We Need Ramon Sessions Now - Amazing Statistics

[VIPER8382]

I posted this in defense of Sessions in a Trade Thread, but I just had to share it here. I knew Sessions had produced when given the minutes, but he has been even better than I thought.


In 9 games this season where Sessions has played at least 28 minutes in the game he has averaged 33 mpg, 12.2 ppg, and 8.2 apg.

In 34 games last season where Sessions played at least 28 minutes in the game he averaged 34 mpg, 18.5 ppg, and 6.9 apg.

In 6 games in 09-10 where Sessions played at least 28 minutes in the game he averaged 31.2 mpg, 15.3 ppg, and 4.2 apg (but this should almost be ignored as it was in Minny with the triangle offense).

In 43 games in 08-09 where Sessions played at least 28 minutes in the game he averaged 35.3 mpg, 16.8 ppg, and 7.5 apg.

In 9 games as a rookie in 07-08 where Sessions played at least 28 minutes in the game he averaged 40.3 mpg, 11.9 ppg, and 11.7 apg (this included his incredible 20 point 24 assist effort in 44 minutes, imagine how much hype Jeremy Lin would have gotten if he had put up a game like that).

In 101 career games where Sessions has played at least 28 minutes in the game he has averaged 34.8 mpg, 16.5 ppg, and 7.5 apg.

Hopefully that is a large enough sample size to prove that Sessions can flat out play. The question becomes, why are there only 101 times where Sessions has gotten 28+ mpg? Let's examine that. During his rookie year he didn't even play until the last month of the season, so that explains that season. The next year he got a lot of those games even though he was in a crowded backcourt that included Mo Williams and Michael Redd. During his 3rd season Sessions was in by far his worst situation. He and his agent made a horiffic mistake by signing in Minnesota who was in their first year running the triangle offense, which with his complete lack of a 3 point game at the time was an absolutely horrible fit. Last year he got a lot of minutes, but wasn't able to really do so until Mo Williams was traded, and even then he still had to contend with Baron Davis. This season he is obviously stuck behind Kyrie Irving. I would say that it is mostly due to being a young PG stuck in less than optimal situations to become a star, but when he has been given the minutes he has put up top 10 in the league PG numbers, and that can't be argued.

One would assume that if Sessions were starting on a top team in the league that his scoring would drop, while his assists would go up. I would project that Sessions would average 13-15 ppg and 8-10 apg in LA. That wouldn't make him a superstar by any means, but if he put up those numbers (which I think anyone would have trouble arguing that they are unrealistic) for the Lakers he would certainly be a star, and certainly make the Lakers a much better team.

[jg77]

He put those numbers up because he was playing for 2nd worst team in the league last year. Only thing Sessions could add for us, is some defense. Even now Cleveland is a bad team and they won't even start him at SG. We need a facilitator and great defender. A lot of players could put out better production of Session's stats on a losing team (and I'm not talking all-stars either). I don't understand the hype for him, but I guess anything is better than Fisher/Blake.

[Doormatt]

i dont really find PPG/APG to be meaningful measures of how good someone is, so no, i dont really get where youre going. because he played more minutes his raw numbers went up? sure.

[Jetset]

He put those numbers up because he was playing for 2nd worst team in the league last year. Only thing Sessions could add for us, is some defense. Even now Cleveland is a bad team and they won't even start him at SG. We need a facilitator and great defender. A lot of players could put out twice the production of Session's stats on a losing team (and I'm not talking all-stars either). I don't understand the hype for him, but I guess anything is better than Fisher/Blake.

i dont really find PPG/APG to be meaningful measures of how good someone is, so no, i dont really get where youre going. because he played more minutes his raw numbers went up? sure.

Get em.

[One Love]

Decent numbers but I think 12 & 8 is a stretch on the Lakers... I would take him over Fish & Blake as he has a reasonable contract but prefer Felton...

[VIPER8382]

He put those numbers up because he was playing for 2nd worst team in the league last year. Only thing Sessions could add for us, is some defense. Even now Cleveland is a bad team and they won't even start him at SG. We need a facilitator and great defender. A lot of players could put out twice the production of Session's stats on a losing team (and I'm not talking all-stars either). I don't understand the hype for him, but I guess anything is better than Fisher/Blake.

