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Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash have yet to put it all together on the floor for the Lakers.
"Then again," Nash protests, "who is keeping up with those guys? They can't even keep up with each other!"
Nash has told his coach -- hot-seated Mike D'Antoni -- that he's willing to play any role in any offense. He has tried everything up to and including getting healthier food on the team plane, but nothing's working.

Will it ever?

"That's yet to be seen, I guess. I think we have a chance. Maybe not this year. Maybe it's next year. But we have a ton of talent and an organization with great history. If Dwight stays [after this season], we have the pieces. We just have to figure out how to put it all together."

Not a good sign by Steve Nash as player and as a leader. It sound that he did checked out...

5-13. If Nash is about winning he'd I linter to come off the bench or move off the ball all together as a starter

"If Dwight stays" Culprit identified...

what are you talking about?

Nash IMO has been a bigger disappointment than Dwight, he sucks on defense and has lost a step with his playmaking ability.

I would ship him off and a heartbeat for a 1rd draft pick, his contract is awful for his age.

Kilroy wrote:"If Dwight stays" Culprit identified...

That jumped out at me too.

destro wrote:what are you talking about?

He's talking about guys that haven't bought into the system and how to solve the problem and get everyone on the same page and then talks about Dwight like he's got one foot out the door.
If Dwight wasn't openly disgruntled, the question of his being here next season wouldn't have even popped into his head. It just would have been "We have the talent next season." Or "If we can bring Dwight back."
I think it was a subtle indication of who's biggest divisive force in the locker room.

Kobe and Nash want to give D'Antoni a chance... Pau ain't happy, expects to be traded, but he's willing to work for the team. Dwight wants D'Antoni gone yesterday.

Kilroy wrote:

destro wrote:what are you talking about?

He's talking about guys that haven't bought into the system and how to solve the problem and get everyone on the same page and then talks about Dwight like he's got one foot out the door.
If Dwight wasn't openly disgruntled, the question of his being here next season wouldn't have even popped into his head. It just would have been "We have the talent next season." Or "If we can bring Dwight back."
I think it was a subtle indication of who's biggest divisive force in the locker room.

Kobe and Nash want to give D'Antoni a chance... Pau ain't happy, expects to be traded, but he's willing to work for the team. Dwight wants D'Antoni gone yesterday.

i was talking about you lol, i didn't know what you meant but i see it now. that's why dwight walked around with a stat sheet the other night, he's not happy with d'antoni or this system. but it's all but inevitable dwight gets his way, if not just because d'antoni has failed to turn all of this around.

Ahh there's nothing that's all that surprising to me. It was obvious Howard hasn't taken to this offense, hell I'm not sure even Kobe has. Why do you think he was calling for "teammates to help him" a week or so ago. That shocked the hell out of me because when has Kobe ever wanted to work off teammates ? I remember him waving off screens left and right. Bottom line that was a clear shot and Mike to put some things in the offense to make it easier.

So Nash to me isn't letting on to anything that most of us have already figured out. This offense structure really isn't as creative as most thought. If it was guys would soak right in to it.

kblo247 wrote:5-13. If Nash is about winning he'd I linter to come off the bench or move off the ball all together as a starter

Ridiculous...nash is not coming off the bench. He is one of the best shooters in the nba...and he can still create for others and is very unselfish.

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IMO Nash needs to shoot and score more. The Lakers need Nash the Scorer more than Nash the Passer.

GeneralNash wrote:

kblo247 wrote:5-13. If Nash is about winning he'd I linter to come off the bench or move off the ball all together as a starter

Ridiculous...nash is not coming off the bench. He is one of the best shooters in the nba...and he can still create for others and is very unselfish.

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His most useful game tonight was off the ball. He can't creat for others. 54% of his assists this year are Kobe fgm, and unless if you think he makes life easy for Kobe or that Kobe doesn't get his regardless you're wrong. He's better off as a shooter and secondary react guy to teams in scramble. The guy can't create off the dribble one on one, can't run a pnr that either big likes, can't advance it vs pressure timely, and gets trapped. Dantoni took him completely off the ball sans that third quarter, where Nash tried to get back on it, got fussed at by Kobe and yanked to Kobe reinstated the tempo the others felt good with.

He's either one or the other

A - Backup who plays the way he played in Phoneix
B - Starter who plays off Kobe and off the ball to make teams pay as a a shooter or when the d has broken down

He can't start and play his old way, he's a detriment to the team all year when he has tried point blank because his scoring, playmaking, and D all hurt us as he doesn't manage the game well when not on a leash

Nash is probably just speaking out of frustrations. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to quit when the next game starts.

kblo247 wrote:

GeneralNash wrote:

kblo247 wrote:5-13. If Nash is about winning he'd I linter to come off the bench or move off the ball all together as a starter

Ridiculous...nash is not coming off the bench. He is one of the best shooters in the nba...and he can still create for others and is very unselfish.

