Pre-Season Games

[Ball so hard]

How long are we going to keep saying AD has to play better. This goes all the way back to last season. 38% FG in the pre-season. Really? I won't even get started on his free throw shooting. I'm definitely concerned. I have little to no confidence in AD being a pick n pop guy at this point. Last two seasons he shot 41% from 10-16 ft and 33% for 16-3P. I won't even mention his 3P%. This is a player who's repeatedly said he prefers to play PF. I can't think of a decent PF who takes as many jumpers as he in today's game and shoots so poorly. Forget the role players,, this team isn't going anywhere unless AD plays like a top 15 player.

I expect this team will struggle for at least the first month of the season. Defense has been really awful thus far.

[Hans1984]

I turned it off after the first quarter. Couldn't watch this sh.tshow any longer...

[tamaraw08]

Yeah, we’ll have to wait and see. Last season we were the best defensive team in the league. I think we can be a top 3-5 defensive team even without Caruso and Kuzma.

I pray to God that you are right. A couple of years ago, Rob hired shooters like Cook and Daniels, Vogel didn't play them bec they were bad defenders.
*Pelinka also brought in Waiters and Smith, both barely played.
*They also picked up Ben Mcclemore after getting bought out, also barely played.
*(Rob also acquired Harrell, he played like 20+ mins in spite of having very good offensive numbers.
* Marc Gasol also got benched bec he gets exposed when he had to switch in the perimeter. Vogel is locked in defensively and hate players who are not good defenders but offense suffers too.
Pelinka now is challenging Frank to REALLY COACH defense by trading KCP, KUZ, and not retaining Caruso and letting go of Matthews.
Vogel is down to ONE defensive minded player in Bazemore and after 4 games, they have allowed at least 117 pts/game, 3 games more than 121 points.

I hope you’re wrong, lol.

Moving AD to the five must in part be to cover for Westbrook’s lack of team defense, and due to the lack of Caruso and Kuzma.

I sure hope I am wrong too. Win less in preseason, heading to the Kings, AD plays 33 mins, Lebron and WB play 29 mins, Bazemore 28 mins and they allow 116 pts. I guess you can blame the bad defense of Ellington, Monk and Nunn, right? oh wait they didn't play.

[Kilroy]

I know it's 'just the preseason' but I think no matter how you spin it, going 0-6 is still a failure...

Something clearly isn't working out, and I would hope loyalty isn't considered when identifying a fix.

Injuries are a factor, and I can see how a lot may have been riding on THT helping out on the perimeter, but Ariza?

And AD just hasn't been a superstar for us for over a season now. The Westbrook experiment only sort of makes sense if AD is dominant. If he's not dominant at either the 4 or the 5, Westbrook doesn't make sense at all...

[Ballerhogger]

0-6 doesnt look good but we pulled starters last night so clearly we didnt care about wnning or lossing any of these games. Lebron , westbrook played better. AD needed get into shape. Westbrook look better last night. We face warriors tuesday night who might have klay back.

[Landsberger]

I've caught parts of 3 games... smaller parts but it's been painful. AD fade aways from 18 when he has opportunity to attack. LeBron isolations while everyone stands still and Westbrook being Westbrook. If Bron or Davis miss any significant time this group might miss the playoff in the West unless some very old dogs learn new tricks.

[stan francisco]

Ariza, if healthy would’ve maybe played 12 minutes in the last pre-season game so it wouldn’t have changed things much.

THT could’ve singlehandedly changed the outcome of a game or two, but I’m one of those who read very little negative from pre-season game results, simply because they don’t count.

When it’s a regular season game, it will force things on each team to start locking in.

[bb22]

I’m excited to see what AD can do this year. I don’t think he has the mentality to bring it every game. I think he can do it in stretches, or every 3-4 games. He needs someone to push him non-stop.
Looks like another year of relying heavily on Lebron.

[LAKESHOW]

I've always said Chemistry is Key. This whole new crew will take time to figure. Coach can't start all old, we lose team speed. So Vogel is under the gun to figure out lineups.

[stan francisco]

I've always said Chemistry is Key. This whole new crew will take time to figure. Coach can't start all old, we lose team speed. So Vogel is under the gun to figure out lineups.

One chemistry related concept I’d vote for would be to play Rondo only when AD is on the floor. Rondo keeps AD engaged. The lobs get him going on the defensive end but AD also loves Rondo’s positional defense. They play well together effortlessly. Chemistry.

[TylersLakers]

It’s a brand new team. In Vogel’s defense I trust.

If they had Caruso instead of THT or Kendrick Nunn, I'd agree.

But we cheaped out, let him walk, and we'll pay the consequences. We're one guard/forward combo short defensively.

[stan francisco]

It’s a brand new team. In Vogel’s defense I trust.

If they had Caruso instead of THT or Kendrick Nunn, I'd agree.

But we cheaped out, let him walk, and we'll pay the consequences. We're one guard/forward combo short defensively.

It’s like Fisher going for the money in 2003. Too bad.

