The #2 Pick

Post #781 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 5:48 pm

In what way?

Completely different everything.

Post #782 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 5:55 pm

Smart was getting a lot of hype leading up to the draft but when he came and worked out for us, he looked slow and unathletic... Big and muscular, but slow. His shot was OK but his release was slow and a little goofy.

I understand that Russel and Smart are different physically, but in order for a guard's game to translate in the NBA, he has to be quick...

So I was wondering if Russel looked slow, was his game going to translate. It was a question more than a statement.

Post #783 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:00 pm

It would be an issue if he didn't have good handles. He is a much better dribbler than Smart. He also has much better footwork. He's 'crafty' with the ball so he doesn't need to be Clarkson fast.

kblo247 · Post #784 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:18 pm

TyCobb wrote:It would be an issue if he didn't have good handles. He is a much better dribbler than Smart. He also has much better footwork. He's 'crafty' with the ball so he doesn't need to be Clarkson fast.

He doesn't have them though. It's why he got his ass locked down all year by ncaa guys that aren't Matt Barnes level athletes and defenders. He can't shake guys off for space. He just doesn't separate from them bro, his right hand is way too weak, and I'm not talking Odom and Manu I don't use it to shoot weak, as they could cross over and keep you on a string with their rights at least as the lead hand. He's a guy who is going to kill guys with a bunch of picks, not one on ones.

Post #785 » by **Kilroy** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:20 pm

TyCobb wrote:It would be an issue if he didn't have good handles. He is a much better dribbler than Smart. He also has much better footwork. He's 'crafty' with the ball so he doesn't need to be Clarkson fast.

Fair enough, I haven't seen any workout videos of him yet... Obviously, he's a lottery player and probably a top-5 pick... But I wonder if even with his obvious strengths, he's worthy of consideration for the top 2 picks if he doesn't also have leading quickness.
Speed isn't usually something that increases after players get into NBA muscularity.

Is he quicker than Mudiya? He looks smaller in the picks I've seen. I know his stats, but I don't entirely believe them for the prospects.

kblo247 · Post #786 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:23 pm

I am not saying he is a terrible pick though just that he's not a NBA pg.

The top pg is Mudiay, top sg is Russell, top SF is Mario, top pf is Towns, and top center is Okafor. Towns and Russell are not the position they played in college in this league. Towns is was to weak and Russell is just not explosive enough to be a NBA 1 and 5, but they will have great careers if they work hard and stay mentally straight

If we select Russell i would support him and hope Kobe teaches him a lot. Hell hope he starts at the sg with Kobe at SF and Kobe and clarkson creating for him. Just don't think he's the number two pick or that he's more talented than Mudiay or Mario athletically

kblo247 · Post #787 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:25 pm

I would probably say Mudiay would lap him and out jump him. That said I'm not sure Mudiay is quicker in bursts off a pick than him just because Russell had a shot that you have to play

Post #788 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:31 pm

kblo247 wrote:
TyCobb wrote:It would be an issue if he didn't have good handles. He is a much better dribbler than Smart. He also has much better footwork. He's 'crafty' with the ball so he doesn't need to be Clarkson fast.

He doesn't have them though. It's why he got his ass locked down all year by ncaa guys that aren't Matt Barnes level athletes and defenders. He can't shake guys off for space. He just doesn't separate from them bro, his right hand is way too weak, and I'm not talking Odom and Manu I don't use it to shoot weak, as they could cross over and keep you on a string with their rights at least as the lead hand. He's a guy who is going to kill guys with a bunch of picks, not one on ones.

You're flat out wrong here. His handles, shot, and passing have been praised all year long...

Post #789 » by **Slava** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:34 pm

Smart was high usage, high turnover PG with a shaky shot in college with no actual PG skills. Russell is the entire opposite of that.

kblo247 · Post #790 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:44 pm

TyCobb wrote:
kblo247 wrote:
TyCobb wrote:It would be an issue if he didn't have good handles. He is a much better dribbler than Smart. He also has much better footwork. He's 'crafty' with the ball so he doesn't need to be Clarkson fast.

He doesn't have them though. It's why he got his ass locked down all year by ncaa guys that aren't Matt Barnes level athletes and defenders. He can't shake guys off for space. He just doesn't separate from them bro, his right hand is way too weak, and I'm not talking Odom and Manu I don't use it to shoot weak, as they could cross over and keep you on a string with their rights at least as the lead hand. He's a guy who is going to kill guys with a bunch of picks, not one on ones.

You're flat out wrong here. His handles, shot, and passing have been praised all year long...

Never said he can't shoot or pass. I said his handles aren't quality and he can't get separation vs nba like athletes. He proved that all year long. RHJ put the clamps on that ass, Stanley Johnson put the clamps on that ass, and it happened whenever they played a good team with athletic nba like wings. He's not able to shake them off and he becomes a 3-19, 4/15 type guy. There's no harden or Manu shake and bake, no step back ala curry, and damn sure no I'll make you dance and brwak you off like Kobe/AI/T-Mac. His handles are very mundane. Cracked out odom right now could probably out dribble him. Its a weakness that got exposed in the tourney. He definelty has a beautiful vision when it comes to passing, hell a flare with it too, but his weakness at the nba level will be because of his handle on O, inability to finish up close, and his D.

