Lets get this over with! Kobe vs Magic

iamworthy · Post #1 » by **iamworthy** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 2:18 am

Let me preface all this by saying Magic is my favorite player in the world. He's the GOAT to me. The only player than can dominate a game without scoring. One of the few players to win a chip at the high school level, college level, and NBA. But, Kobe has the all around game. Who is the better Basketball Player? When Magic was called the GOAT he earned that title going up against a Great...and I mean Great white man named Larry Bird. For Magic to get that title back in the 80's against at white male....with all due respect.....is huge. Bird made Magic great and Magic made Bird great.

Edit: took the MJ comment out because I want this to be about Magic and Kobe. Not MJ.

iamworthy · Post #2 » by **iamworthy** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 2:20 am

Edit: My heart wont let Kobe pass Magic...am I wrong?

EMB6903 · Post #3 » by **EMB6903** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 2:47 am

iamworthy wrote:Let me preface all this by saying Magic is my favorite player in the world. He's the GOAT to me. The only player than can dominate a game without scoring. One of the few players to win a chip at the high school level, college level, and NBA. But, Kobe has the all around game. Who is the better Basketball Player? When Magic was called the GOAT he earned that title going up against a Great...and I mean Great white man named Larry Bird. For Magic to get that title back in the 80's against at white male....with all due respect.....is huge. Bird made Magic great and Magic made Bird great. MJ won when everyone was gone. Please dont post about stockton, malone, the dream and ewing. It would be disrespectful to Magic and Bird.

Jordan won when "everybody was gone" ?

Chicago beat Los Angeles in 1991. Both Jordan and Magic were great players at that time... please dont come with the age excuse either, Jordan was winning titles in his mid 30s.

Optms · Post #4 » by **Optms** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 2:48 am

iamworthy wrote:Edit: My heart wont let Kobe pass Magic...am I wrong?

That's fair if you never see Kobe surpassing Magic. Magic's the man.

KB's accolades and achievements as a Laker are racking up rapidly both in the regular season and in the playoffs. I can see him passing Kareem easily on my Lakers list but for some reason I can't see him passing Magic with where he stands right now. He'll always be the face of the franchise to me anyway. When I think of the Lakers franchise, I think of Magic.

chefy · Post #5 » by **chefy** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 4:01 am

it is really hard/unfair to compare kobe to players that played as number 1 option the majority of their careers.

jc23 · Post #6 » by **jc23** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 4:02 am

Well it is obvious that kobe is the better defender than magic. I think on the offensive side you give magic a a slight edge But Magic is LA's first son and kobe has always been kind of alof, so magic. But nobody trump's MJ.

iamworthy · Post #7 » by **iamworthy** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 4:09 am

EMB6903 wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Let me preface all this by saying Magic is my favorite player in the world. He's the GOAT to me. The only player than can dominate a game without scoring. One of the few players to win a chip at the high school level, college level, and NBA. But, Kobe has the all around game. Who is the better Basketball Player? When Magic was called the GOAT he earned that title going up against a Great...and I mean Great white man named Larry Bird. For Magic to get that title back in the 80's against at white male....with all due respect.....is huge. Bird made Magic great and Magic made Bird great. MJ won when everyone was gone. Please dont post about stockton, malone, the dream and ewing. It would be disrespectful to Magic and Bird.

Jordan won when "everybody was gone" ?

Chicago beat Los Angeles in 1991. Both Jordan and Magic were great players at that time... please dont come with the age excuse either, Jordan was winning titles in his mid 30s.

Agree. Magic wore 2 knee braces and his hamstrings didnt bother him at all.