With THT and Ariza healthy, we’d have more optimistic thoughts. Bazemore’s defense is now under the microscope.

[tamaraw08]

How long are we going to keep saying AD has to play better. This goes all the way back to last season. 38% FG in the pre-season. Really? I won't even get started on his free throw shooting. I'm definitely concerned. I have little to no confidence in AD being a pick n pop guy at this point. Last two seasons he shot 41% from 10-16 ft and 33% for 16-3P. I won't even mention his 3P%. This is a player who's repeatedly said he prefers to play PF. I can't think of a decent PF who takes as many jumpers as he in today's game and shoots so poorly. Forget the role players,, this team isn't going anywhere unless AD plays like a top 15 player.

I expect this team will struggle for at least the first month of the season. Defense has been really awful thus far.

Great points, I think I posted disturbing stats about AD last year too, but I was more focused on the rise of his attempts from beyond 10 feet and the decrease of his FT attempts. His TS% last year was his LOWEST in 9 career seasons, FT rate of under 35% his lowest in 8 years as compared to 48% in 2019. I compare him to a spoiled little brat kid who toys with his food. He is so good and he knows it that he wants to re-invent himself with his fancy dribbles, step back, taking a runner off with a wrong foot etc.
The good news is he knows when flip the switch in the playoffs esp game 2 and 3 vs the Suns.
But you mention about their awful defense? Do you still remember about our interesting "discussion" regarding this, several weeks ago?
I re watched the Kings game and saw how Carmelo guarded Hield with his eyes instead of moving his feet. Buddy positioned himself just a quarter inch beyond the 3pt area and calmly took his open shot. Hopefully Frank would show these types of clips and to everyone and hold everyone accountable. I can see Vogel kneeling down to Rob, begging him to get Avery Bradley asap.

[Ball so hard]

How long are we going to keep saying AD has to play better. This goes all the way back to last season. 38% FG in the pre-season. Really? I won't even get started on his free throw shooting. I'm definitely concerned. I have little to no confidence in AD being a pick n pop guy at this point. Last two seasons he shot 41% from 10-16 ft and 33% for 16-3P. I won't even mention his 3P%. This is a player who's repeatedly said he prefers to play PF. I can't think of a decent PF who takes as many jumpers as he in today's game and shoots so poorly. Forget the role players,, this team isn't going anywhere unless AD plays like a top 15 player.

I expect this team will struggle for at least the first month of the season. Defense has been really awful thus far.

Great points, I think I posted disturbing stats about AD last year too, but I was more focused on the rise of his attempts from beyond 10 feet and the decrease of his FT attempts. His TS% last year was his LOWEST in 9 career seasons, FT rate of under 35% his lowest in 8 years as compared to 48% in 2019. I compare him to a spoiled little brat kid who toys with his food. He is so good and he knows it that he wants to re-invent himself with his fancy dribbles, step back, taking a runner off with a wrong foot etc.
The good news is he knows when flip the switch in the playoffs esp game 2 and 3 vs the Suns.
But you mention about their awful defense? Do you still remember about our interesting "discussion" regarding this, several weeks ago?
I re watched the Kings game and saw how Carmelo guarded Hield with his eyes instead of moving his feet. Buddy positioned himself just a quarter inch beyond the 3pt area and calmly took his open shot. Hopefully Frank would show these types of clips and to everyone and hold everyone accountable. I can see Vogel kneeling down to Rob, begging him to get Avery Bradley asap.

Yeah. I still think our defense will end up being ranked somewhere in the middle. I believe this was my position over the summer. You mentioned we brought in several poor defenders - this is true. However, an elite or good defense-minded coach if you prefer, should be able to get this group of several poor defenders and a few solid ones to play average defense or better. Anything worse would be considered a failure.

It pains me to watch Melo on defense. Nunn is equally as bad. I’d say give the team some time to gel…good team defense usually requires good chemistry.


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[JVL]

These pre-season games were some dark stuff...From our main pieces only Lebron has looked just about ready for the season to start...

It's "only" pre-season but I can't say I'm happy with what I saw. AD concerns me.

[tamaraw08]

How long are we going to keep saying AD has to play better. This goes all the way back to last season. 38% FG in the pre-season. Really? I won't even get started on his free throw shooting. I'm definitely concerned. I have little to no confidence in AD being a pick n pop guy at this point. Last two seasons he shot 41% from 10-16 ft and 33% for 16-3P. I won't even mention his 3P%. This is a player who's repeatedly said he prefers to play PF. I can't think of a decent PF who takes as many jumpers as he in today's game and shoots so poorly. Forget the role players,, this team isn't going anywhere unless AD plays like a top 15 player.

I expect this team will struggle for at least the first month of the season. Defense has been really awful thus far.