I never said Sessions would be an All Star, he would just be a star, and only because he would be doing it in LA. If he put up the same #'s in New Orleans he wouldn't be a star, but he would still be right around the 12-15th best PG in the league. That "career" average of 7.5 assists is pretty high (there are only 10 players in the league averaging at least that many this season), and I would say it is even more impressive considering it was largely done without a ton of talented scorers around him. Granted with the Lakers he wouldn't get 16.5 ppg, but If I had to guess he would put up 13 ppg and 8.5 apg as a Laker, and I think that we would all take that in a heartbeat, and should be excited to get it for only a late 1st.

Funny thing is that twice what Sessions has produced in those selected games would be 33 and 15, that is flat out amazing, and I say that we get one of those non All Stars then

[Gek]

Twice what he produced would take him at least 60 minutes...

[jg77]

He put those numbers up because he was playing for 2nd worst team in the league last year. Only thing Sessions could add for us, is some defense. Even now Cleveland is a bad team and they won't even start him at SG. We need a facilitator and great defender. A lot of players could put out twice the production of Session's stats on a losing team (and I'm not talking all-stars either). I don't understand the hype for him, but I guess anything is better than Fisher/Blake.

I never said Sessions would be an All Star, he would just be a star, and only because he would be doing it in LA. If he put up the same #'s in New Orleans he wouldn't be a star, but he would still be right around the 12-15th best PG in the league. That "career" average of 7.5 assists is pretty high (there are only 10 players in the league averaging at least that many this season), and I would say it is even more impressive considering it was largely done without a ton of talented scorers around him. Granted with the Lakers he wouldn't get 16.5 ppg, but If I had to guess he would put up 13 ppg and 8.5 apg as a Laker, and I think that we would all take that in a heartbeat, and should be excited to get it for only a late 1st.

Funny thing is that twice what Sessions has produced in those selected games would be 33 and 15, that is flat out amazing, and I say that we get one of those non All Stars then

I never said you said he was an all-star. And you're missing the most important point, he plays for Cleveland. I'll admit he had an impressive stretch at the end of last season, but just take a look at some of the opponents, Washington twice, Milwaukee, Detroit, and Toronto. Granted, I'll give you the fact that he is better than Fisher/Blake, but if he's taking the backseat to Daniel Gibson in Cleveland, he has no business here. We don't need another scrub, our roster has plenty of those. And I would bring up the competition he played during those 101 games, before coming to a conclusion. I don't have anything against Sessions, but if we can actually get Rondo, I'd rather do that.

[ChampagnePapa]

The primary issues with the PG position is defense, generating more offense through pick and roll and penetration and their struggles shooting. Sessions helps with some of that but isn't the best jump shooter and won't see the assist opps he has seen the last few years with Milw, Minn and Cle because of the nature of Kobe and throwing it in to the bigs for post up doesn't get you an assist if they make some moves down there. The numbers aren't as important as the total production added to the team. Sessions helps, but he's not that good. The word "amazing" shouldn't be in the title. He's a solid PG of starting quality with a strong starting lineup (like LA) or a backup PG to a deep team (if say he went back to MN or philly). If Drew and Pau are staying, adding Sessions and a SF (say Beasley for the rumors) or a backup scoring guard (Barbosa since the rumors have them moving him) might be the best they can do and still presents a definite contender to come out of the West.

[VIPER8382]

I would rather have Rondo also, but I would rather have Sessions and Gasol with 1 1st instead of Rondo and O'Neal with 2 1sts.

Also keep in mind that we are looking for a PG here. Sessions is big enough, and strong enough to play SG, but he is not that effective as a SG (he has always put up much better overall #'s when playing PG), so I really am not that concerned that the Cavs aren't starting him at SG.

There are probably 12 or so PG's that I would take over Sessions, but because he can probably be acquired for McRoberts, Morris and a 1st I think he is the PG I would most like to acquire. That deal allows us to trade 0 raotational players, not touch the TPE, only use 1 first, and even add less than $1 million to our costs this year. To make my point even further, which team do you think is better, the one with the Sessions deal, or a roster with Deron Williams?

Sessions / Blake
Bryant / Goudelock
MWP / Barnes
Gasol / Murphy
Bynum / Gasol

or

Williams / Blake
Bryant / Goudelock
MWP / Barnes
Murphy / McRoberts
Gasol / Murphy

I will take the group with Sessions and Bynum over Deron Williams (and I don';t think we could even get Williams) and we even still have our TPE and a 1st to address the SF position, while a deal for Williams would certainly cost both of our firsts. If we did the Williams version we would have easily the worst forward rotation in the league, and no assets left to improve. That doesn't seem like a winning formula to me.