CowsMoo · Post #8 » by **CowsMoo** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 6:14 am

It's too hard to really judge and answer the question but as of now, in a sort of legacy and overall sense, it's Magic. And this is coming from a guy who is too young to remember most of Magic's games.

bballcool34 · Post #9 » by **bballcool34** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 3:44 pm

iamworthy wrote:Let me preface all this by saying Magic is my favorite player in the world. He's the GOAT to me. The only player than can dominate a game without scoring. One of the few players to win a chip at the high school level, college level, and NBA. But, Kobe has the all around game. Who is the better Basketball Player? When Magic was called the GOAT he earned that title going up against a Great...and I mean Great white man named Larry Bird. For Magic to get that title back in the 80's against at white male....with all due respect.....is huge. Bird made Magic great and Magic made Bird great.

Edit: took the MJ comment out because I want this to be about Magic and Kobe. Not MJ.

Magic was called the "GOAT" at times--but he never established himself as clearly better than Bird or took that title from him or anything--not sure if your suggesting this, but your post seems to imply it. People called Bird the "GOAT" as well during his epic 3 year run-- which I don't think Magic ever matched-but that's debateable. And Bird could dominate a game without scoring just like Magic.

The all-around game comment seems strange to me. I'm guessing your referring to Kobe's defense here--and I agree with it-but with all due to respect to Kobe, he has never matched the all around offensive versatility of someone like Magic---I mean "all around player" is Magic's thing really...

Kobe's not better than Magic IMO (who actually has a case for GOAT)--though it comes down to what style you prefer- I simply think Magic impacted games more. And I think part of what shows that is that you can argue for Magic over Jordan--because of that style difference--but you can't make a real argument for Kobe over Jordan.

DubaLakers · Post #10 » by **DubaLakers** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 3:49 pm

Greatest Laker List...

1. Jerry West is the one who Kobe is chasing not Magic. Jerry West was also only just the greatest GM of all time. How can Kobe ever match that? Kobe likely wouldn't be wearing purple and gold if it wasn't for Jerry West. he might of eventually got here, but not from start to finish.

kobeaki · Post #11 » by **kobeaki** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 4:30 pm

kobe will be the greatest laker , after he retires, but as bballcool said , magic has an an argument for greatest ever, and in my opinion , is. that is no slight to kobe/jordan, but both played in systems designed for them, and systems designed somewhat, at least, around them...magic plugged right in and played all positions...if i am starting an nba all history team right now, magic is my first pick, because i can put any piece around him, and he will fit. he truly had NO weakness in his game, and could actually, truly do it all...something kobe/jordan couldnt, based on size, etc.

kobeaki · Post #12 » by **kobeaki** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 4:43 pm

as to the kobe / jordan issue, which is apparently unavoidable, not just here, in casual basketball/sports conversation it always seems to come up....but ive always said this as an analogy to describe the difference between the two, some will get this reference some will not...

they are, in effect yin/yang...almost like (another 80's toy reference) like stormshadow and snake eyes...twins who have slightly better skills than the other but are basically only seperated by personality...

im sure there is some sort of greek/classical/biblical example as well, im just not trained enough to know...

Cqc_Nastyn8 · Post #13 » by **Cqc_Nastyn8** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 5:53 pm

i think we could have won that bulls series if worthy and scott weren't out towards the end of it

stunnar0b · Post #14 » by **stunnar0b** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 10:18 pm

kob8 (6 rings) > Magic (5 rings) fact
kob8 (7 rings) > Jordan (6 rings) fact

...and dont come back with russel

iamworthy · Post #15 » by **iamworthy** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 11:17 pm

bballcool34 wrote:
iamworthy wrote:Let me preface all this by saying Magic is my favorite player in the world. He's the GOAT to me. The only player than can dominate a game without scoring. One of the few players to win a chip at the high school level, college level, and NBA. But, Kobe has the all around game. Who is the better Basketball Player? When Magic was called the GOAT he earned that title going up against a Great...and I mean Great white man named Larry Bird. For Magic to get that title back in the 80's against at white male....with all due respect.....is huge. Bird made Magic great and Magic made Bird great.

Edit: took the MJ comment out because I want this to be about Magic and Kobe. Not MJ.

