RealGM

Got the idea after reading this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1084183&start=0


Basically, they looked up the TS% (true shooting %, which is "a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws") of players who have played with Melo, and compared those numbers for when they played without Melo. They saw that Melo makes just about everyone he plays with shoot better while they're playing with him.


However, changed a few things up for this thread.
- Instead of "Career performance of Lakers players with and without Kobe Bryant as a teammate", I went the route of "Performance of Lakers players before Kobe, and playing with Kobe". I did this mostly to make it easier on myself (annoying to have the Lakers days in the middle and have to calculate before and after and combine those). Because of this, I don't feature any guys who started their careers with the Lakers.
- I started with the 04-05 season, the "post-Shaq era".
- The Melo article restricted players to those who played 2000min with and without Melo. Here though, I just looked at names and chose rotation guys from 04-05 to the present, and left out guys who didn't play much here (DJ, Powell, Morrison...), and old farts during that time (Divac, Grant).
- Instead of looking at TS%, I used eFG%. Instead of measuring FG% by field goals made over field goals attempted, effective FG% adjusts for 3pters being worth more. I used this since TS% factors in FT% (which Kobe or Melo can't really help with), while eFG% measures just field goals (2s and 3s).

Here we go (players in order of when they joined the Lakers)...

Chucky Atkins
5 seasons before the Lakers - 48.5%
1 season with the Lakers - 52.3%
Best season - 01-02 Detroit, 55.3%
Best Lakers season - 04-05, 52.3%

Caron Butler
2 seasons before the Lakers - 41.6%
1 season with the Lakers - 46.4%
Best season - 04-05 Lakers, 46.4%

Chris Mihm
4 seasons before the Lakers - 44%
4 seasons with the Lakers - 48.6%
Best season - 04-05 Lakers, 50.7%

Lamar Odom
5 seasons before the Lakers - 47.1%
7 seasons with the Lakers - 52.3%
Best season - 10-11 Lakers, 59.5%

Smush Parker
2 seasons before the Lakers - 45.8%
2 seasons with the Lakers - 51.5%
Best season - 05-06 Lakers, 52.4%

Kwame Brown
4 seasons before the Lakers - 45.5%
3 seasons with the Lakers - 54.6%
Best season - 06-07 Lakers, 59.1%

Mo Evans
3 seasons before the Lakers - 49.5%
2 season with the Lakers - 46.9%
Best season - 05-06 Detroit, 51.5%
Best Lakers season - 06-07, 47.6%

Vlad Radmanovic
5 seasons before the Lakers - 50.6%
3 seasons with the Lakers - 54.2%
Best season - 08-09 Lakers, 58.4%

Trevor Ariza
3 seasons before the Lakers - 47.3%
2 seasons with the Lakers - 51.6%
Best season - 07-08 Lakers, 54.8%

Pau Gasol
6 seasons before the Lakers - 51%
4 seasons with the Lakers - 55%
Best season - 07-08 Lakers, 58.9%

Shannon Brown
2 seasons before the Lakers - 43.3%
3 seasons with the Lakers - 50.3%
Best season - 08-09 Lakers, 59.5%

Ron Artest
10 seasons before the Lakers - 46.5%
2 seasons with the Lakers - 48.2%
Best season - 04-05 Indiana, 52.5%
Best Lakers season - 09-10, 48.4%

Matt Barnes
7 seasons before the Lakers - 50.9%
1 season with the Lakers - 54%
Best season - 09-10 Orlando, 54.6%
Best Lakers season - 10-11, 54%

Steve Blake
7 seasons before the Lakers - 50.4%
1 season with the Lakers - 50.3%
Best season - 09-10 Clippers, 55.7%
Best Lakers season - 10-11, 50.3%

*Italics means they shot worse with the Lakers


So there you have it. Hope you understood wtf was going on. From what we can see here, just about every single player who joined the Lakers, shot better from the field here, with the exceptions of Mo Evans, and Steve Blake so far (Blake is right at his average though).

The Kobe Effect?


Comments/thoughts/questions please. Thank you.

He draws double teams and grants his teammates open shots, so nothing surprising i would say, but it's very impressive that it affects nearly every teammate

Great research. And based off that, its pretty safe to say his teammates benefit a lot more from him being on the floor than he does from them.

Kobe's shooting percentages stay just about the same across the board every year with or without a good quad. I find that really unimpressive and impressive at the same time. Just goes to show how much offense he creates for himself and how much the players around him depend on the attention he draws on the floor.

Ya just imagine what would happen if he actually passed the ball.

Kobe has been a ball hog all his career. He shoots way to much. If other players were better shooters than Kobe would not have to jack up the ball 25 times and hit 12. Pass Kobe Pass.

Isn't that what he's supposed to do? The team also benefited with the Triangle even though they ran it far less than they have in prior years.

laduane1 wrote: If other players were better shooters than Kobe would not have to jack up the ball 25 times and hit 12.

