RealGM

http://imadogg.tumblr.com/post/49556738 ... -type-post

A constant question asked of all the great NBA players, no matter how much they seem to score or win, is... "But does he make his teammates better?"

NBA.com recently released its "StatsCube" which I find amazing. It opens up so many doors in the world of stats. Since I'm a Lakers fan and all obviously, and Kobe is our star/elite/HoFer/legend/leader, I decided to look up if Kobe Bryant makes his teammates better, or worse, in one particular way.

The StatsCube shows stats from the 2010-11 season, per 36 minutes. It doesn't show PER and I honestly have no clue how to calculate it (looking at the formula just scrambles my brain), so I avoided that. I did not look at rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, turnovers, or any of that (mostly because I didn't want to). What I did look up though (something that is definitely relevant to how Kobe affects the team), is each of the Lakers' FG%, and their "points per points possible" with Kobe on and off the court (per 36 minutes). I'll clear this up in a second.

I looked at the stats for 9 Lakers players from the regular season... sorted by mpg they are: Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Derek Fisher, Andrew Bynum, Steve Blake, Matt Barnes, Shannon Brown, and Luke Walton. All of these guys played a minimum of 50 games this season.

I figured simply looking at something like points would not show much, as some players (Bynum for example) will score a lot more without Kobe getting FGA next to him. What matters though is if he's shooting a great percentage either way, and if he's making the most of the chances he gets. This is where "points possible" comes in. It's a very simple stat with a very simple formula (Hell, someone probably made/uses this with a better name but this is how I'm doing it). Points Possible = FTA + (2pt FGA * 2) + (3pt FGA * 3). Basically, if a player was to make every single shot he took, he would get that many points, hence "points possible", or pp. It does not require knowing how many shots were actually made.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets get to the results. What do we find? Does Kobe help everyone? Does he hurt the team? Here we are, sorted by who benefits the most by playing alongside Kobe Bryant (net pt/pp), to the player who is most thrown off by playing with Kobe. Some of these results may surprise you.

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Greatly helped by Kobe's presence:

1. Ron Artest

FG% with/without Kobe - 41%/28% (Net: +13%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 15.53/10.80 (Net: +4.73)

2. Shannon Brown

FG% with/without Kobe - 52%/40% (Net: +12%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 18.80/15.30 (Net: +3.51)

3. Steve Blake

FG% with/without Kobe - 43%/34% (Net: +9%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 16.21/12.86 (Net: +3.35)

4. Pau Gasol

FG% with/without Kobe - 55%/48% (Net: +7%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 21.32/19.05 (Net: +2.27)

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Play consistent with or without Kobe (within 1pt/pp):

5. Andrew Bynum

FG% with/without Kobe - 57%/58% (Net: -1%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 21.32/21.43 (Net: -0.11)

6. Lamar Odom

FG% with/without Kobe - 54%/52% (Net: +2%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 19.14/19.31 (Net: -0.17)

7. Luke Walton

FG% with/without Kobe - 33%/33% (Net: 0%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 11.11/11.94 (Net: -0.83)

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Hindered playing next to Kobe:

8. Matt Barnes

FG% with/without Kobe - 37%/50% (Net: -13%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 13.83/18.50 (Net: -4.66)

9. Derek Fisher

FG% with/without Kobe - 38%/57% (Net: -19%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 14.99/22.56 (Net: -7.57)


I don't know about you... but that last one surprised me. Here's a graph for TL;DR. Just shows the net change in Points per Point Possible with Kobe on/off the court (view entire image).



Hope this was insightful. Discussion welcomed, as well as comments/criticism since I'm not a stathead and I **** up a lot, just curious about a lot of things.

Smush Parker/thread

I've looked up stuff like that but this statscube is a mindfck. Wish it went back further though

Lamar makes sense because he is the only one outside of Kobe really that creates his own shot and slides into whatever option he needs to be from 1-3. Drew also is a main post option who creates his shot off his post moves, but he surprises me a little in that I thought he would get more benefit from offensive rebounds and passes from Kobe.

Fisher is the real enigma here.

Derek Fisher:

FG% with/without Kobe - 38%/57% (Net: -19%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 14.99/22.56 (Net: -7.57)

Nuff said. RETIRE FISHER! Thank you for your service but you suck with and without Kobe.

supaflash wrote:Lamar makes sense because he is the only one outside of Kobe really that creates his own shot and slides into whatever option he needs to be from 1-3. Drew also is a main post option who creates his shot off his post moves, but he surprises me a little in that I thought he would get more benefit from offensive rebounds and passes from Kobe.

Fisher is the real enigma here.

Before I got my results, I figured Artest and Brown would be greatly helped by Kobe, and I was right. You can tell easily with Ron. And Brown... when Kobe is off the court he tries to be Shannon Bryant and shoots up twice as many shots, with worse looks.

