RealGM

Wow.

I know this is something I obviously should have known, but i'm in such stark disbelief at this fact that....I don't even have words. How? How does something like this happen? It says so much about the players association and the natural disadvantage they came into this whole ordeal from, not to mention what it says about the team that is willing to give that title to someone who has the intellect of Lenny from Mice and Men.

It makes me think that the CBA and the NBA owners are not something the current players took seriously until now, when the seriousness of the situation has become very apparent and has began to affect all of them. The last CBA was very advantageous to the players. Overly so. Because of this, the players we are with now have come into a relatively one-sided league with players making too much money no matter what and owners losing money, sometimes no matter what.

Arrogance, youthful naivety, immaturity, and plain simpleness have made them believe they are entitled to what they have been getting, and its very possible this has produced a laissez-faire attitude that results in union rep selections like Shannon Brown because on some level they believe collective bargaining and negotiation was a mere formality, a small inconvenience during which time they would get to put on fancy suits (or backpacks and sweats, for the more professional guys) and hang in New York for a few days.

And as "**** got real", things are very unbalanced because on the owners side, you have the guys with the requisite education and training negotiating for themselves. Whereas on the players side, the ones with the right qualifications are actually the agents....but the agents have their own interests in mind that do no align with the players. One side is willing and capable of understanding all aspects of the proposed deals. One is not, and they need outside assistance that is inherently biased to interpret it for them. That is not a good way to enter negotiations.

The "cabinet" of the union reps (Fisher, Etan Thomas, Mo Evans) are all articulate, nice guys for the most part. With absolutely no business or law training whatsoever. They are all fine choices to speak at rookie seminars about life as an NBA player and how to have "class", as Derek likes to reference so much. They are not qualified to negotiate multi-billion dollar deals with lawyers and business moguls who made their billions completely independent of basketball. The empty, substance-less statements they make during press conferences and in ill-thought out espn blogs is a dreary reminder of this.

.......

SHANNON BROWN??? REALLY??

Sorry. That just really resonated to me.

Why do we need a player rep when the union president already plays for us?

Also when we have a whole bunch of smart vets like Kobe who seems to be keeping himself involved, LO and Pau they couldn't find someone more smarter than an out of contract Shannon Brown?

Who were the brilliant union reps that negotiated the previous CBA?

TyCobb wrote:Who were the brilliant union reps that negotiated the previous CBA?

Thats a good point. But as we've seen in the past few weeks, history will not necessarily repeat itself and people who are smart will usually not allow people who are not that smart to **** them.

The last CBA resulting in positive results for the players doesn't mean anyone should be content to put morons at the bargaining table.

Additionally, i'm not suggesting that there are any players equally qualified with the owners' side. In fact, it is a big point of interest (and concern) with the system itself that equal negotiation acumen on both sides of the table is essentially impossible to achieve without the players having 3rd party representation through lawyers and agents who have neither the owners nor the players best interest in the forefront of their minds.

i don't know if you guys realize that the 1998 lockout and the subsequent cba was viewed as a HUGE win for david stern and the owners...not the players. back then, stern eventually got the players to accept the soft cap, rookie wage scales, and be the only league with maximum salaries.....big concessions that were to supposedly limit player wages and increase team revenue. he also made it possible for teams to hold on to their draft choices for five years (two years longer than under the past cba) and other restrictive player movement measures like matching salaries in trades. the players fought tooth and nail against these changes but were worn down by league. the new cba was supposed to make the franchises profitable and competitive. hmmmm....i wonder where i've heard this before.

imo, the fault of the financial losses falls mainly on the owners shoulders due to bad management. sure, the economy has tanked and i believe the players should make concessions to ensure the financial health of the league....much like what many americans have done at their jobs. (hell....i had to take a big paycut at my job in order to keep it). but even after seemingly "reaming" the players in 1998 and getting a very "owner friendly cba", they still gave out bad contracts, kept putting franchises in small markets, made bad trades and bad business decisions that resulted in many owners losing money. and they are asking the players to cover up their mistakes again...to save them from themselves.

im not exactly pro player, but i really have a hard time sympathizing with the owners considering ive heard this all before and will probably hear it again in 2021.

picc wrote:Wow.

I know this is something I obviously should have known, but i'm in such stark disbelief at this fact that....I don't even have words. How? How does something like this happen? It says so much about the players association and the natural disadvantage they came into this whole ordeal from, not to mention what it says about the team that is willing to give that title to someone who has the intellect of Lenny from Mice and Men.

It makes me think that the CBA and the NBA owners are not something the current players took seriously until now, when the seriousness of the situation has become very apparent and has began to affect all of them. The last CBA was very advantageous to the players. Overly so. Because of this, the players we are with now have come into a relatively one-sided league with players making too much money no matter what and owners losing money, sometimes no matter what.

Arrogance, youthful naivety, immaturity, and plain simpleness have made them believe they are entitled to what they have been getting, and its very possible this has produced a laissez-faire attitude that results in union rep selections like Shannon Brown because on some level they believe collective bargaining and negotiation was a mere formality, a small inconvenience during which time they would get to put on fancy suits (or backpacks and sweats, for the more professional guys) and hang in New York for a few days.

And as "**** got real", things are very unbalanced because on the owners side, you have the guys with the requisite education and training negotiating for themselves. Whereas on the players side, the ones with the right qualifications are actually the agents....but the agents have their own interests in mind that do no align with the players. One side is willing and capable of understanding all aspects of the proposed deals. One is not, and they need outside assistance that is inherently biased to interpret it for them. That is not a good way to enter negotiations.

The "cabinet" of the union reps (Fisher, Etan Thomas, Mo Evans) are all articulate, nice guys for the most part. With absolutely no business or law training whatsoever. They are all fine choices to speak at rookie seminars about life as an NBA player and how to have "class", as Derek likes to reference so much. They are not qualified to negotiate multi-billion dollar deals with lawyers and business moguls who made their billions completely independent of basketball. The empty, substance-less statements they make during press conferences and in ill-thought out espn blogs is a dreary reminder of this.

.......

SHANNON BROWN??? REALLY??

Sorry. That just really resonated to me.

Didn't read everything but team reps don't necessarily mean that they negotiate. Most, if not all of them are only messengers to their own team of players.

The real negotiators are Derek Fisher, Billy Hunter, their lawyers and economists.

SlavaMedvedenko wrote:Why do we need a player rep when the union president already plays for us?

Also when we have a whole bunch of smart vets like Kobe who seems to be keeping himself involved, LO and Pau they couldn't find someone more smarter than an out of contract Shannon Brown?

Shannon Brown is just another person to filter information to the Laker players. He'll probably just tell them to call Derek Fisher anyway. Being a player rep for the union isn't the most glamorous position and left as a punishment, but you get to go on free trips which is better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I hear this player rep position isn't something players really want to be, just something the unlucky one get at least that how Mason/Ireland make it sound like.