Lakers "notoriously behind the curve" in bball analytics

[Imadogg]

For example, the Los Angeles Lakers bristled at the Denver Nuggets' use of a laptop on the sidelines during their playoff series last month and are "notoriously behind the curve" when it comes to basketball analytics, Goldsberry says.

"The Lakers shouldn't get upset, they should get laptops," he says.

Goldsberry points to Game 4 of the Western Conference semifinals between the Lakers and Thunder, when Durant calmly dribbled to the top of the key in the closing seconds of a tied game and drained a game-winner in front of Metta World Peace for a 3-1 series lead.

"Everybody knows that Kevin Durant is a great three-point shooter, but few know he's the best in the NBA from that exact spot," Goldsberry says. "A lot of teams don't know that, but some teams certainly do."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketba ... 55533006/1

Of course this can't really be argued.. we hear about certain teams (I always hear about the Rockets) who are really invested in advanced metrics and bball analytics.. when the hell are we going to embrace the added data we have now and will have more of in the future? Some of you might say "Lakers win more than everyone else" and "Lakers are traditional"... but limiting ourselves due to those points makes little to no sense.

Thoughts?

[RocketPower23]

How does Goldsberry know the Lakers are behind the curve? IIRC, the Lakers were upset the Nuggets used it during the game (they may thought it was against the rules). The Durant mention is silly; he was isolated on the top of the key, there was nothing the Lakers could do outside of maybe Ron contesting that shot a bit better. I pretty Mike Brown has mentioned advance stats before (Jim Buss too?) and I find it hard to believe that the Lakers aren't versed in it.

[Sedale Threatt]

We don't need computers. We have the steel-trap minds of Jim Buss and Mike Brown.

[dockingsched]

i don't buy it simply because jim buss is always talking about advanced stats.

even so, using the example of being upset over the laptop and allowing durant to hit a 3 is certainly not enough for me to be convinced about such claims.

the article makes it seem like the lakers were upset the nuggets were using advanced stats, as if that was the issue...and thats just ridiculous to imply. the issue was the use of the laptop and the potential to use current in-game data, which is against the rules.

the durant thing, i mean, c'mon now.

[salmahayek]

I think all competitive avenues, both advantageous and disadvantages should be evaluated and exhausted by the Lakers, but I can't say they are or are not "behind the times."

I was concerned about our layoffs last summer and hope our scouting department, inclusive of pro, college, and foreign scouts is back up to snuff or even improved, but I can't say I "know" either way on that either.

I think Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak to be pretty progressive, so if we are not at the top, I'm sure we're not too far behind, if at all.

We're probably much more progressive in some aspects with Mike Brown and his staff taking over for Phil Jackson's. Not better, but more progressive in certain aspects of evaluating and coaching the game. Everyone has pointed out how hard a worker Brown is, so hopefully some good results will follow the hard work and progressiveness.

[NBAontwitter]

F U THESE STATS PIECE OF CRAP FOOLS trying to push their agenda. The lakers just won back 2 back titles in 2010.

No one has done that since the lakers in 02.


Lakers lost players off the bench like Odom, Farmar Brown, Sasha and such , and became weak off the bench. PERIOD

[milesfides]

-Lakers winning 2 championships in 2010 mean little right now. Different people in charge, different coach, different players.

-The fact that Mike Brown is a "hard-worker" doesn't mean that he's a "good coach." If Mike Brown is up late at night watching tape, that doesn't mean he utilizes cutting-edge analytics. In fact, I highly doubt it, considering how predictably bad his offense has been since Cleveland. Did the Lakers really get consistent shots in their high percentage spots? Not really.

-Jim Buss talking advanced stats doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. I think he mentioned he has his own system. Yes, I laughed too. No info yet whether it resembles a happy face on an etch-and-sketch pad. I mean, who needs to worry about things like Daryl Morey and the MIT Sloan conference. Attended not only by bright NBA people like Mark Cuban, Kevin Pritchard, Adam Silver, but media analysts from the Economist, New York Times, the CEO of Manchester United, executives for MLB, even Jeff Ma. No sign of the Lakers....except for...drum roll...

Jeannie Buss. You know. The other Buss who has no input at all on the basketball side for the Lakers. No word what Jim Buss was doing. Doodle jump?

Anyways, I think it's a fair assessment of the Lakers; there's really no indication of some remarkable analytical prowess in the front office. I don't think they have a history of that (IIRC, the only real mention of the Lakers and analytics was that Kobe had hired somebody outside of the organization who creates tapes for him to analyze).

I think Jerry West was just old school instinct. Things you can't teach, he just has brilliant intuition. Phil Jackson wasn't a stats guy either. He was about 2 things, getting great talent to play together and using the triangle offense.

In fact, most teams making use of sabermetrics or advanced analytics in basetball of basketball have been small market teams. Because that's what they have to use to compete (see Moneyball). In fact, the lockout this year has been largely driven by analytics - from small-market teams that have been pushing for economic mechanisms for not only more parity but greater growth league-wise.