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His most useful game tonight was off the ball. He can't creat for others. 54% of his assists this year are Kobe fgm, and unless if you think he makes life easy for Kobe or that Kobe doesn't get his regardless you're wrong. He's better off as a shooter and secondary react guy to teams in scramble. The guy can't create off the dribble one on one, can't run a pnr that either big likes, can't advance it vs pressure timely, and gets trapped. Dantoni took him completely off the ball sans that third quarter, where Nash tried to get back on it, got fussed at by Kobe and yanked to Kobe reinstated the tempo the others felt good with.

He's either one or the other

A - Backup who plays the way he played in Phoneix
B - Starter who plays off Kobe and off the ball to make teams pay as a a shooter or when the d has broken down

He can't start and play his old way, he's a detriment to the team all year when he has tried point blank because his scoring, playmaking, and D all hurt us as he doesn't manage the game well when not on a leash

Nash can't create? What....? That's like saying Kobe can't shoot just because he went 25 for 79 shooting the past few games before Utah.

Nash hasn't created this year. He hasn't broken guys down one on one, gotten the bigs involved, played solid D, or beat traps and pressure. He sure hasn't taken over late in games. He lost a step, it could be the broken leg, but its a missing step and he was hurting the team. 5-13 with him running the O, 12-12 without him, and us winning the game wire to wire with him off the ball primarily speaks for itself. It's something he aint doing it, he needed the adjustment to the others over everyone adjusting to him and Dantoni as he isn't used to post or ISO oriented teams but this is one and he was killing us.

kblo247 wrote:Nash hasn't created this year. He hasn't broken guys down one on one, gotten the bigs involved, played solid D, or beat traps and pressure. He sure hasn't taken over late in games. He lost a step, it could be the broken leg, but its a missing step and he was hurting the team. 5-13 with him running the O, 12-12 without him, and us winning the game wire to wire with him off the ball primarily speaks for itself. It's something he aint doing it, he needed the adjustment to the others over everyone adjusting to him and Dantoni as he isn't used to post or ISO oriented teams but this is one and he was killing us.

So you think Nash was the detriment to the team more so than Kobe going 25 - 79. And it just so happens that when Kobe is looking to pass more LA wins by almost 20? Is it coincidence that this team is less than a .500 team when Kobe gets 30 points or more?

Here is what I think. Nash can go one on one but why would he? That has never been his style...He is a team player. He really does create and get people involved. Only two assists vs. Jazz, but those two assists he created for Dwight and Clark. He created points for himself plenty of times against the Jazz. He does it without the need for freak athleticism, just high bball IQ. He would have more assists but the guys he passed it to in the Jazz game didn't make their shots plain and simple.

I do fault Nash for not being aggressive enough in the beginning of the season on the offensive end, but that probably has to do with being rusty coming off injury. Nash needs to be more aggressive in finding his shots, and that'll just open up a multitude of opportunities for him to create just from shot fakes and hesitation moves once the defense clamps down on him.

I think it's a good idea to play Nash off the ball as well at times, on the weak side to get some open threes obviously. He doesn't need to be the primary ball handler or creator, but the great thing is he can do both. And the Lakers best chance is to mix it up with Kobe and Nash sharing the facilitating...Nash playing off the ball sometimes as a spot up shooter, and having him create his own shot or for his teammates. The key is not to stick with one thing, but utilize every ounce of talent this team has, mixing it up to keep teams on their toes. And having Kobe shooting 30 shots for 30 points isn't going to win games.

And to me the team losing primarily has to do with more of a combination of injuries, lack of chemistry, changing systems, Kobe settling for bad percentage shots, and not getting the team more involved. It's not coincidence that when Kobe chose to pass more, and take higher percentage shots, the Lakers win.

This isn't MVP Nash, but he can easily get 15-20 points and 7-10 assists a game, which is dam good, lol. Most of your quarrels has to do with the bad stretch, and that's because the Lakers haven't figured out what works. But I think they now know that if you have two facilitators, or two floor generals in Nash and Kobe, it can be an absolute devastating combination. And we should eventually see a few games where Nash has 20 and 10 assists, Kobe has 30 and 10 assists, and Dwight has 20-30 and 10 boards.

Nobody's going out of their way to pin all the blame on Nash but he very much has a hand in many of our problem.

I'm not disagreeing Nahs can be damn good. I'm saying

If you start Nash. He needs to be off the ball. He lacks synergy with both Dwight and Pau, Kobe feeds them better. Let Kobe get them going same. Then you have Nash play sniper. Then as the game progresses teams collapse and scramble to help on Kobe and you swing it out to Nash after he's established the shot. Guy runs at him he puts it on the deck and then he takes advantage of his playmaking.

