Official trade thread 2012-13

[Jajwanda]

I did one better.

Pheonix gets Duhon+Ed Davis for Dudley- Next year they cut Duhon which makes their financial part in this deal about even.

Memphis gets- Dudley and Ross along with a filler, probably Devin Ebanks (Huge financial savings, plus rebuilding with a new SG and SF on the cheap next year when Allen would need to be paid).

Toronto gets their guy while not giving up Derozan, but has to take on Blake.

L.A. raises payroll this year to lower payroll next year. They get Calderon to get Pau Gasol really going off the bench.

[TyCobb]

Where's trade seer when you need him?

[Kilroy]

Living in a shack in the woods working on his manifesto?

[Jetset]

To not trade Derozan or a future pick.

no offence, well you can't really say anyone is awful at anything and expect everything to be ok just because someone says no offence, but these trades are absolutely downright awful.

there is absolutely no need for phoenix, as none of what they give up is even remotely enticing. there is no incentive for memphis, who as this deal is laid out, can only turn rudy gay into jared dudley, chris duhon, someone with the last name anderson that no one even knew existed before you posting this, and an LA 1st rounder. that's it, that's the best they could do. there is no need for toronto to include la or phoenix as they could do a straight up deal with memphis and get away with only including one of davis/ross, and LA has already lost one 1st round lottery pick i'm willing to bet it'll be an awfully long time before we start trading picks again. especially considering we can't trade one until 2017.

what is it that came into your mind that thought that trade was 1.) completely doable for all parties, 2.) post worthy?

[Jajwanda]

That's an "interesting" point of view on it.

I did a revision that had Jared Dudley and Terrence Ross going to Memphis with dramatic savings and no Chris Duhon in the deal for them. 8m in savings plus a Tony Allen replacement that can play off the ball as Mayo did, Jared Dudley a Shane Battier clone, and over 16m in cap savings over the next two years.

Pheonix would get Duhon and Ed Davis for Jared Dudley, which makes sense since they need a young big man for the future and they'll cut Duhon next year making it an even money trade.

Toronto would take on Blake to facilitate getting Rudy Gay without giving up Derozan.

If Memphis could do a straight-up deal it would have happened. Did you ignore the whole trying to find a taker for Calderon part?

[Jetset]

how do you know what would've happened? it sounds to me memphis is still fielding offers. and from what marc stein reports which is that while toronto is the most aggressive team going after gay, memphis is still fielding offers for him, i'm going to have to venture that i'm right.

your explanation still doesn't make any sense, as all memphis has to do is trade gay and get whatever in return and they've already shrunk the pay roll by about $10 just in one year alone. and calderon is an expiring, toronto could just as easily trade him for picks if need be.

[Jajwanda]

The difference is that by moving Calderon they save much more. Calderon plus Ross and Davis amounts to close to if not greater than Gay's salary this year. If the Lakers get involved and take Calderon, while giving up lesser contracts, it could potentially save Memphis 6-7m this year in addition to another 8m next year.

Calderon must be in this deal to get it done.

Toronto is desperate for the deal and has no cap room next year. I think you can stick Blake on them if it gets the deal done and makes it that much more enticing for Memphis.

[Jetset]

what part of memphis could deal solely with toronto and no one but toronto and get back better players and cap savings than what you've proposed is difficult?

memphis could take back ross or davis, lucas iii, and klezia and save $7 for just this year of gay's contract alone had a trade like this been done before the season started. they save even more than that as gay's contract goes up to $19 mil in 2014.

i didn't give any serious thought to that trade and it already looks just like yours considering the positions of the players that are going to memphis, only better than yours, with memphis getting one of ross/davis, and memphis ends up saving the same amount of money.

and who says calderon has to be included if a deal with memphis is to be done? why can't toronto trade him in a separate deal or just let him expire? toronto is not in the luxury tax.

[LApwnd]

I've always felt Calderon stats are misleading and his asst/to ratio is overrated/over inflated, as in he doesn't actually create easy shots for others, its his teammates that are getting in good position and he's just basically making the correct read/pass. With that said if we dont give up any siginficant pieces from our core, he would be a welcome addition, I'd imagine Jose/Pau PnR would be a nightmare for opposing 2nd unit teams to defend.

[Slava]

You mean his teammates are better than what 80% of the rest of NBA point guards have?

