Kobe/Lakers Need a PG

ALL HAIL · Post #1 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:22 pm

I've been saying it for a few years now and after last night, it must be said again:

The Lakers, especially Kobe, need a PG who can be a quarterback.

A PG/quarterback would add years to Kobe's career. Instead of us expecting Kobe to drastically change his game to look more like Magic, Kidd, Billups, or even LBJ, let Kobe be Kobe but give him a floor general.

It's time ... it's been time.

NOTE: This thread is also intended as a counterpoint to those who feel like ALL WE NEED is a PG who can shoot and defend ... nope folks ... we need more; a PG who can shoot, defend, and actually run a team like a quarterback. Jordan had his quarterback, Kobe deserves one too.

AceFresh · Post #2 » by **AceFresh** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:52 pm

Yesterday we lost because Kobe had a 2005 mindset in a 2010 wounded/fatigued form.

We need Kobe to adjust his game like Phil said either: "Shoot less or shoot better"

the latter didn't happen and it only got worse with Durant on him.

Would it be nice to have a Amazing PG? Sure but the triangle offense and the talent surrounding the team - we just need one who can consistently knock down the 3 and adequate enough to guard opposing pg's, we've been very successful without an all-around PG, so because of these recent playoff woes that's suddenly changing?

magic1fan · Post #3 » by **magic1fan** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:38 pm

i agree. we need someone that can stay in front of the russell westbrooks and what not. a point guard is not the reason we lost yesterday though. to much kobe,and to many ticky tack fouls on us while our bigs were hacked alot.

ALL HAIL · Post #4 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm

Naw man.

Times have changed.

With the exception of last year's team, all the championship triangle teams have always had a floor general and a number one scoring option.

In Chicago, the floor general was Pippen and the number one option was Jordan.

In LA, the floor general was Kobe, and the number one option was Shaq.

Since then, our floor general has been Kobe and our number one option has been Kobe.

And we wonder why he's breaking down ... there is waaaay too much weight on his shoulders.

With the exception of last year, we have NOT been successful without an all around PG.

Kobe has been our point guard for years now.

It's time that he is allowed to focus on efficient, back to the basket scoring in the same way in which Jordan was allowed at a similiar career stage or we can simply hope that Kobe somehow reverts back to his almost unnatural and forced Shaq facilitating days ... and we all know that ain't him (if it was, that team would have been happy with one other).

ALL HAIL · Post #5 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:53 pm

I can't believe how short-sighted some of you are.

It is so abundantly clear that this team needs a guy to willfully gain control of the offense by putting the ball in the hands of the players that have an advantage.

It's ignorant to suggest that the triangle has never needed a floor general (from this point on I'll refrain from calling this player a PG because most of you are caught up in visions of fake PGs: Smush Parker, John Paxzon, BJ Armstrong, Derek Fisher, Steve Kerr, Craig Hodges, and Mike Penberthy).

I'm talking about a floor general like Pippen with Jordan and Kobe with Shaq. I could give a damn who he guards on defense, as long as this general is capable of running the offense, punching the ball into mismatches/advantages, and is NOT a defensive liability.

If not for the latter, Luke Walton would be exactly the general in which I speak.

mvpmims2003 · Post #6 » by **mvpmims2003** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:25 pm

AceFresh wrote: Yesterday we lost because Kobe had a 2005 mindset in a 2010 wounded/fatigued form.

We need Kobe to adjust his game like Phil said either: "Shoot less or shoot better"

the latter didn't happen and it only got worse with Durant on him.

Would it be nice to have a Amazing PG? Sure but the triangle offense and the talent surrounding the team - we just need one who can consistently knock down the 3 and adequate enough to guard opposing pg's, we've been very successful without an all-around PG, so because of these recent playoff woes that's suddenly changing?