You're right its not like he has 2 of the top 5 Big men in the league on his team or anything.

I think they have shot better due to the Triangle offense. The same stat's can be applied if you say how players did with Phil Jackson. Check the stat's when players played for another team vs when they played for Phil Jackson..

Oh yea about it being due to the triangle, I agree that it does play a big role of course, but from this Kobe has really been the only constant. We didn't have Phil or the triangle in 04-05. Chucky Atkins, Caron and Mihm all had their (at the time) career highs in eFG% that year, and Lamar basically tied his previous career high. So yea, that year was basically just them playing with Kobe, and no triangle.

Clippers showed the lakers age today. Lakers can not cover the 3 pointers.

Imadogg wrote:Oh yea about it being due to the triangle, I agree that it does play a big role of course, but from this Kobe has really been the only constant. We didn't have Phil or the triangle in 04-05. Chucky Atkins, Caron and Mihm all had their (at the time) career highs in eFG% that year, and Lamar basically tied his previous career high. So yea, that year was basically just them playing with Kobe, and no triangle.

If you remember Rudy Tomjanovich left in the beginning of the season and then we had interim coach Frank Hamblen. Frank Hamblen re-estated the triangle offense as the season began to slip away. This was among the rumors that Phil Jackson was going to return to the Lakers. So the point Phil/Triangle is still a big part of their Success. Take Smush, Slava, Mihm, Cook, Kwame, and others. They leave Phils system and where are they now. This is the same group of guys Phil took to one game of upseting the Phoenix suns. You can also go down the list of ex Chicago bulls era. Check their numbers and you will see the same result.

Frank Hamblen

large1974 wrote:

Imadogg wrote:Oh yea about it being due to the triangle, I agree that it does play a big role of course, but from this Kobe has really been the only constant. We didn't have Phil or the triangle in 04-05. Chucky Atkins, Caron and Mihm all had their (at the time) career highs in eFG% that year, and Lamar basically tied his previous career high. So yea, that year was basically just them playing with Kobe, and no triangle.

If you remember Rudy Tomjanovich left in the beginning of the season and then we had interim coach Frank Hamblen. Frank Hamblen re-estated the triangle offense as the season began to slip away. This was among the rumors that Phil Jackson was going to return to the Lakers. So the point Phil/Triangle is still a big part of their Success. Take Smush, Slava, Mihm, Cook, Kwame, and others. They leave Phils system and where are they now. This is the same group of guys Phil took to one game of upseting the Phoenix suns. You can also go down the list of ex Chicago bulls era. Check their numbers and you will see the same result.

Frank Hamblen

Well I don't know a simple way to check stats from segments of each season without calculating from each game myself, but I can check how many games certain guys shot over a particular FG% (not eFG% though).

Rudy was here the first 43 games of the season (won 55.8% of our games), while Frank finished off the last 39 games (25.6%).

Here is how often these players shot at least 50% (very efficient) from the floor

With Rudy:
Chris Mihm - 59.5%
Chucky Atkins - 39.5%
Caron Butler - 33%
Lamar Odom - 48.8%

With Frank (Triangle):
Mihm - 60.6%
Atkins - 28.5%
Caron - 37.1%
Lamar - 38.1%

Caron Butler shot at least 50% from the floor 4% more often with the triangle. Chucky and Lamar shot that well around 10% more often with Rudy, while Mihm stayed consistent.


But Kobe missed a month somewhere in there, so let's just check that season, with Kobe and without. Again, how often each guy shot at least 50%.

With Kobe:
Mihm - 60%
Atkins - 31.3%
Caron - 38.7%
Lamar - 53.1%

Without Kobe:
Mihm - 60%
Atkins - 46.7%
Caron - 20%
Lamar - 20%

Mihm stayed consistent once again. Lamar Odom and Caron Butler had more efficient games playing next to Kobe much more often than not. Chucky Atkins though, shows the opposite effect, and had more 50+% games without Kobe.


I know the way I did it isn't the best way of course, it's just that I didn't know a better way and looking at it from every angle would take a lot more effort. If you guys have any ideas of how to look at it, I can try. It's already a small sample size so make from this what you will.

Either way there's not a large sample size to work with to say anything about how Kobe's teammates does without the Triangle. Our offense has also struggled this year and the last, so it's not as if Kobe is a reliable influence on his teammate's efficiency.

it's no coincidence that people shoot higher with kobe. he attracts alot of attention and does a good job of getting guys quality looks.

lol just check out our roster back in 05...most of those players are not in the league anymore.

I find these claims absurd. It probably has to do more with the Triangle and Phil Jackson than Kobe. Kobe doesn't dish out crazy passes like Rondo or anything. Phil Jackson offense is about swinging the ball and making the extra pass. A lot of people see touches . It gets you in a rhythm on offense, so your personal offense just flows better than say if you were standing around waiting for shots.

you make a post like that and then call other posts absurd?