[LApwnd]

You mean his teammates are better than what 80% of the rest of NBA point guards have?

well I didnt' see him particularly do anything spectacular outside of PnR plays when we faced Tor, most of his assist came by way of his teammates cutting and our players not paying attention to their guys. His high asst #'s and ass/to would lead you to think he affects the game like cp3 does and it clearly does not.

[Jajwanda]

what part of memphis could deal solely with toronto and no one but toronto and get back better players and cap savings than what you've proposed is difficult?

memphis could take back ross or davis, lucas iii, and klezia and save $7 for just this year of gay's contract alone had a trade like this been done before the season started. they save even more than that as gay's contract goes up to $19 mil in 2014.

i didn't give any serious thought to that trade and it already looks just like yours considering the positions of the players that are going to memphis, only better than yours, with memphis getting one of ross/davis, and memphis ends up saving the same amount of money.

and who says calderon has to be included if a deal with memphis is to be done? why can't toronto trade him in a separate deal or just let him expire? toronto is not in the luxury tax.

Memphis can't do that because the deal wouldn't go through. 9m for 16m would not work. Your trade is not better since Memphis does not get one of Ross/Davis and has Kleiza's 4m on the books instead of Duhon's 1.8m.

Lucas III and Kleiza? Do you really think Memphis wants 5.5m of that crap on their books instead of a measly 1.8m?

[Jetset]

i can see we're getting absolutely nowhere with this. go post your trade on the trade board and see what responses you get.

a trade where memphis gives up the best player and gets back dudley and duhon, while the suns give up nothing and get ross and davis. go post it, i dare you.

[Slava]

You mean his teammates are better than what 80% of the rest of NBA point guards have?

well I didnt' see him particularly do anything spectacular outside of PnR plays when we faced Tor, most of his assist came by way of his teammates cutting and our players not paying attention to their guys. His high asst #'s and ass/to would lead you to think he affects the game like cp3 does and it clearly does not.

You are making an assumption off one game. He leads that team in offensive win shares, offensive rating, ast% and pretty much any offensive stat and if not for Kyle Lowry, you can say that he's basically the main shot creator on that roster.

I haven't looked at this on/off stats and I don't think they'd tell me otherwise either.

[Jajwanda]

i can see we're getting absolutely nowhere with this. go post your trade on the trade board and see what responses you get.

a trade where memphis gives up the best player and gets back dudley and duhon, while the suns give up nothing and get ross and davis. go post it, i dare you.

I'm terrified of the response the general board will give me. Woe is the one that gets shelled out on the general message board. I might as well shoot myself if they don't like a deal I propose

If I had proposed the Sessions deal or the Howard deal the forum would have erupted in Laker hate.

To sum it all up who gives a **** about the general board?

Second when this deal is done you'll see that Memphis has specific goals to reach in this deal. It doesn't matter what you think of it. It's what they need and what they need are young role players, perhaps a pick, and significant financial savings. Rudy Gay's value isn't nearly what you make it out to be.

[Booze2009]

Why not Calderon for Steve Blake and Chris duhon , per trade checker this should work and the laker could be done with Blake bad contract?

[LApwnd]

You mean his teammates are better than what 80% of the rest of NBA point guards have?

well I didnt' see him particularly do anything spectacular outside of PnR plays when we faced Tor, most of his assist came by way of his teammates cutting and our players not paying attention to their guys. His high asst #'s and ass/to would lead you to think he affects the game like cp3 does and it clearly does not.

You are making an assumption off one game. He leads that team in offensive win shares, offensive rating, ast% and pretty much any offensive stat and if not for Kyle Lowry, you can say that he's basically the main shot creator on that roster.

I haven't looked at this on/off stats and I don't think they'd tell me otherwise either.

ask any Tor fans and they will say the same thing about his true offensive creations on the team, why wouldn't he lead the team in asst% the ball is in his hands almost every possesion, why dont you check his usage rate, i bet its also the highest on the team. No matter, I'm not against the trade but I still stand by my assesement that his teammates are the ones creating the asst for him rather then him creating easy shots for them. Its not like Cp3 type of PG who diverts alot of attention from his teammates with his ability to brake down defenses.

[Slava]

I don't think his usage is even top 5

[Mamba Venom]

This teams needs consistency but that may come at the cost of getting a great wing talent

Tough call the next 3 weeks.

[AcecardZ]

I realize Nash has been injured, is older and lost maybe half a step but if he can't come to the team and fix our pg problems no way Jose Calderon is going to be able to either.

It's Jose freaking Calderon! Not Magic Johnson.