Fisher though.. wow that's a big difference. He shoot's a beastly 57% without Kobe on the floor....

FisherSucks wrote:Derek Fisher:

FG% with/without Kobe - 38%/57% (Net: -19%)

Pt/pp with/without Kobe - 14.99/22.56 (Net: -7.57)

Nuff said. RETIRE FISHER! Thank you for your service but you suck with and without Kobe.

Dude, I admire your conviction on this. To have your nick be defined by how adamant you are on the subject can't be beat. I am convinced Fisher is not worthy of a starting gig and despots some big shots he's made over the years he hurts the team much more than he helps it.

If he was man enough to admit this and retire (become an assistant) I would respect him. I don't think I can stomach 2 more years watching him get destroyed on defense, going 2-9 and not being able to make simple entry passes to our bigs.

For now, here is hoping he doesn't shoot much, not turn it over and at least stay within 5 feet of his man.

i think fisher shoots at a higher % when kobe's on the bench for a few reasons. when kobe's on the bench, it usually means the other teams best players are on the bench as well. thus fisher's defensive assignment becomes much easier, allowing him to exert more energy on offense, rather than running through screens. plus the ball movement generally increases when kobe's on the bench, mostly because the only offense our team can run without kobe is the triangle. fisher is just a better offensive player within the flow of the triangle, he doesnt do great playing off of kobes iso's, and he isnt a knockdown shooter off of kobe's drive n' kicks and PnRs. it also seems like we play at a slightly faster tempo with the bench mob, and when fisher is in with them, he generally gets more open looks in transition.

just a basic observation.

Imadogg wrote:

supaflash wrote:Lamar makes sense because he is the only one outside of Kobe really that creates his own shot and slides into whatever option he needs to be from 1-3. Drew also is a main post option who creates his shot off his post moves, but he surprises me a little in that I thought he would get more benefit from offensive rebounds and passes from Kobe.

Fisher is the real enigma here.

Before I got my results, I figured Artest and Brown would be greatly helped by Kobe, and I was right. You can tell easily with Ron. And Brown... when Kobe is off the court he tries to be Shannon Bryant and shoots up twice as many shots, with worse looks.

Fisher though.. wow that's a big difference. He shoot's a beastly 57% without Kobe on the floor....

If I am not mistaken, which I usually am.

BasketballValue.com should have those stats and it goes back maybe 2-3 years? Don't know, but check it OUT!

EDIT: Just looked, it only shows offensive and defensive ratings...not % or PPG. But offensive rating includes EVERYTHING, steals, rebounds, blocks, shooting percentage, so I think that would be a better gauge than just shooting percentage and PP36 when Kobe is on/off the court.

i think with barnes its much easier to explain. offensively with kobe on the floor, hes going to be asked to spread the floor, hit the glass, and not much else. he's really not a good spot up shooter so its not suprising his fg% is down with kobe.

with the bench mob, he gets out in transition, and gets much easier baskets. plus, like fisher, he is much better in the flow of the trianlge, cutting and getting easy hoops, rather than playing off of kobe.

Base wrote:If I am not mistaken, which I usually am.

BasketballValue.com should have those stats and it goes back maybe 2-3 years? Don't know, but check it OUT!

EDIT: Just looked, it only shows offensive and defensive ratings...not % or PPG. But offensive rating includes EVERYTHING, steals, rebounds, blocks, shooting percentage, so I think that would be a better gauge than just shooting percentage and PP36 when Kobe is on/off the court.

Bball value shows stats/ratings of a player with another player on/off the court? Link? I figure much of the stuff I look up is redundant cuz I don't really know where to look.

Imadogg wrote:

Base wrote:If I am not mistaken, which I usually am.

BasketballValue.com should have those stats and it goes back maybe 2-3 years? Don't know, but check it OUT!

EDIT: Just looked, it only shows offensive and defensive ratings...not % or PPG. But offensive rating includes EVERYTHING, steals, rebounds, blocks, shooting percentage, so I think that would be a better gauge than just shooting percentage and PP36 when Kobe is on/off the court.

Bball value shows stats/ratings of a player with another player on/off the court? Link? I figure much of the stuff I look up is redundant cuz I don't really know where to look.

They show all the lineups that one player has played with.
They don't divide the stats up (the way you're looking for), you need to figure it out on your own by looking at all the lineups.

OT: Kobe is angry right now in the game. lol. Okafor just got posterized. AIM me and I can explain.

It's important to note sample size though. Fisher's played 84 minutes (the equivalent of about two games) without Kobe, and 2,212 minutes with Kobe. Can't really take much away from that.

Artest doesn't have many minutes without Kobe on the floor either