I don't think Kobe deserves all of the blame. Yes Kobe took some bad shots in the fourth, however, a couple of them were due to receiving the ball with a few seconds left on the shot clock and having no choice but to take a shot. Also the big run was made while Kobe and Bynum was on the bench and it started with Odom getting dunked on by Westbrook. With the momentum that the crowd noise provided, Phil should have immediately called a timeout, but he tried to let the bench play through it and nobody stepped up.

spree2kawhi · Post #7 » by **spree2kawhi** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:39 pm

without any doubt the ball has to be more out of kobe's hands for the sake of more objective decision making. kobe certainly is a good decision maker, but at the same time he is the game's most unguardable player and he knows it. his judgement is not bad but it is subjective. he is right, he can beat anybody any time, but the team needs a more versatile concept and your no 1 option cannot be called for as the judge. he needs to be the weapon, not the one using it. there has to be someone on the floor able to give him his shots while preserving his energy. the ball has to be out of his hands a lot more, no doubt.

wreck · Post #8 » by **wreck** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:48 pm

AceFresh wrote: Yesterday we lost because Kobe had a 2005 mindset in a 2010 wounded/fatigued form.

We need Kobe to adjust his game like Phil said either: "Shoot less or shoot better"

the latter didn't happen and it only got worse with Durant on him.

Would it be nice to have a Amazing PG? Sure but the triangle offense and the talent surrounding the team - we just need one who can consistently knock down the 3 and adequate enough to guard opposing pg's, we've been very successful without an all-around PG, so because of these recent playoff woes that's suddenly changing?

After close to 15 years in the league, I think it is safe to say that Bryant in unable to adjust his game.

It may get to the point, which is what will happen after Coach Jackson leaves after the season, that they team will have to totally abandon the triangle offense.

A true PG would help the team out because nobody on the team is a good enough distributor to play the position. Maybe the team can draft a rookie, Eric Bledsoe perhaps, that could come in and help.

picc · Post #9 » by **picc** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:59 pm

We need a talented PG with ball handling and scoring abilities, because thats the only way the ball will be taken out of Kobe's hands. Not that it will always need to be - but sometimes we do need it to be. We need someone who can create their own shot and create for the other guys. Right now Kobe is the only one who can do that.

ALL HAIL · Post #10 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:28 pm

basketboule wrote:without any doubt the ball has to be more out of kobe's hands for the sake of more objective decision making. kobe certainly is a good decision maker, but at the same time he is the game's most unguardable player and he knows it. his judgement is not bad but it is subjective. he is right, he can beat anybody any time, but the team needs a more versatile concept and your no 1 option cannot be called for as the judge. he needs to be the weapon, not the one using it. there has to be someone on the floor able to give him his shots while preserving his energy. the ball has to be out of his hands a lot more, no doubt.

Right on the money my man, couldn't agree with you more.

ALL HAIL · Post #11 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:53 pm

picc wrote:We need a talented PG with ball handling and scoring abilities, because thats the only way the ball will be taken out of Kobe's hands. Not that it will always need to be - but sometimes we do need it to be. We need someone who can create their own shot and create for the other guys. Right now Kobe is the only one who can do that.

I agree that we need a floor general, but I disagree that the floor general has to have scoring ability. When you say scoring ability, I'm assuming you mean a 14 point-type scorer.

I don't think "the floor general" has to be that type of scorer. For example, Jason Kidd is far and away the near-perfect floor general prototype in my estimation. Kidd can shoot the three really well but other than that he doesn't have a great deal of scoring ability --- but he's still near perfect.

I understand your point about Kobe being the only one on the squad who can create his own shot (and that is definitely a flaw) but, to me, it's not as high on the priority list as other qualities:

1) good, smart, and respected enough to take the ball out of Kobe's hands as far as facilitation
2) a great passer/post feeder
3) aware of where the ball should go to score in the easiest way
4) a knock down shooter from deep
5) a good defender
6) a good penetrator and scorer

I'd be satisfied with a floor general who has the first 4-5 qualities. Scoring ability would be just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned but not an absolute neccessity.

DubaLakers · Post #12 » by **DubaLakers** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:29 pm

ALL HAIL wrote:I've been saying it for a few years now and after last night, it must be said again:

The Lakers, especially Kobe, need a PG who can be a quarterback.

A PG/quarterback would add years to Kobe's career. Instead of us expecting Kobe to drastically change his game to look more like Magic, Kidd, Billups, or even LBJ, let Kobe be Kobe but give him a floor general.

It's time ... it's been time.

