The LeBron Thread (merged)

Post #61 » by **Kilroy** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:11 pm

I also think LeBron is focusing on trying to get the young guys going and in the proper mindset for a playoff run right now... Kind of like, I'm going to take it easy and still get mine, it's up to you to step up if you want to win...

But it's frustrating as hell to watch.

iamworthy · Post #62 » by **iamworthy** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:57 pm

Welcome to the west LeBron.

Spanish_Laker · Post #63 » by **Spanish_Laker** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:05 pm

Averaging nearly a triple double on +50 FG% and we are blaming LeBron for this terrible start...What about the team's utterly poor coaching? weird rotations? non-existent perimeter defense? poor and dysfunctional roster planning? lack of shooters? lack of stoppers?

LeBron is the last and least important of our concerns.

iamworthy · Post #64 » by **iamworthy** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:23 pm

Just to be clear, I have no issue with LeBron at all. He's not the problem.

KobeBryant24 · Post #65 » by **KobeBryant24** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:49 pm

I thought he was going to be our closer. Just what we needed last yr but so far no luck in 5 close games. Its a repeat of what was going on last yr.

KobeBryant24 · Post #66 » by **KobeBryant24** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:50 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:Averaging nearly a triple double on +50 FG% and we are blaming LeBron for this terrible start...What about the team's utterly poor coaching? weird rotations? non-existent perimeter defense? poor and dysfunctional roster planning? lack of shooters? lack of stoppers?

LeBron is the last and least important of our concerns.

These rotations are beyond horrible. Hes gotta play our better players more. Im also tired of watching rondo assist hunting, its hurting the offense so much.

Sedale Threatt · Post #67 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:06 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:Averaging nearly a triple double on +50 FG% and we are blaming LeBron for this terrible start...What about the team's utterly poor coaching? weird rotations? non-existent perimeter defense? poor and dysfunctional roster planning? lack of shooters? lack of stoppers?

LeBron is the last and least important of our concerns.

Again, why not all of the above?

Post #68 » by **milesfides** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:00 am

Small sample size but eye test.

Lebron is playing too lazy on defense. These are close games that we’re losing. If he played harder on D, that would make the difference for games decided by 2-3 possessions. That’s not too much to ask for a 35m superstar.

But he also needs to stop deflecting and take responsibility as the leader of this team, the “best player in the world” and “king.” But we know from his former teammates what he's about. Takes all the glory, but any failures are placed on his teammates.

I hate that about him, there’s always been a little bit of a bitch in him.

Post #69 » by **Danny Darko** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:25 am

Isn't LeBron like 4 for 25 from 3? While having a bunch of turnovers and playing lazy defense? Is he getting in shape during the season or did we wear him out already?

I will say swaggy over beasly

stan francisco · Post #70 » by **stan francisco** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:34 am

LeBron is lazy on defense, indeed.

But, I would want to trade him had he been chasing point guards like a mad man in game three in his sixteenth season on a newly assembled team while the coach is trying out 500 different lineups. With more minutes per year of knee wear-down than pretty much anyone ever before him? I’d trade him for being detrimental to the team.

I’m all about defense but I don’t expect him to go all in on that end right now. Would rather have him healthy later in the year. The young ones have enough athletic ability and brains to cover for it. They’re learning how right now. Once the lineups steady, it’ll get better in a hurry. Plus, they all have to learn each other on both ends still. Rondo needs to teach pick and roll defense.

Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, LBJ, JMG

... is a pretty bad-ass defense on paper, even with LBJ idling. Should be, if they do it right—by committee. So, yeah it stinks when he’s the weakest link.

But I love how they’re not giving up anything cheap around the rim. They fight and contest. If they could only learn how to defend the perimeter and midrange with equal vigor.

But he’s barely idling right now on that end. I’m okay with it because he is actually a very good defender when he wants to be, which we’ll all see later in the season.

XXBKXX · Post #71 » by **XXBKXX** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:17 am

Wow..... just wow..