Great points, I think I posted disturbing stats about AD last year too, but I was more focused on the rise of his attempts from beyond 10 feet and the decrease of his FT attempts. His TS% last year was his LOWEST in 9 career seasons, FT rate of under 35% his lowest in 8 years as compared to 48% in 2019. I compare him to a spoiled little brat kid who toys with his food. He is so good and he knows it that he wants to re-invent himself with his fancy dribbles, step back, taking a runner off with a wrong foot etc.
The good news is he knows when flip the switch in the playoffs esp game 2 and 3 vs the Suns.
But you mention about their awful defense? Do you still remember about our interesting "discussion" regarding this, several weeks ago?
I re watched the Kings game and saw how Carmelo guarded Hield with his eyes instead of moving his feet. Buddy positioned himself just a quarter inch beyond the 3pt area and calmly took his open shot. Hopefully Frank would show these types of clips and to everyone and hold everyone accountable. I can see Vogel kneeling down to Rob, begging him to get Avery Bradley asap.

Yeah. I still think our defense will end up being ranked somewhere in the middle. I believe this was my position over the summer. You mentioned we brought in several poor defenders - this is true. However, an elite or good defense-minded coach if you prefer, should be able to get this group of several poor defenders and a few solid ones to play average defense or better. Anything worse would be considered a failure.

It pains me to watch Melo on defense. Nunn is equally as bad. I’d say give the team some time to gel…good team defense usually requires good chemistry.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I just don't hope but actually PRAY that you and Stan are right about their defense. I've been a Vogel doubter and I would love to be proven wrong just like KCP fed me crow. I re-watched the Kings game again and noticed Westbrook too was too far from his man, allowing open 3 pt shots. Lakers the past 2 seasons have been relatively successful in defending prolific guards like Lillard and Curry etc, a lot of it IMO, was bec of very good defenders, well, This coming Tues vs the Warriors with Steph and Poole etc, we shall see if Vogel can challenge his players to stick closer to shooters.

[iamworthy]

This is the beauty of basketball. When everyone isn't playing on a string it looks like a complete mess. But when everyone is hitting the same music note it's beautiful. You can clearly see RWB is still trying to figure out the offense as is the other guys. I'd be much more worried if this team had been playing together for 50 games and looked like this. Pretty simple stuff, maybe we should just believe LeBron and Westbrook when they said it's going to take sometime. They've both said it 100 times since media day.

[TGW]

AD will be fine. You guys honestly expect him to attack the rim during preseason?

Hell, if I were the coach, Lebron and AD aren't playing in meaningless games (by the way, I'm a Wizards fan and wanted to check on how Westbrook's been playing, and was shocked by the posts regarding AD).

[TheHartBreakKid]

I think the two extremes here are:

1. Preseason doesn't matter at all...team will come off firing and start with playing dominant basketball
2. Preseason is a great sign of what's to come....till will start off like the 2013 team and dig themselves in a whole that they may never recover from.


I think the middleground is what's most likely. I think the results in the preseason raise a valid concern about how this team will start the season. I think even ignoring the winless record, and focusing on the times that the stars did play together, it's pretty showing that there will be a learning process for this team, which will be reflected on the team's early record. However, I don't think there is any reason to think that the Westbrook experiment is failing/will fail, or to fully think that the team isn't capable of playing winning basketball early in the season.

I think the most likely scenario is that the team will start off slow and hover around 0.500 to start the season before really gathering momentum. We will see some dominant performances where everything clicks. We will see some underwhelming performances where the team manages to pull out a win just based on pure talent. And we will have a couple of "those games" where everything is off and a motivated more fluid team will run us out of the building.

I'm predicting a 5-5, 4-6, or 6-4 type of start for the first 10 games. But barring a major injuries or a full on chemistry collapse, I think it'll be all up from there

[tamaraw08]

I think the two extremes here are:

1. Preseason doesn't matter at all...team will come off firing and start with playing dominant basketball
2. Preseason is a great sign of what's to come....till will start off like the 2013 team and dig themselves in a whole that they may never recover from.


I think the middleground is what's most likely. I think the results in the preseason raise a valid concern about how this team will start the season. I think even ignoring the winless record, and focusing on the times that the stars did play together, it's pretty showing that there will be a learning process for this team, which will be reflected on the team's early record. However, I don't think there is any reason to think that the Westbrook experiment is failing/will fail, or to fully think that the team isn't capable of playing winning basketball early in the season.

I think the most likely scenario is that the team will start off slow and hover around 0.500 to start the season before really gathering momentum. We will see some dominant performances where everything clicks. We will see some underwhelming performances where the team manages to pull out a win just based on pure talent. And we will have a couple of "those games" where everything is off and a motivated more fluid team will run us out of the building.

I'm predicting a 5-5, 4-6, or 6-4 type of start for the first 10 games. But barring a major injuries or a full on chemistry collapse, I think it'll be all up from there

I'll take it if it's a regular balanced schedule but their first 7 of 10 games are at home including 2 versus Houston, 2 of 3 road games are against the Spurs and Thunder. The first 2 games vs the Warriors and the Suns would be their toughest IMO. They can butcher bad teams and squeak by decent squads but the question is if they will actually improve esp on the defensive side.