I just think that considering the cost in talent, chemistry, and money leaves us with Sessions as the best way to address our gaping hole at PG.

[VIPER8382]

The primary issues with the PG position is defense, generating more offense through pick and roll and penetration and their struggles shooting. Sessions helps with some of that but isn't the best jump shooter and won't see the assist opps he has seen the last few years with Milw, Minn and Cle because of the nature of Kobe and throwing it in to the bigs for post up doesn't get you an assist if they make some moves down there. The numbers aren't as important as the total production added to the team. Sessions helps, but he's not that good. The word "amazing" shouldn't be in the title. He's a solid PG of starting quality with a strong starting lineup (like LA) or a backup PG to a deep team (if say he went back to MN or philly). If Drew and Pau are staying, adding Sessions and a SF (say Beasley for the rumors) or a backup scoring guard (Barbosa since the rumors have them moving him) might be the best they can do and still presents a definite contender to come out of the West.

Great post. I know the sample size is small, but Sessions is shooting 42% on 3's this year, and has also been hitting a lot more deep 2's. It may be a fluke, or he improved his jump shot in the off season, we will have to wait and see. The amazing in the title is becasue there is a 25 year old PG who only makes $4.3 million available for just a low first who has averaged 16.5 ppg and 7.5 apg in 101 career games where he has gotten at least 28 minutes of playing time. This stat to me is a lot different than per minute stats because you are using all games where the player got a full work load.

[hermes]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg&ob=av2e[/youtube]

and basing personnel decisions on statistics? what is this moneyball? mitch isn't jonah hill


might be brad pitt though but that's another story.......

[VIPER8382]

I'm not basing it just on stats. I live in Columbus, Ohio, and the Cavs are my 2nd favorite team. I have seen Sessions play a lot, and I really like what I have seen on both ends of the court from him. Me just saying that really isn't much of an argument though. For that reason I am using stats to back up what I have already seen on the court.

Just for fun, here are some more stats.

In 156 games where he has logged at least 28 minutes played in his career Kyle Lowry has averaged 35 mpg 14.2 ppg and 6.4 apg.

In 325 games where he has logged at least 28 minutes played in his career Rajon Rondo has averaged 35.5 mpg 12.3 ppg and 8.9 apg.

[Gek]

I don't mean to doubt on the kid, but usually there is a reason nba players are where they are in terms of rotations and teams. Coming off the bench in Cleveland means he's playing with four guys that no one in the NBA would honestly miss (maybe Tristan Thompson), that means he can do whatever the hell he wants and no one would honestly care, so, being a basketball player, he opts to score. Yes you could say, OH LOOK HE'S CARRYING THOSE KIDS! Honestly though, those guys may suck as NBA players, but they're still great basketball players and could score just as much if they shot the ball every other time down the court. The other stats just show elevated numbers because the time is elevated. I also doubt he'd have the respect of Kobe or Pau ever in his tenure in LA. I see him taking a huge stats cut on the Lakers and being in the West where he gets beat up by big, great guards every night.

That being said, still >>> fisher

[DrewBynum77]

He's not great, I do not expect him to be great here and the lakers don't need him to be great in order to contend. He just need to be good and he can be good.

He's young, athletically, big, strong, can shoot, can stay in front of his man(in fact, he's playing 'major' minutes playing alongside with #1 Pick and ROY simply because of his D and he can also dish.

If cavs accept a 1st round pick for him we should take him. I don't know why anyone wouldn't other than waiting D12 / magic's decision before using our picks...

I would also take felton but with a 2nd round pick.

[Edrees]

I think he's enough of an improvement over what we have now to make the difference between an early playoff exit and winning the title. He's not the best pg ever, but he's a solid starter worthy pg who will get tremendously improve our offense (and defense at the pg position)

[H00PDREAMS]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHg&ob=av2e[/youtube]

and basing personnel decisions on statistics? what is this moneyball? mitch isn't jonah hill


might be brad pitt though but that's another story.......

OT. Great Song! I don't even like country... But I love this tune.

[richboy]

Only way he gets those assist numbers is if Kobe lets him run the offense some. You could actually see his assist drop and his scoring go up.

[Asianiac_24]

I've always liked his game and thinks he is one of the most underrated player in this league. I really do hope we can acquire him

[Jajwanda]

Ask Cleveland for cash in a deal, send our first+TPE for Sessions. Gilbert has never been shy about spending to get a pick and suitors willing to give a first for Sessions are dwindling.