D'Antoni delay, ok. Phil Jackson Delays . . . NO WAY!

[LAKESHOW]

Mike D'Antoni delayed his debut on the sidelines as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers on Sunday in their game against the Rockets

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... kers_Debut

[DrewBynum77]

let it go, man.

[ennui]

let it go, man.

[GAME TIME]

let it go, man.

[Kobe System]

let it go, man.

[GoldKnightRises]

let it go, man.

[DEEP3CL]

Yo LAKESHOW, since like 5 dudes hit you with the same quote I'll go different. Phil botched his chance at getting that job again. Plus I'm not so damn sure he would've been the right guy this time anyway. You gotta look at it from this point, if a man has to think about coaching the Lakers then he really doesn't want the job anyway.

Plus just because he came back it doesn't gurantee a title, everybody was only yelling for Phil because he was a security blanket. It's always safe to go with the known, but I saw a lot of things from Phil in his last year with us that told me the man was running thin on his magic.

As far as the topic, it's two different things man. You can't stand on a whack knee dude.

[LAKESHOW]

NOOO!!! Never give up!! Never surrender!! Hell NO!!




ok, now that ive gotten that out of the way, ive given it up.

[Tee212]

fing weirdo

[Imadogg]

Phil delayed making the choice to become Lakers coach. Mike D didn't. So thread isn't even valid

[MensRea]

Yo LAKESHOW, since like 5 dudes hit you with the same quote I'll go different. Phil botched his chance at getting that job again. Plus I'm not so damn sure he would've been the right guy this time anyway. You gotta look at it from this point, if a man has to think about coaching the Lakers then he really doesn't want the job anyway.

Plus just because he came back it doesn't gurantee a title, everybody was only yelling for Phil because he was a security blanket. It's always safe to go with the known, but I saw a lot of things from Phil in his last year with us that told me the man was running thin on his magic.

As far as the topic, it's two different things man. You can't stand on a whack knee dude.

Deep, you are wrong on so many levels...I'm trying to let this go, but one last time...

1) Phil asked for two days to think about whether or not he wanted to coach again. Wasn't too much to ask considering the circumstances, especially since Dantoni STILL isn't ready to coach the team. The Lakers wanted to rush for whatever reason, and that's what they did, so fine. But it's not like he was holding the franchise hostage. The Lakers moved unreasonably fast and did him dirty in not allowing him those two days. Five championships...you'd think he at least earned it.

The decision wasn't simply about whether or not he wanted to coach the Lakers. How long was he going to coach for? How many more years? He's 67 years old. What if he failed? How would that affect his legacy? Does this team have enough to win? Is he up for the task? Is he ready to go mentally?

Two days is all he asked for to sort out those very heavy questions. Two effin days.

2) OF COURSE HE WAS THE RIGHT GUY! You have a two year window to win a championship, and you may have any one of the following coaches: 1) Phil Jackson, 2)....who the eff cares. THe mans has won championships in 55% of the seasons that he's coached, and you're giving him two seasons. OF COURSE HE WAS THE RIGHT GUY.

3) Dantoni, while providing an exciting frame work for an interesting season, raises more questions heading into the post season. His style has NEVER worked. If we're in full blown "no time to eff around" mode. OF COURSE PHIL JACKSON WAS THE RIGHT GUY.

I'm over it and all, still bothered by it for the way it went down, but lets not pretend like the Lakers made the right decision here.

[LAKESHOW]

fing weirdo

ahahaha, if words on the computer, seem to make you upset, perhaps you need to release a little bit, and tell your hand to ease its grip from your private parts.

[supaflash]

Sorry MensRea but you are wrong.

Hesitation to commit is completely different then the physical ability to be able to be on the sidelines.

This isn't JUST about the championship window, which is still a huge piece, but it's about the future of the franchise. This is the Lakers, we don't just have windows, we're an institution. Management wanted a correct fit for now and a commitment for the future for Dwight and the 2014/2015 plans. Phil was not the best candidate for either IMO.

I love Phil and what he did, but I did not want to see this team try and learn and run the triangle. The triangle was getting worn out as it was and we don't have the personnel for it anymore. I don't' think anyone wanted to see Nash relegated to the triangle nor Dwight be an iso post option. This team just wasn't built for that system and trying to learn it on the fly would have been bad news and caused more strife then anything. Phil was checked out the last season he was here and he has never been a great defensive coach, and honestly he's never been a great X and O coach either, he's gotten out coached several times his last few years. Phil's biggest assets were the mental control of players, a system that the team was built for and implemented, his preparation for games, and his manipulation of refs and opponents. And part of his success is that he had 4 of the greatest players of all time at the primes of their careers and pretty good fortune with health of all those teams.