Right now as it has stood this season not only his shot but his ball management have been subpar. He's has tons of trouble managing clock, pnr, and traps, and that has led to him being a large contributor to Kobe bail outs and run outs by other teams as bad long shots and floor spacing lead to long misses. We did not try to integrate the guy back in, we brought him back and tried to integrate everyone around him, unlike Pau for instance and that shows greatly in our record being well under 500 with him. Dantoni and Steve are to blame there because they went nostalgic.

Phil had the right idea, he was going to move him off any way for Kobe we all know it. Kobe was the main facilitator of 7 finals and 5 title teams of course Phil would trust him more to be Pippen and move Nash away from the ball in a secondary role. Jim saw it as did Jerry, and that messed with their Showtime ideology and the fact that they knew it would work and Phil would say see I told you so once again was too much.

It isn't a slight to move Nash off the ball either at his age. Kidd gave up a lot of the ball in the 3 guard sets Dallas ran to win a ring. Payton gave it up in Miami over fighting it so like he did here. Shaw and Harper gave it up for Phil to be in the triangle. It's just how things work and how the pieces fit, cause with or without Phil this is a post up, not smal ball not ssol team. Nahs and Dantoni had to have the flexibility and come to Jesus moment to get it but it is as their way hasn't. Sniffed a finals let alone won.

I truly believe Nash can be effective and offset his weaknesses by moving off the ball. He will still give up points, but him not killing flow with the pressure and traps getting the best of him, and both Pau and Dwight not getting how to be slip screen bigs will help. His shooting will be a great asset and his scoring prowess will balance the floor and help our d even because it leads to less runouts organizing the O thru Kobe. He can be a great reactor or right hook so to speak to Kobe's constant jabbing of the seams if a D and catch teams off balance but he just can't start the attack as it hurts the other guys on the team on both sides the ball putting us being the 8 ball.

Now if Nash isn't comfortable off the ball, you have to bring him off the bench where he can just be the Suns Nash. It's drastic, but the same philosophy applies for Pau with him. If you want him to be able to be himself take him off the starters and let him attack second units where his declining speed and athleticism isn't as glaring.

It's not a Nash is terrible all together thing, its a Nash and the way he was approaching the game and Dantoni was fixated on using him at the expense of this teams makeup is garbage kind of thing. He isn't an all star talent anymore so lets not act like he should be the one who has others adjust to him, he hasn't won before so we can't ask those who have gotten farther than him and all the main cogs including even Dwight have, it's disrespectful to their ego and its just not how to win in this league. You might not like it, in fact I know some hate me saying it because Nash is a good funny guy, but his basketball way has nothing to do with his character. **** win in this league, even Magic was one and generally the main facilitator of title groups has that in them, and Kobe has that attitude to get on guys, be aggressive, not get flustered completely like Nash was getting, and instill fear which Nash's way has never produced. Fun doesn't win in this league, boots in asses do, and even the nicest guys, Fisher for example have openly said you have to crack that whip and dictate. Dwight and Pau bitched and complained because they were asked to adjust to Nash, but they won't man up and say that to Kobe or back talk, and they know damn well a foot comes in that ass if he goes out his way to facilitate in a way both bigs are more used to (Kobe fed Dwight like Hedo used to and Pau like only he and LO can) and they knew they better not sandbag it.

It's just a better strategy and attitude all together, there's accountability, their trust which Dantoni lacks by allowing Kobe to dictate the flow and micromanage possessions and which he will need come the playoffs, and it is a win now scenario for this group as the games matter. You can t wait for guys to simply get Nash. If they couldn't do it in 18 games and all began sniping it shows they just weren't feeling ssol or Nash ball, and its no surprise as they all said Phil and the triple post offense which fit them better the second they were asked. Themselves just the way the ball rolls, and I hope Nash and Dantoni accept it and make the most because it would say more about them to actually adjust their ways after a decade to actually win and maximize the group over the group maximizing them than anyone else.

Unlike many I also don't have a grand stat line in my head. Kobe doesn't need to average 10apg and neither does Nash. We need balance 7, 5, 4, 3, 3, 2 and the like across the board ... The hockey assist way of life as that's what wins in this league not a pg making every play ... That hasn't worked since magic and Isiah. Just do what it takes to win games, and that means Nash off the ball, Kobe initiating and picking his spots, Pau getting some post touches and Dwight being a flash guy with Metta, Meeks, Jamison, and Clark all doing their roles and being held accountable for their roles and minutes. Nash and Pringles get that, they can have my respect. They come out the next game trying to force their way and style, they won't, and I'm going to call em out on it because the ends don't justify the means when you look in the only column that matters wins and losses

is it essay season?

AcecardZ wrote:Nobody's going out of their way to pin all the blame on Nash but he very much has a hand in many of our problem.

What starter has not been a problem for the lakers?

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