Deron Or Dwight?

World Peace · Post #1 » by **World Peace** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:13 am

Two questions, who would you rather have and who is more likely to become a Laker?

I'd rather have Deron simply because we need him much more than Dwight. This is a point guard's league and with all due respect to Ramon Sessions he's not a championship caliber point guard. At least not yet. D-Will is as good as any point guard in the game outside of Chris Paul. Howard is a stud obviously when healthy, but we already have an elite center in Andrew Bynum. We don't have an elite point guard although we should.

I also believe Deron is a bigger possibility because he actually wants to be a Laker. Howard doesn't. With the Nets missing out on a top 3 draft pick they likely won't have a good enough offer to land Howard. If they don't land Howard then Deron is a goner. The Lakers have two great trade assets in Pau Gasol (Would have to be a 3 team trade) and Andrew Bynum. Time will tell if they land either, but I'd definitely rathet have D-Will.

Best case scenario is the Lakers land D-Will in a 3 team trade involving Pau Gasol. If this happens Howard would definitely wanna be a Laker since Deron would be here. Lakers obviously trade Andrew Bynum for Dwight assuming the back isn't an issue anymore.

salmahayek · Post #2 » by **salmahayek** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:17 pm

Neither...a point guard that needs to dominate the ball will not flourish playing with Kobe. Plus, why would we want two players jacking up a combined 38 (or more) shots a night at a 45% clip, when we can have two players (Bynum & Gasol) putting up around 30 shots a game at 55%?

As for Dwight - bigger head case than Bynum. I also think it is easier to fix knees than bad backs. Plus Bynum's offensive game is more refined.

Dr Aki · Post #3 » by **Dr Aki** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:11 pm

imo

we need a PG to dominate the ball so that kobe can do all the shooting he wants without wasting energy on ballhandling and unnecessary dribbling

Post #4 » by **dockingsched** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:22 pm

if its about giving up bynum, i'd much rather have dwight. i don't even know if i'd give up bynum for d-will.

its easy to say u prefer d-will if you're giving up pau, but i don't think thats realistic at all.

salmahayek · Post #5 » by **salmahayek** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:46 pm

Aki - I agree, but I do not see Kobe giving up the ball.

salmahayek · Post #6 » by **salmahayek** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:49 pm

I do agree that if we were to bring in Williams and Howard it would be intriguing, as I think they collectively could make Kobe adjust his game, more so than Kobe will adjust for Mike Brown to more effectively play with Bynum and Gasol.

I think it would take Bynum to get Williams and Howard to force the Magic's hand with a trade to LA for Gasol, picks, and players to balance out bringing Hedo with him.

LAFan24 · Post #7 » by **LAFan24** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:32 pm

Derron Williams > D.Wight. An all-star PG that can complement and actually stand up to Kobe is needed. No more of this pass Kobe the ball and let him ISO crap while the PG just runs to corner of the court.

Post #8 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:34 pm

It is amazing to me that even Lakers fans underestimate Kobe's desire to win and refuse to believe that he will pass the ball.

here is the thing, Kobe does tend to hog the ball and lose us some games because of it, but he does it in stretches and not for entire games and most of the times is in the 4th. I can't remember the last time he lost us a playoff game playing where he didn't pass for the entire game.

The no pass reputation was earned in only a few games and not the majority of his games. compare the assists stats Vs Durants and tell who passes the ball more and who has the worst reputation about not passing.

At his worst no passing mode, Kobe was under instruction from Phil and Brown to carry the teams offense. he won 3 championships passing the ball to Shaq so why is it so hard to believe that Kobe will pass the ball.

having a real PG like Williams will do wonders for Kobe. it will allow him to shoot the ball and conserve energy for defense.

Post #9 » by **Kilroy** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:35 pm

dockingsched wrote:if its about giving up bynum, i'd much rather have dwight. i don't even know if i'd give up bynum for d-will.

its easy to say u prefer d-will if you're giving up pau, but i don't think thats realistic at all.

That's pretty much how I feel about it too...

And I don't really see us trading Bynum for anyone but Dwight. I do think though, that if we got Dwight, DWill might do what he could to force NJ to take a Pau trade.

But I think it's the longest of long shots that we get both...

Levity · Post #10 » by **Levity** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:18 pm

if its for bynum, id rather have dwight.
i feel a sess/howard combo would be more productive than a dwill/ pau combo. kobe would play great with either one, though.

salmahayek · Post #11 » by **salmahayek** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:21 pm

[b][b][quote][b][quote="snaquille oatmeal"]It is amazing to me that even Lakers fans underestimate Kobe's desire to win and refuse to believe that he will not pass the ball.

here is the thing, Kobe does tend to hog the ball and lose us some games because of it, but he does it in stretches and not for entire games and most of the times is in the 4th. I can't remember the last time he lost us a playoff game playing where he didn't pass for the entire game.

The no pass reputation was earned in only a few games and not the majority of his games. compare the assists stats Vs Durants and tell who passes the ball more and who has the worst reputation about not passing.

At his worst no passing mode, Kobe was under instruction from Phil and Brown to carry the teams offense. he won 3 championships passing the ball to Shaq so why is it so hard to believe that Kobe will pass the ball.

having a real PG like Williams will do wonders for Kobe. it will allow him to shoot the ball and conserve energy for defense.[/quote][/b][/quote][/b][/b]

I'm not saying Kobe does not pass the ball...however, I am saying he shoots too much at this point of his career playing with two 7 ft. All - Stars who shoot the ball in the mid - fifties percentage wise.