Magic was called the "GOAT" at times--but he never established himself as clearly better than Bird or took that title from him or anything--not sure if your suggesting this, but your post seems to imply it. People called Bird the "GOAT" as well during his epic 3 year run-- which I don't think Magic ever matched-but that's debateable. And Bird could dominate a game without scoring just like Magic.

The all-around game comment seems strange to me. I'm guessing your referring to Kobe's defense here--and I agree with it-but with all due to respect to Kobe, he has never matched the all around offensive versatility of someone like Magic---I mean "all around player" is Magic's thing really...

Kobe's not better than Magic IMO (who actually has a case for GOAT)--though it comes down to what style you prefer- I simply think Magic impacted games more. And I think part of what shows that is that you can argue for Magic over Jordan--because of that style difference--but you can't make a real argument for Kobe over Jordan.

bballcool34 wrote:Magic was called the "GOAT" at times--but he never established himself as clearly better than Bird or took that title from him or anything--not sure if your suggesting this, but your post seems to imply it. People called Bird the "GOAT" as well during his epic 3 year run-- which I don't think Magic ever matched-but that's debateable. And Bird could dominate a game without scoring just like Magic.

We can go back and forth on this. I could post how Magic can play every position in from 1-5 which he probably did at some point in time. I could say as a rookie he averaged almost a triple double in the playoffs. In his Rookie Finals had a stat line of 42 points, 15 rebounds, seven assists, three steals and 3 blocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hyo1ugJ0IU

bballcool34 wrote:The all-around game comment seems strange to me. I'm guessing your referring to Kobe's defense here--and I agree with it-but with all due to respect to Kobe, he has never matched the all around offensive versatility of someone like Magic---I mean "all around player" is Magic's thing really...

Kobe is a better defender and a better offensive player. But if you ask me who I would want to orchestrate the offense its Magic easy.

Magicontinues · Post #16 » by **Magicontinues** » Sat Jun 5, 2010 11:28 pm

Who cares, they are both great Lakers. Kareems in the conversation as well.

Mamba Venom · Post #17 » by **Mamba Venom** » Sun Jun 6, 2010 3:11 am

Its not fair to have this debate until after the Finals are over

bballcool34 · Post #18 » by **bballcool34** » Sun Jun 6, 2010 4:11 am

iamworthy wrote:
We can go back and forth on this. I could post how Magic can play every position in from 1-5 which he probably did at some point in time. I could say as a rookie he averaged almost a triple double in the playoffs. In his Rookie Finals had a stat line of 42 points, 15 rebounds, seven assists, three steals and 3 blocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hyo1ugJ0IU

We could definitely go back and forth--hell, people have been going back and forth for the last 25 years.

Kobe is a better defender and a better offensive player. But if you ask me who I would want to orchestrate the offense its Magic easy.

If Magic can orchestrate an offense better than I have to question whether Kobe is really a better offensive player. The best offensive player to me is the person who has the most impact on offense (not neccesarily scoring or moves or skills, but just impact)--and to me, that's Magic.

TommyTheCat · Post #19 » by **TommyTheCat** » Sun Jun 6, 2010 3:59 pm

lol, why the hell would you include GREAT white man. a white dude that says GREAT black man gets ish on after a comment like that. Bird was a GREAT player PERIOD

ok, i'll get off my soap box

as it stands...........magic>kobe but kobe looks like he's still got something to say about that

iamworthy · Post #20 » by **iamworthy** » Sun Jun 6, 2010 4:26 pm

Race is apart of life. No need to run from it. Me mentioning Bird as being a white man puts more emphasis on how good magic was. Have you seen the Magic Vs Bird documentary? They refer to race alot. Its just the way it was/is. Tony Dungy wasnt just another coach that won the super bowl...he was the first black coach to win the super bowl. I agree with what you in principal. The day that we stop having to identify race, the better we will all be.