Are the Lakers behind the curve as far as analytics? I'd agree, based on circumstantial evidence, history, and the fact that none of the Lakers' basketball people have ever demonstrated a capacity, ability, reputation, or interest in advanced analytics.

[LaLa]

Saw that coming...

[So Gutta]

I find this very hard to believe.

I guess the Rockets' laptops didn't have a good readout of Jeremy Lin before they cut him.

[milesfides]

Nothing wrong with the Rockets' laptops, they actually picked Lin up. (Not surprised they let him go either, with Dragic and Lowry).

You should think about what's wrong with other teams' laptops. You know, maybe one team in particular, that is dying for a point guard... Kobe Bryant, when asked how GM's could have missed Jeremy Lin:

"They would all be fired if I was owning a team. I hear this stuff about how he came out of nowhere, and I think it's a load of crap. You can't play that well and just come out of nowhere. There has to be something there, and everybody missed it. So, heads would roll."

Gotta love how Jim Buss and Mitch felt about that.

[miggs]

I was amazed with Kobe's response, seemed so heated. I wonder if Kobe has an eye for talent though, I wonder which people actually DID believe Lin could play at the level he was at.

[Gek]

I doubt Kobe knew who Lin was much before anyone else. Unless he's obsessed with the Ivy League, advanced college stats blogs or NBA hopefuls, he'd have had no reason to know.


I doubt Kobe much cares who we draft in the second round either.

[dockingsched]

Nothing wrong with the Rockets' laptops, they actually picked Lin up. (Not surprised they let him go either, with Dragic and Lowry).

You should think about what's wrong with other teams' laptops. You know, maybe one team in particular, that is dying for a point guard... Kobe Bryant, when asked how GM's could have missed Jeremy Lin:

"They would all be fired if I was owning a team. I hear this stuff about how he came out of nowhere, and I think it's a load of crap. You can't play that well and just come out of nowhere. There has to be something there, and everybody missed it. So, heads would roll."

Gotta love how Jim Buss and Mitch felt about that.

i'm sure they didn't feel too terrible about it, since they did try to claim him themselves:

http://lakers.ocregister.com/2012/02/12 ... ors/69243/

Not sure if this makes it better it better or worse for Lakers fans who see the Lakers’ lack of production at point guard and would love it if Jeremy Lin, who was born in Los Angeles, was wearing purple and gold, but …

The Lakers did want him. They wanted him before in 2010, and they officially wanted him earlier this season. Obviously, everybody wants him now.

The Lakers put in a waiver claim on Lin after Golden State dropped him on Dec. 9, but the Houston Rockets had a worse record last season and thus were awarded Lin ahead of the Lakers. After the Rockets also waived Lin on Dec. 24, the Lakers were again interested but didn’t even bother putting in a claim after realizing other teams with worse records last season were again going after Lin.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I was amazed with Kobe's response, seemed so heated. I wonder if Kobe has an eye for talent though, I wonder which people actually DID believe Lin could play at the level he was at.

I don't think anybody did, not even the Knicks. Lin got play time only because 3 point guards ahead of him got injured.

[miggs]

I was amazed with Kobe's response, seemed so heated. I wonder if Kobe has an eye for talent though, I wonder which people actually DID believe Lin could play at the level he was at.

I don't think anybody did, not even the Knicks. Lin got play time only because 3 point guards ahead of him got injured.

That's true, it just seems the kid took full advantage of his opportunity. Let's hope Kobe's never a General Manager or worse a team owner

[milesfides]

i'm sure they didn't feel too terrible about it, since they did try to claim him themselves:

Nah, that doesn't prove a thing, except too little too late. Of course the Lakers had no chance to get him during the year because of their record and low waiver priority. They didn't even bother putting in their waiver request after Lin was cut from the Rockets. No. Chance.

Because the Lakers' real opportunity was the draft. Funny enough, Lin believed he had a promise from the Lakers at #58. Instead, they drafted Caracter (who's not with the team anymore). They also drafted Ebanks with their #43; needless to say, they weren't even thinking of "wasting" a pick on Lin that "high."

[dockingsched]

so, what exactly is your point with lin then? that every single team in the league missed on him in the draft? how is that relevant to the conversation?

[milesfides]

Go back in this thread, I was responding to another poster about Houston.

How is all this relevant to the conversation? I don't know, maybe you should ask yourself since you yourself extended this talk about Jeremy Lin.

[Dr Aki]

i doubt this.

why? 2 reasons...

1. mike brown smacked world peace with synergy defensive stats
2. in the PJ days, we'd have assistants penning down every play they tried in the game and when it came to crunch time, theyd run the successful ones

so really, we were paying assistants instead of a laptop.

[Mamba Venom]

He pointed that out.

But the Lakers have 5 chips (most in the new millennium) so are the Lakers really lacking in the evaluation process.