Yes Bron is older.. I for one knew that we weren't getting the 25 year old bron that's jumping over players. BUT, even at 33, Bron is impressing me with his play. The most impressive part is that he quietly kills the game. I'll think hes having a quiet game then check the stats and hes at 27 8 and 8 on +50% fg. He shares the ball well which fits with what Luke wants.

Now the biggest frustration with Bron, which has always been a knock on him, is his inability to close games. Maybe not inability, but more of a refusal to close games... Which is even more apparent for us since we have been spoiled by just watching Kobe close game after game in the final 3 mins. Kobe wanted the ball in that stretch and we wanted him to have it. Final 3 mins we would just ISO with Kobe on top of the key and he would consistently score.

Bron doesnt do that - he needs to.. we should iso and have him drive it every time in the final 3 mins. If hes still reluctant to do it, then I'd feel more comfortable giving the ball to BI to close games and let him drive and draw fouls. He did OK with that last season. Our late game offense sputters because it looks like all the players are expecting Bron to close ... then he passes it out... and catches players by surprise and they panic. Happened with Kuz against the wolves and Rondo was so shocked that he damn near pulled a JR Smith when Bron gave him the rock back..

Even with that said, we are a much better team with Bron. Id even argue that we have played better in these first 7 games than we have in any other 7 game stretch last two years.. It would be much different if Bron was volume chucking to inefficiently lead the team in scoring. Hes not doing that. Hes scoring within the offense and is getting everyone involved.

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Post #72 » by **Danny Darko** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:27 pm

so what you're saying is he needs a little mamba mentality?

Post #73 » by **Kilroy** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 6:11 pm

It was a matter of time:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/dan-woike-lebron-james-carries-lakers-to-victory-but-in-the-future-he-will-need-more-help/ar-BBPcCzo

I mean, it's obvious we need to be better, but I think it's pretty clear LeBron needs to be better too... This narrative is scary because it follows a fairly negative pattern of ultimate, failure for LeBron... Because I don't think there's been a single team he's been on, where after this narrative starts to show up, they get better over the long term... It's always the beginning of the end.

Last night, LeBron got his impressive numbers, but in the final minutes, wasn't much of a factor... He as much as anyone else seemed to do whatever they could to give the game away...

Personally, I think the 'Trade LeBron' movement is silly... But at the same time, if these kind of articles start showing up, I think it's our duty as Lakers fans to hold LeBron accountable for HIS part in this collective failure... Because if we don't, we might as well be Cleveland... And nobody wants to be Cleveland.

SlimShady83 · Post #74 » by **SlimShady83** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 7:11 pm

Kilroy wrote:It was a matter of time:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/dan-woike-lebron-james-carries-lakers-to-victory-but-in-the-future-he-will-need-more-help/ar-BBPcCzo

"You don't want to be around me when my patience runs out," LeBron James said."

This is the first thing I saw in that link

Inb4 he starts getting people fired OR demands that players get traded

Fooking hate this bum so much

and I have several reason why - I wish we could trade him. I know we won't, it's just a dream of mine

SlimShady83 · Post #75 » by **SlimShady83** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 7:13 pm

"In the West, James won't be able to do it alone - he'll need help - and he'll have to position himself in ways to get it."

Another quote in the link

LOL He couldn't do it alone in the weak ass east, what makes you think he'll do it alone in the west? we all know he needs help.

We need at least 2 other allstars with him if not 3 being in the West

thebigbird · Post #76 » by **thebigbird** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 7:17 pm

EZ GG LOSER wrote:
Kilroy wrote:It was a matter of time:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/dan-woike-lebron-james-carries-lakers-to-victory-but-in-the-future-he-will-need-more-help/ar-BBPcCzo

"You don't want to be around me when my patience runs out," LeBron James said."

This is the first thing I saw in that link

Inb4 he starts getting people fired OR demands that players get traded

Fooking hate this bum so much

and I have several reason why - I wish we could trade him. I know we won't, it's just a dream of mine

You should probably read more carefully. If you had you would've seen that he was directly asked what happens when his patience runs out. That quote is nothing.