I don't think this team with the aged veterans and with guys like Nash and Kobe need the mental and personality control that Phil brought nor do they need the confidence. These guys know they can win and expect to when they play right. I also don't think Phil's mind games with the media would work with Dwight, that could have been a strenuous situation. It worked for a while with Pau but was already starting to strain him. It takes a long time to build the team correctly for the triangle as well as actually learning it and implementing it correctly and I don't think these were the right guys for it. I also think that other coaches and the league became used to and weary of Phil's tactics with the media and refs. IMO I really don't think that Phil was the right guy for this team at this time. Maybe at the beginning of the summer... but not now... and not if he couldn't commit to a plan for the next few years.

I think management made the right choice. Mike has a great raport with Nash and Kobe already and he has pieces in a defense and Kobe that he never had before. I was leaning a little towards Sloan myself, I thought his inside screening and pick and roll game would have been great for Nash, Pau, and Dwight, but Mike's open style will be great for this team. They are all good ball players, the more we release them to play the better. I personally was sick of watching the triangle struggle along, we won more because of Kobe and a great supporting cast then any system. Phil was sentimental and like most things in life you need to let sentiment go to move forward.

And for the stupid argument 'his system never won' just stop. How many systems have actually won? And what was the real difference? Mavs won with a spread jump shooting style, last years finalists both played up tempo small ball, SA had the league's best record and in the WCF with a pick and roll spread floor style and Mike had plenty of success in the playoffs considering his team had horrible defensive players and no real go to superstar outside of Nash himself, who really shouldn't be your go to guy down the stretch.

This team will be fun, and honestly these guys are focused on winning so bad they need a little fun, but don't let that fool you how much Mike and everyone else want to win.

[LAKESHOW]

Sorry MensRea but you are wrong.

Phil . . . honestly he's never been a great X and O coach either, he's gotten out coached several times his last few years.

I'll give you props for some good points in your post. However, Not a Good Xs and Os coach? cmon now . . .

[supaflash]

Well I'm talking more in game X and Os. Pre game for a game plan definitely one of the best. Halftime adjustments... sometimes... But I never really liked his adjustments, plays out of timeouts and in end game situations, etc. In game he tended to just believe in the plan he had and stuck to it, which was a good thing a lot of the time, but a lot of the time we just had superior talent and superior will to win. I honestly think he got out coached several times by Doc, Pop, Karl, Carlisle, Sloan, at least on things that went on in game. Some of those series were closer then they should have been and the ones we lost were pretty bad.

[The Laker Kid]

Phil is like what, almost 70? At some point the man will have to walk away. What better time than now to make that transition? Think about it... we have the BEST PnR PG the game has ever seen, coupled with the game's BEST PnR finisher in Doowite. It is just logical to have the best PnR coach in place that is Pringles! Not to mention he is younger than Phil.. so if his system works out, he can be the Lakers coach for a long time.

Also, the last two games have been super exciting to watch. I love it!

[MensRea]

Sorry MensRea but you are wrong.

Hesitation to commit is completely different then the physical ability to be able to be on the sidelines.

This isn't JUST about the championship window, which is still a huge piece, but it's about the future of the franchise. This is the Lakers, we don't just have windows, we're an institution. Management wanted a correct fit for now and a commitment for the future for Dwight and the 2014/2015 plans. Phil was not the best candidate for either IMO.

I love Phil and what he did, but I did not want to see this team try and learn and run the triangle. The triangle was getting worn out as it was and we don't have the personnel for it anymore. I don't' think anyone wanted to see Nash relegated to the triangle nor Dwight be an iso post option. This team just wasn't built for that system and trying to learn it on the fly would have been bad news and caused more strife then anything. Phil was checked out the last season he was here and he has never been a great defensive coach, and honestly he's never been a great X and O coach either, he's gotten out coached several times his last few years. Phil's biggest assets were the mental control of players, a system that the team was built for and implemented, his preparation for games, and his manipulation of refs and opponents. And part of his success is that he had 4 of the greatest players of all time at the primes of their careers and pretty good fortune with health of all those teams.

