great pick. Unfortunately the choice isn't truly ours to make, it's Minnesota's...but both guys create a drastically different future for both teams:

Wiggins/Okafor/LaVine (Rubio)
Wiggins/Towns/LaVine (Rubio)

Okafor/Randle/Clarkson
or
Towns/Randle/Clarkson

[Slava]

Jefferson is not a good comparison for Okafor. Jefferson is very predictable, makes his catches at the same spot over and over, once he gets the ball, he doesn't pass either for a re-post or for an open shooter, which further kills his efficiency and he's just a very limited player in terms of counters. Okafor on the other hand can initiate and run an offense from anywhere within 20ft and out, he's a lot like Pau than Al.

[crazyeights]

Jefferson is not a good comparison for Okafor. Jefferson is very predictable, makes his catches at the same spot over and over, once he gets the ball, he doesn't pass either for a re-post or for an open shooter, which further kills his efficiency and he's just a very limited player in terms of counters. Okafor on the other hand can initiate and run an offense from anywhere within 20ft and out, he's a lot like Pau than Al.

conveniently ignoring the part where nobody but Kap sniffed that 60% mark!

I included Al last just to illustrate what people normally compare him to, though I agree it's not a great fit, and I agree about he and Pau. Something about how they move their feet.

That said, Okafor can really improve on his fitness now that he's a pro. He should look to get better in certain areas, which is scary. But it's pretty safe to say 66% efficiency isn't a safe bet to expect. (Although, with post-play becoming so rare, there might even be not enough defenders for a guy like Okafor...but then I'm worried about his game against length)...damn, a tough decision for Flip.

[Slava]

Jefferson is not a good comparison for Okafor. Jefferson is very predictable, makes his catches at the same spot over and over, once he gets the ball, he doesn't pass either for a re-post or for an open shooter, which further kills his efficiency and he's just a very limited player in terms of counters. Okafor on the other hand can initiate and run an offense from anywhere within 20ft and out, he's a lot like Pau than Al.

conveniently ignoring the part where nobody but Kap sniffed that 60% mark!

I included Al last just to illustrate what people normally compare him to, though I agree it's not a great fit, and I agree about he and Pau. Something about how they move their feet.

That said, Okafor can really improve on his fitness now that he's a pro. He should look to get better in certain areas, which is scary. But it's pretty safe to say 66% efficiency isn't a safe bet to expect. (Although, with post-play becoming so rare, there might even be not enough defenders for a guy like Okafor...but then I'm worried about his game against length)...damn, a tough decision for Flip.

Oh yeah I don't think he'll maintain that FG%, that's nigh on impossible with the modern day scouting and defensive schemes but I do think his points per shot attempt and consequently offensive rating will hold up very well if not replicate his college stats. He's already looking noticeably thinner, so I guess his physical side will develop nicely.

[Kilroy]

Just a random thought about okafor after repeatedly seeing people say he has the best post game since Duncan. I tend to see some Hakeem when watching him. Moves are so smooth and he builds counters upon counters similar to The Dream.

Totally agree... I mentioned that before, but I just cringe a little when people make those kind of comparisons for draft prospects... Hakeem and Duncan are legendary... Don't want to put all that on Okafor. But I definitely see a LOT of Hakeem in his post game.

And in the modern NBA, I think Hakeem is about the model for the ideal C.

[crazyeights]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

[LApwnd]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

IF the story are true that Flip wants to play fast with his young talents than it would to be KAT. Wouldn't want a big to clog up the paint for wiggins, lavine, Rubio, etc.

[TRKO]

Just a random thought about okafor after repeatedly seeing people say he has the best post game since Duncan. I tend to see some Hakeem when watching him. Moves are so smooth and he builds counters upon counters similar to The Dream.

Totally agree... I mentioned that before, but I just cringe a little when people make those kind of comparisons for draft prospects... Hakeem and Duncan are legendary... Don't want to put all that on Okafor. But I definitely see a LOT of Hakeem in his post game.

And in the modern NBA, I think Hakeem is about the model for the ideal C.

Hakeem is the model C for any era. I was born in 1987, so I haven't seen everybody, he is the best C I've seen. Just outstanding player.

[Kilroy]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

KAT... He's the more versatile player and fits better with the pieces they have there.

That said, I think there's a strong possibility they take Okafor.

And after seeing Towns work out, I'm even more convinced there's too much overlap between he and Randle.

[TRKO]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

IF the story are true that Flip wants to play fast with his young talents than it would to be KAT. Wouldn't want a big to clog up the paint for wiggins, lavine, Rubio, etc.

It all depends on how good Flip thinks Okafor is. He said Okafor has the best footwork since Duncan. That level of footwork is a once in twenty year type stuff. So if Flip sees Okafor's offense is on the level of Ducan and if he feels like he can develop Okafor into a solid defender, I think he picks Okafor over Towns and figures out a fit later.