From some of the reactions you'd think LeBron is stinking up the joint. He's averaging 28/9/8 on 51% shooting this season. Hardly the numbers of a bum, and he's only getting better as the season goes. He's averaging 30/9/7 on 56% shooting over the past four games.

Post #77 » by **milesfides** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 7:46 pm

Yes, but we've consistently been unable to keep leads (aside from the very bad Phoenix team) and close games down the stretch. In other words, we're unable to get defensive stops.

Lebron used to be a defensive force, but not anymore (actually, since 2016-2017). I had some hope that his defensive decline might be due to teammates or an off-year, but no, three straight seasons and this one is the worst at 34 years old. There's only so much you can try to explain away.

Objectively, he looks disinterested over the course of the game, and down the stretch, even worse - incapable. This isn't just about building around Lebron. This is about trying to make up for Lebron's weaknesses. Can't build a championship that way.

If you're paying him 40 million dollars and 150 over four years to deflect responsibility and blame these young talented kids around him (can't say he's helped any of our young guys), then sorry, forget about championship. That's a bad situation.

In sum, Lebron won't be able to carry a team like a true superstar, because he's simply not one anymore. Once you start making excuses, it's over. The reason why I'm so adamant about trading him is that he still has value. He's still very good in many areas. Most of the media is perpetuating the narrative that he's as good as ever and the problem is everybody else.

Good. Let's keep them thinking that he hasn't fallen off a cliff.

But he will, which is why we need to free ourselves from him before he drags all of us down to hell for another half-decade. Again, we've seen this movie before.

bb22 · Post #78 » by **bb22** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 9:17 pm

This type of overreaction is so typical with Bron teams. The schedule has been rough to start and they are still settling into their roles and tendencies. Another tough back to back this weekend, with a late game in Portland and facing a rested Raps the next day, but after that the schedule settles down quite a bit. They’ll look like a new team in 2 week time.

what would jack bauer do? · Post #79 » by **what would jack bauer do?** » Thu Nov 1, 2018 9:19 pm

I agree his defense has been lazy thus far. But what has me kinda scared is he can't get downhill on his drives at the end of games. He was never great at that and always had to back up to create a huge head of steam, but his ability to close the game last night was bad again. It's beginning to look like that'll be the pattern. So much so, that i felt more comfortable with Ingram being our go to guy. And I don't even think Ingram is good at that, he's still a year or two away from being a legit closer.

Landsberger · Post #80 » by **Landsberger** » Fri Nov 2, 2018 1:22 am

All this stuff about individuals defense or lack of defense ignores the reality that team defense is not a collection of individual defenders. Effective defense is a group of 5 guys working together. It rarely has to do with athleticism, length or speed rather it's about buying into a system, length of time in that system and trusting your teammates. The era of the "advanced stat" has everyone focusing on individuals rather on how the group plays together. Everyone is looking at their least favorite Laker to blame the poor defense on it seems. The true culprit is lack of time, new lineups every "shift" and a system that may not match the talents of the team.

It's no coincidence that young teams typically do not achieve on defense. It's also no coincidence that championship caliber teams have had at least a couple years mostly together before they start playing championship defense. Experience as a player and as a group is key on that end of the floor.... much more so than feeding flawed stats into algorithms and ranking individual players.

Our team has the pieces and there is ample effort to play better defense. This is where coaching pays the best dividends at the NBA level IMHO. Luke needs to pick a rotation and stick with it for more than a half to start.

Our rocky start isn't surprising to me at all. We overvalue our youth because we all want them to be the next superstar Lakers. I think the future is now for most of them in terms of ceiling on getting the most from their innate talent.... it's time to grow in experience and learn roles. Bron is what he is at this point. He's by far the best player on this team. He's also a guy who needs a team around him that plays a certain way. We all knew that when he came here. My guess is if these guys don't fit we'll change the guys rather than change out Bron.