NOTE: This thread is also intended as a counterpoint to those who feel like ALL WE NEED is a PG who can shoot and defend ... nope folks ... we need more; a PG who can shoot, defend, and actually run a team like a quarterback. Jordan had his quarterback, Kobe deserves one too.

All Hail, FYI, we need to breathe air to survive, Cars need oil, and a form or gas to run properly, babies need diapers, and we need money to buy things, and healthy grass is green. You are preaching to the choir, we all know this.

ALL HAIL · Post #13 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:38 pm

^We all know we need a PG.

Some think (as I used to) that ALL we need is a triangle PG who can shoot and defend.

A smaller amount of people (maybe more after last night) agree with me that we need a real floor general to act as a real PG to actually facilitate and organize the offense (plus shoot and defend).

There's the difference. Which side are you on?

picc · Post #14 » by **picc** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:47 pm

By scoring ability I mean the ability to create his own shot on a somewhat consistent basis. Even Kirk Hinrich can do that, you don't have to be Deron Williams. Lord knows none of our guards right now are capable.

ALL HAIL · Post #15 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:52 pm

^Would Jason Kidd qualify?

FLIPT · Post #16 » by **FLIPT** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:42 pm

I think the Lakers should draft the big guard out of Maryland. He is a triple threat and plays D. And the problem with the offense if people would watch the games is that Kobe gets the ball LATE in the shot clock after Artest and Pau hold the ball. Kobe had 4 assists in the last 5 min so kill the selfish when we lose and GREAT when we win. We need more athletes PERIOD. Ariza was an athlete, Brown is an athlete, Fisher is OLD. MJ had pound for pound the best SF ever in Pippen who in 97 Finals guarded 5 positions.

Jase · Post #17 » by **Jase** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:21 pm

ALL HAIL wrote:I've been saying it for a few years now and after last night, it must be said again:

The Lakers, especially Kobe, need a PG who can be a quarterback.

A PG/quarterback would add years to Kobe's career. Instead of us expecting Kobe to drastically change his game to look more like Magic, Kidd, Billups, or even LBJ, let Kobe be Kobe but give him a floor general.

It's time ... it's been time.

NOTE: This thread is also intended as a counterpoint to those who feel like ALL WE NEED is a PG who can shoot and defend ... nope folks ... we need more; a PG who can shoot, defend, and actually run a team like a quarterback. Jordan had his quarterback, Kobe deserves one too.

Freakin right!

Fisher was killing us on offense, taking, and missing, way too many shots, and he was getting murdered on defense. Fish would be a great backup, but we need someone younger, defensive-minded....

What I wouldn't give for a prime Ron Harper right now. And heck, a prime Charles Oakley, while we're at it.

kobesmyhomie · Post #18 » by **kobesmyhomie** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:24 pm

I know its not gonna happen but I've always thought a guy like Andre miller would be perfect for this team.

Jase · Post #19 » by **Jase** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:26 pm

kobesmyhomie wrote:I know its not gonna happen but I've always thought a guy like Andre miller would be perfect for this team.

I like that fit. I'm hoping for Darren Collison, but I can't see any way of that happening.

ALL HAIL · Post #20 » by **ALL HAIL** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:59 pm

FLIPT wrote:I think the Lakers should draft the big guard out of Maryland. He is a triple threat and plays D. And the problem with the offense if people would watch the games is that Kobe gets the ball LATE in the shot clock after Artest and Pau hold the ball. Kobe had 4 assists in the last 5 min so kill the selfish when we lose and GREAT when we win. We need more athletes PERIOD. Ariza was an athlete, Brown is an athlete, Fisher is OLD. MJ had pound for pound the best SF ever in Pippen who in 97 Finals guarded 5 positions.

Grievas Vasquez is definitely a floor general. I worry about whether or not he has the ability to defend. His best defensive position is probably 2 or 3.

That means he won't be able to play with Kobe, Artest, Gasol, and Odom/Bynum. Unfortunately, the floor general we obtain prett much has to be able to check the average NBA PG.

Vasquez can't do that. We still might draft him though. He just won't be able to be our lead guard unless he shows he can guard PGs ... which is a long shot.