[LApwnd]

Let me ask you guys this:

If you're Flip Saunders. Who do you want to pair Wiggins with for the next 5-10 years?

IF the story are true that Flip wants to play fast with his young talents than it would to be KAT. Wouldn't want a big to clog up the paint for wiggins, lavine, Rubio, etc.

It all depends on how good Flip thinks Okafor is. He said Okafor has the best footwork since Duncan. That level of footwork is a once in twenty year type stuff. So if Flip sees Okafor's offense is on the level of Ducan and if he feels like he can develop Okafor into a solid defender, I think he picks Okafor over Towns and figures out a fit later.

that's why I want Minn to take KAT ........I use to be the other route but fact is we win with dominant C's good or bad defensively. Shaq, Howard, Bynum, Pau all were terrible PnR defender IMO. Only bigs I see having great success against it was Bosh, Noah....but both teams had great foot speed to switch once Bosh/Noah forced the guard further away from the play. We'll need to have good rotations to make up for Okafor if he really is that bad on defending the PnR. Having a dominant post presence isn't the nba standards anymore but I still want it, it makes the game easier for other players.

[john248]

Okafor has his issues too. Defensively, it'd be tough to project if he'll ever develop the instincts on that end to just be serviceable regardless if hes a bit laterally quicker after dropping weight; this is a huge knock since he is positionally a center. He also had some games where he struggled offensively against guys his size.

But hey, it's all about where he projects 5+ years from now. He'll likely do just fine against players his size as he gains more experience, and his passing ability is something that he already has. In the history of the league, there's only been a couple centers with truly masterful offensive skills: Shaq and Kareem. Duncan and 93+ Hakeem are in that clear next tier. Will Okafor's offense be as good as those guys? That's a tough question to ask. These guys were also 2 way players, also good to great on defense, where at least Shaq had massive presence in the paint. So do I think Okafor projects to be a transcendent player in this league who's talent alone is a building block to championships? No.

This doesn't mean I think we can't win with him as he's my 1st choice to draft. But what it does mean is it's going to be real expensive to build around him since a 2nd big who has some range and plays good defense, a rare player who will be expensive, will be needed too. Not sure if I project Randle to be that defensive player, but it's worth taking a chance at if only to unload Randle later on a year or 2 down the line for assets. I'm not concerned with Okafor's offense, so speaking his praises on that end is a pointless exercise. Just roll the dice and hope he isn't a liability on the defensive end because if he does continue to suck on that end, it pretty much takes away a lot of his offensive value. That crappy PnR defense is real; drove coach K nuts and has to go ultra conservative on that end. Duke made their comeback with Okafor on the bench during that title game. So anyways, all he has to do is just communicate, contest shots, and know where he has to be on the floor. That last part though...needs to happen.

[Pointgod]

No way Minnesota is going to pass him up. I just can't see it.

Pretty sure Okafor could wow them in practices as well. His advanced post moves would look mighty good if or when he leaks his own video.

Yes. Its pretty easy to do all this against air.

A draft prospect isn't legit until he's able to do this against a chair.

[TRKO]

Okafor has his issues too. Defensively, it'd be tough to project if he'll ever develop the instincts on that end to just be serviceable regardless if hes a bit laterally quicker after dropping weight; this is a huge knock since he is positionally a center. He also had some games where he struggled offensively against guys his size.

But hey, it's all about where he projects 5+ years from now. He'll likely do just fine against players his size as he gains more experience, and his passing ability is something that he already has. In the history of the league, there's only been a couple centers with truly masterful offensive skills: Shaq and Kareem. Duncan and 93+ Hakeem are in that clear next tier. Will Okafor's offense be as good as those guys? That's a tough question to ask. These guys were also 2 way players, also good to great on defense, where at least Shaq had massive presence in the paint. So do I think Okafor projects to be a transcendent player in this league who's talent alone is a building block to championships? No.

This doesn't mean I think we can't win with him as he's my 1st choice to draft. But what it does mean is it's going to be real expensive to build around him since a 2nd big who has some range and plays good defense, a rare player who will be expensive, will be needed too. Not sure if I project Randle to be that defensive player, but it's worth taking a chance at if only to unload Randle later on a year or 2 down the line for assets. I'm not concerned with Okafor's offense, so speaking his praises on that end is a pointless exercise. Just roll the dice and hope he isn't a liability on the defensive end because if he does continue to suck on that end, it pretty much takes away a lot of his offensive value. That crappy PnR defense is real; drove coach K nuts and has to go ultra conservative on that end. Duke made their comeback with Okafor on the bench during that title game. So anyways, all he has to do is just communicate, contest shots, and know where he has to be on the floor. That last part though...needs to happen.

I don't think Okafor is in the class of Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, or Olajuwon. The best comparison for him is Brad Daugherty, which is in the tier below those guys. Okafor has to improve his defense and if the scouts and coaches do not think he can, then you pass on him.