There are too many bad offensive possessions where neither big man touches the ball, either to shoot it themselves at a high percentage or facilitate a shot for a wing player.

The offense also stagnates at times with Kobe holding the ball too long, then forces a lower percentage shot as the clock is winding down.

Kobe is an awesome player - still is no question - would just like to see him use his BBall IQ more than he does.

Iamabeasttt · Post #12 » by **Iamabeasttt** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:56 pm

salmahayek wrote:Neither...a point guard that needs to dominate the ball will not flourish playing with Kobe. Plus, why would we want two players jacking up a combined 38 (or more) shots a night at a 45% clip, when we can have two players (Bynum & Gasol) putting up around 30 shots a game at 55%?

As for Dwight - bigger head case than Bynum. I also think it is easier to fix knees than bad backs. Plus Bynum's offensive game is more refined.

having both bynum and gasol in at the same time is a defensive liability during PNR's and transition.

salmahayek · Post #13 » by **salmahayek** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:43 pm

[quote="Iamabeasttt"][quote="salmahayek"]Neither...a point guard that needs to dominate the ball will not flourish playing with Kobe. Plus, why would we want two players jacking up a combined 38 (or more) shots a night at a 45% clip, [b]when we can have two players (Bynum & Gasol) putting up around 30 shots a game at 55%?[/b]

As for Dwight - bigger head case than Bynum. I also think it is easier to fix knees than bad backs. Plus Bynum's offensive game is more refined.[/quote]

having both bynum and gasol in at the same time is a defensive liability during PNR's and transition.[/quote]

Good points...however, the Lakers could play more zone principles in the half court set with Bynum and Gasol in the game together to offset pick and rolls...the Spurs were able to win titles with Robinson and Duncan playing together.

There would be less transition opportunities if more inside shots were both taken and made. Excessive outside jacks lead to more transition opportunities for your opponent.

stunnar0b · Post #14 » by **stunnar0b** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:01 pm

No question its dwight. and i agree with the post above, sessions and d12 would be pretty good at running the p/r. also with howard holding down the paint our defense wouldnt drop off at all in fact it would be that much better.

like i said before with dwill and pau sure we wouldnt have triuble scroing but we be giving up baskets left and rightright

stunnar0b · Post #15 » by **stunnar0b** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:07 pm

And i would actually be ok with sessions being our starter as long as we pickd up howard

frozt · Post #16 » by **frozt** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Dwight, his impact on defense alone is second to none...Plus he's a more efficient scorer then Bynum.

Mamba Venom · Post #17 » by **Mamba Venom** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:14 pm

Kobe + big man. Look what Kobe did w/ Gasol. I want D-12 and then I want to get LO back.

Sessions/Blake
Kobe/Goudlock
MWP/?
LO/Hill
D-12/?

is a great team IMO. Hopefully it wouldn't cost that much

Stebo_SSK · Post #18 » by **Stebo_SSK** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:14 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:It is amazing to me that even Lakers fans underestimate Kobe's desire to win and refuse to believe that he will pass the ball.

here is the thing, Kobe does tend to hog the ball and lose us some games because of it, but he does it in stretches and not for entire games and most of the times is in the 4th. I can't remember the last time he lost us a playoff game playing where he didn't pass for the entire game.

The no pass reputation was earned in only a few games and not the majority of his games. compare the assists stats Vs Durants and tell who passes the ball more and who has the worst reputation about not passing.

At his worst no passing mode, Kobe was under instruction from Phil and Brown to carry the teams offense. he won 3 championships passing the ball to Shaq so why is it so hard to believe that Kobe will pass the ball.

having a real PG like Williams will do wonders for Kobe. it will allow him to shoot the ball and conserve energy for defense.

100 percent this. My only issue is that will the coaching staff be willing to allow this with any PG outside of someone as good as Deron Williams. When the going got tough for LA they made Ramon Sessions a DFish 2.0. After the trade deadline he played well especially when he was allowed to run the floor and create fastbreaks. Its a fork in the road with D12 and Dwill. Pau isnt netting Dwill so fans can stop using that scenario and Bynum is a toss of how well will he be in the future. Id be willing to the bet that Dwill can elevate Pau and Kobe's game and if you add in another scorer like Beasley or a shooter like Novak in the mix. That could be a big problem.

Iplaytolose · Post #19 » by **Iplaytolose** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:45 am

Howard.

It will be a lot easier to build around Howard when Kobe retires over someone like Deron, and Howard will give us more of a win now impact. When push comes to shove, I'd take Deron over nothing though.

And as far as Deron not being a good fit with Kobe, isn't Deron the best off the ball PG in the league? Deron is like an amoeba as far as playing the role his team needs him to play. That goes back as far as his Illinois days.

tugs · Post #20 » by **tugs** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:16 am

is it stupid to say give Sessions the whole off season to adjust with the team? that is if he's still the starting PG. if by any chance we land Deron, I don't think we'll have any problem with Sessions leading the 2nd unit.

a quality PG I think is the priority now for LA. Kobe is doing too much already that sometimes he gets burnt out. another playmaker outside of Kobe should be plan A imo.