I maintain its simpler to draft a big and max Dragic who actually can shoot like him and will finish amongst trees 70% of the time.

kblo247 · Post #791 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:48 pm

More and more I look at this draft, I keep coming back to

Towns - sign Rondo and Hibbert
Okafor - almost max Dragic with 17 mil or so and pay Danny Green
Mudiay - pay Tobias and Tyson Chandler
Russell - give DJ close to the the max and pay Carroll

Post #792 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 6:52 pm

You watched one tourney game on Russell and got the book on him. Got it.

I hope you're just trolling me, kblo.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGjtVa4VMw[/youtube]

kblo247 · Post #793 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:08 pm

MSU put valentine on him who is the same height but more muscle ... 7-16 ... They did it earlier that year too with valentine 4-13

Wisconsin trapped him by having Dekker help and hedge ...7-18 and 5 turnovers all off the dribble they stripped him of

The Hoosiers thee Troy Williams on him and made him shoot over the top of length .. 3/15

Unc staight up switched everything on the perimeter vs him when he tried to come around and he went 4/17 and settled for 10 threes because he couldn't penetrate at all and there was a debate (more like skip laughing and saying I told yall so on first take over his failure)

Louisville got with him to the tune of 6-20 ... To his credit rozier shot like **** because he was dead chasing him all game but he still was locked up and turned it over 4 times, three off the dribble and one a bad jump pass which he changed mid air as his shot was about to be sent back

RHJ and Stanlet put the icing on him on the biggest stage

But make no mistake he struggles vs NBA like length and physciality. He can't break you down and unlike you reading his numbers vs bs teams like Rutgers in a weak ass conference, I saw him play multiple times .. It's what ESPN full court was invented for.

He's not even close to a handle he needs to be a pg in the league or even Kobe/AI/ TMac at sg when they all came in and had the ball on a string.

kblo247 · Post #794 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:11 pm

He is going to do damage copying Reggie Rip and Ray. Run you ragged off picks to get his separation away from the ball and splash them, and then if you alter his shot or close quick by his passing which none of them had. He's not going to break you one on one at this level when he's got a top wing on him

kblo247 · Post #795 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:16 pm

If he was able to separate vs guys ala Kobe off an ISO, oh hell yeah he's the number 1 pick IMO. I just don't and haven't seen it

Post #796 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:19 pm

kblo247 wrote:If he was able to separate vs guys ala Kobe off an ISO, oh hell yeah he's the number 1 pick IMO. I just don't and haven't seen it

Kobe could do that and also shoot 4-17 from the field so weird you bring him up.

Russell is not a Kobe though. He's what you were stating he's not earlier in this thread.. Harden/Ginobili. He's a facilitating combo guard who can shoot and pass with the best of them. Russell and Embiid pick n rolls are gonna be lethal.

kblo247 · Post #797 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:24 pm

TyCobb wrote:
kblo247 wrote:If he was able to separate vs guys ala Kobe off an ISO, oh hell yeah he's the number 1 pick IMO. I just don't and haven't seen it

Kobe could do that and also shoot 4-17 from the field so weird you bring him up.

Russell is not a Kobe though. He's what you were stating he's not earlier in this thread.. Harden/Ginobili. He's a facilitating combo guard who can shoot and pass with the best of them. Russell and Embiid pick n rolls are gonna be lethal.

Manu was athletic as ****, wreckless as hell when he was younger which got him hurt, but he was on a different level as an athlete IMO than harden or Russell.

Assuming he tightens up the handle, why not take him if you're Minny? If they can find a Rubio deal, you would have to think he has a better shot than Rubio of creating something like run TMC with them. I mean Rubio for a big should not be too hard. They have money to spend and Dieng can play. I really see more reasons for them to take him or Mudiay than I do us, even thought I'm done for taking a small since that's the real laker way

Post #798 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:25 pm

Sounds like Rubio could go to NY for #4.

kblo247 · Post #799 » by **kblo247** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:28 pm

TyCobb wrote:Sounds like Rubio could go to NY for #4.

It wouldn't really hurt for Minny to explore Rubio being dealt. It's basically a mini love thing. He's not a leader, he's always hurt, and his weakness hasn't changed. Love was an eye sore on D and Rubio still can't shoot or score in a half court set. They need to completely refresh the thing IMO. Rubio has talent and can pass, but he's in need of a change too IMO, and could be a Harper type player in the triangle. Send NY Bennett as a former lotto pick to sweeten it :lol:

DEEP3CL · Post #800 » by **DEEP3CL** » Mon Jun 8, 2015 7:33 pm

ALL HAIL wrote:
DEEP3CL wrote:@john248...Understand that I said he had the natural ability to be a 20 points scorer. This means he had the body type,footwork,could hold his post position easily, was a more than decent free throw shooter....all these elements play into that.
It's not about me having some attachment to him just because I saw him in high school. Hell the center for my high school team use to muder Campbell on a regular basis when they matched up because he was a bigger guy than Campbell. You just never heard of him because he was the classic academic failure who didn't make it.

Hell Elden wasn't even a 20 point scorer in college because he played with NBA ready guys such as Horace Grant at Clemson.

Weather you like it or not you have to be utilized properly by your coaches and Harris was a bad coach for Campbell because as kblo247 pointed out, it how he used him. Harris basically wanted Campbell to be a scraps guy.

Elden Campbell played with Dale Davis DEEP.

Also, Campbell played very well under Dell Harris. He was only misused when Shaq came.

Yeah he did but Campbell 's freshman year was Horace Grant's senior year. Davis came in Campbell's Sophomore year in 87-88.

Who do we pick