I don't think this team with the aged veterans and with guys like Nash and Kobe need the mental and personality control that Phil brought nor do they need the confidence. These guys know they can win and expect to when they play right. I also don't think Phil's mind games with the media would work with Dwight, that could have been a strenuous situation. It worked for a while with Pau but was already starting to strain him. It takes a long time to build the team correctly for the triangle as well as actually learning it and implementing it correctly and I don't think these were the right guys for it. I also think that other coaches and the league became used to and weary of Phil's tactics with the media and refs. IMO I really don't think that Phil was the right guy for this team at this time. Maybe at the beginning of the summer... but not now... and not if he couldn't commit to a plan for the next few years.

I think management made the right choice. Mike has a great raport with Nash and Kobe already and he has pieces in a defense and Kobe that he never had before. I was leaning a little towards Sloan myself, I thought his inside screening and pick and roll game would have been great for Nash, Pau, and Dwight, but Mike's open style will be great for this team. They are all good ball players, the more we release them to play the better. I personally was sick of watching the triangle struggle along, we won more because of Kobe and a great supporting cast then any system. Phil was sentimental and like most things in life you need to let sentiment go to move forward.

And for the stupid argument 'his system never won' just stop. How many systems have actually won? And what was the real difference? Mavs won with a spread jump shooting style, last years finalists both played up tempo small ball, SA had the league's best record and in the WCF with a pick and roll spread floor style and Mike had plenty of success in the playoffs considering his team had horrible defensive players and no real go to superstar outside of Nash himself, who really shouldn't be your go to guy down the stretch.

This team will be fun, and honestly these guys are focused on winning so bad they need a little fun, but don't let that fool you how much Mike and everyone else want to win.

As a man who lived through the 90's Lakers, I can tell you that just because we are an institution, nothing is guaranteed. I respect that you disagree with me, but I stand by what I said. Phil was the right choice. I've come to grips with the decision, but we made the wrong choice.

[MensRea]

And for the stupid argument 'his system never won' just stop. How many systems have actually won? And what was the real difference? Mavs won with a spread jump shooting style, last years finalists both played up tempo small ball, SA had the league's best record and in the WCF with a pick and roll spread floor style and Mike had plenty of success in the playoffs considering his team had horrible defensive players and no real go to superstar outside of Nash himself, who really shouldn't be your go to guy down the stretch.

This team will be fun, and honestly these guys are focused on winning so bad they need a little fun, but don't let that fool you how much Mike and everyone else want to win.

All I have to say to that is...what the hell. If you're talking about systems, it was called the triangle. It has been run to the tune of 11 championships over a span of 20 years. It set those Laker teams apart in the sense that nobody could really prepare for the Lakers; when they ran their offense properly, they were unstoppable, the could control tempo, they could run, they could grind, the triangle gave them a way to play any style.

Dantoni's system does not. That's all I really have to say about that.

[Run-MKE 311]

Winning cures all and for right now the Show' is playing good ball. I have moved beyond Phil at this point, I am glad not to have to deal with the soap opera surrounding him and Baby Jimmy.

Pringles feels like a good fit for this group of guys, not to say the triangle would not work, but this style of Coach D's is showing some solid early returns.

None of this matters if the Lakers are not there in June though, long season ahead.

[supaflash]

I'm talking systems other then the triangle. The Spurs had a run with an inside out style, but won more on defense and the talent of their guys. Houston won playing inside out with Hakeem and shooters. Other then the tri there really hasn't been any one system that's been more successful than another. It comes down to the right fit for the players and 90% of the time a superstar that can take the team over the top when the system breaks down and the pressure is on.

So you are probably thinking well that makes my argument right there... but to me it was never the triangle that won. The triangle was brutal at times to watch, both for the Bulls and the Lakers and I watched all of those Bulls runs. It's a good offense that works with good smart players and good pieces but if it's so end all why has no one else ever been successful with it? Because they didn't have Jordan or Kobe and Shaq, Pip, Pau, etc.

In theory what Mike runs is not all that far removed from the Tri in that they are both a flowing read and react system, they just cater to a different style and set of players. The tri is also not hugely far off from the Princeton and we saw how well that was going... Both the Tri and the Princeton are more deliberate systems designed to get guys in specific spots and create cuts and reads based largely on high and low post sets to force the defense to pick it's poison. D'antoni on the other hand creates shots based on pick and rolls and spacing, utilizing player's strengths. And I'm in total agreement with him that when you have this much talent that needs the ball you create more possessions to more effectively use each talent more fully and minimize the effect of mistakes.

If it were just Kobe and Dwight I'd say yeah, the Tri would be better. Slow the game down and minimize possessions, depend on the defense, so the reliance on just those two ala Kobe Shaq becomes more significant and less on the other players, but with these guys we need to spread the ball around.