Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics

[GeneralNash]

Your are choking on your own vommit kid, ....stop already.

You are derailing my point which simply put, is Kobe refuses to sacrifice his offense regardless of who plays with him (post 2003). And sometimes, it is not what is in the best intrest of the team and is not condusive to winning basketball.

You don't have to agree with me, but stop making excuses for Kobe. Believe me whan I say that I want him to be successful and get more rings than Jordan, but IMO he has to sacrifice or share the scoring load with other capable players.

That is the problem isn't it? Who else has shown to be a capable consistent scorer? Certainly not Dwight, Gasol, or Nash. No one else has been a consistent scorer. Kobe has carried this team on his back. That is why we see him tired with a poor shot right now...it is the effects of him carrying the team literally. We got nash and dwight to make the game a bit easier for him but it is just not working.

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[PandGneverfold]

Your are choking on your own vommit kid, ....stop already.

You are derailing my point which simply put, is Kobe refuses to sacrifice his offense regardless of who plays with him (post 2003). And sometimes, it is not what is in the best intrest of the team and is not condusive to winning basketball.

You don't have to agree with me, but stop making excuses for Kobe. Believe me whan I say that I want him to be successful and get more rings than Jordan, but IMO he has to sacrifice or share the scoring load with other capable players.

That's the thing though b shaw you really don't have a point. Kobe is a scorer and his track record speaks for itself. Since shaq left he has had to shoulder a lot of the scoring burden. The Kobe wants to win his way and only his way is as invalid as the if he shoots less we always win crowd.

[b shaw20]

Your are choking on your own vommit kid, ....stop already.

You are derailing my point which simply put, is Kobe refuses to sacrifice his offense regardless of who plays with him (post 2003). And sometimes, it is not what is in the best intrest of the team and is not condusive to winning basketball.

You don't have to agree with me, but stop making excuses for Kobe. Believe me whan I say that I want him to be successful and get more rings than Jordan, but IMO he has to sacrifice or share the scoring load with other capable players.

That's the thing though b shaw you really don't have a point. Kobe is a scorer and his track record speaks for itself. Since shaq left he has had to shoulder a lot of the scoring burden. The Kobe wants to win his way and only his way is as invalid as the if he shoots less we always win crowd.

you dont get it dude, on this team we DONT need him to carry the scoring load. Don't give me that "he's a scorer, ....record speaks for itself BS". IMO, he can stll easily get 24 ppg but with much less effort and more efficiency. He needs to play unselfish basketball, help D12 get his and build togetherness.

Point in case, kobe has played a great first quarter vs Jazz and we are up. Its a good start and hope he keeps it up. He's made a consertive effort to get D12 and others some good looks.

this is my point which apparently you don't get.

[PandGneverfold]

Who else on this team can score on a consistent basis? Nash isn't a scorer, pAu is a seven footer shooting 43 percent on the year . Howard is not a 100 percent and can't dominate night in and night out. Every top team has that guy who gets 25 plus a night and Kobe is that guy for us, and he's doing it on a wonderful ts percentage. If it weren't for his scoring this team would have five or ten wins max right now.

[Penberthy]

How is Kobe supposed to average 10 assists when the ball is in Nash’s hands the entire game? And when it’s not in Nash’s hands (when he’s on the bench), then it’s in Duhon’s hands…

Kobe was the playmaker when Nash was out during the Bickerstaff stint. He averaged 7.5 assists.

Wait, so Kobe can't get 10 assists if he sets his mind to it? OK.

[TyCobb]

People gotta be consistent in knocking down shots.

[vmor]

you dont get it dude, on this team we DONT need him to carry the scoring load. Don't give me that "he's a scorer, ....record speaks for itself BS". IMO, he can stll easily get 24 ppg but with much less effort and more efficiency. He needs to play unselfish basketball, help D12 get his and build togetherness.

Point in case, kobe has played a great first quarter vs Jazz and we are up. Its a good start and hope he keeps it up. He's made a consertive effort to get D12 and others some good looks.

this is my point which apparently you don't get.

I agree with bshaw20, Penberthy etc.: we all know that Kobe is one of the best INDIVIDUAL players ever. If he played tennis singles, he would sure have plenty of Grand Slams. Unfortunately for him, in basketball the team can usually defeat an individual, no matter how great - there are plenty of examples, just ask Nash.

In his 'savior' mode Kobe often puts the rest of the team to sleep; if another of his frequent milestones approaches, he reaches for it - and sometimes sacrifices the team victory. In that mode it is hard to feel sorry for him.

When Kobe decides to play a balanced team ball (not his occasional truculent "see, I am passing only tonight, not shooting at all" of the past), the result is usually something good like the Utah game yesterday - and the scoring is easier for him as well. I am sure we all enjoyed that.
If he finally decides to stick to that (at last - now that he's getting older and slower), the team could win a couple more championships as is - for Lakers AND Kobe. If he does not, he won't get another title. It's that simple to me.

I do wish Kobe those 2 more titles, for his effort and for the team's sake

[Slava]

I agree with bshaw20, Penberthy etc

That's when you know you are wrong

[b shaw20]

I agree with bshaw20, Penberthy etc

That's when you know you are wrong

So let me get this straight, ... you don't agree that the way which Kobe played vs Utah helps the team more than when he is in volume scoring mode?

What exactly is your deal?

[JohnVancouver]

Aside from his skill with the ball and great basketball sense, Kobe is such a scoring machine that the defense always has to assume he's going to shoot, and likely make, any shot. That really gives him a lot of chances to find open men. As he showed against Utah. It also takes pressure off Nash and allows him to be a shooter.
Since he began being a pass-only type, defenders haven't been afraid of Nash's shot which is ludicrous given how good he is. The result was a bit lopsided on Friday - Kobe 14 assists, nash 2 - but when Kobe and Steve are both shooting and passing, Lakers are tough to guard.

And really, Dwight needs to be fed lobs. He has just about zero for post skills.

[Slava]

I agree with bshaw20, Penberthy etc

That's when you know you are wrong

So let me get this straight, ... you don't agree that the way which Kobe played vs Utah helps the team more than when he is in volume scoring mode?

What exactly is your deal?

My deal is that you guys criticize him in a compulsive and almost addictive manner for things that are not even his fault.

That performance against Utah did not happen out of just wanting to pass, it is the byproduct of the team as a whole changing its offensive philosophy to establish him the post and make him the primary creator rather than use him as an off ball weakside threat from the Nash pick and roll.

He knows that before the coaches have seen it and yet he has patiently played every role without complaining like some others did. Yet he is labeled selfish.

If pau and Dwight put in as much effort to create opportunities for themselves the ball will come to them from Kobe, hell he even tries to make entry passes to Metta knowing fully well he is as useful as a drunk horse in the post.

So ease up on the irrational criticism and try to be more objective in the future.

[PandGneverfold]

Sadly Slava as much sense as you made it will still go over people's head. It easier for them to just blame Kobe instead of being objective.

[leeprettyp]

Exactly why I stopped arguing with those guys. The "Everything is Kobe's fault" theme got old already. Blame the guy who plays hard every minute and has played EVERY GAME this season at a clip of almost 40mpg in his +17th season smh.

[vmor]

My deal is that you guys criticize him in a compulsive and almost addictive manner for things that are not even his fault... So ease up on the irrational criticism and try to be more objective in the future.

I can't see what I said as irrational criticism: "we all know that Kobe is one of the best INDIVIDUAL players ever... When Kobe decides to play a balanced team ball ... the result is usually something good like the Utah game yesterday - and the scoring is easier for him as well. I am sure we all enjoyed that..."

Try to parse your statement

If pau and Dwight put in as much effort to create opportunities for themselves the ball will come to them from Kobe...

and think about its absurdity!
Not talking about that helpful "That's when you know you are wrong" - from a moderator...

[Slava]

Are you trying to say something?

[dockingsched]

oh god, i had no interest in this thread but finally decided to click, just finished reading it.

wow man.

this board is really insane.

[stunnar0b]

Kobe, these past two games, has been playing great is all I have to say

[GAME TIME]

Kobe was amazing today..

He was the best player in the world today...

He got everyone involved, played great defense and was clutch down the stretch.

[Penberthy]

I agree with bshaw20, Penberthy etc

That's when you know you are wrong

When kobe chooses to play team ball, LIKE HE HAS DONE THE PAST TWO GAMES, the lakers win. THE END.

14 assists
14 assists

[Slava]

No man or drug on this earth can cure brainular atrophy.