Where does Steve Nash rank All time / And PG All time

[GeneralNash]

There have been so many great players creating a list is pretty ridiculous. But it's time to think about where Nash stands amongst the all time greats seeing that he is nearing the end of his illustrious career with maybe two seasons left barring a career ending injury.

PG All time list:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Steve Nash
4. Gary Payton
5. John Stockton


Now Magic is easy at the #1. I think Oscar is pretty easy to put at #2. Putting Nash at #3 may show my bias. I like both Payton and Nash but I'd argue that Nash made his teammates better than Payton which is paramount at the Point Guard position. Another thing is Nash shows progression at the age of 30 which is weird...averaging about 50% shooting or more at the age of 30 and up. On the other hand Gary Payton won the DPOY award and was the only PG to ever do that. That is insane. This is a guy who locked down Michael Jordan in the playoffs. That is a feat, even though the Bulls still got the upper hand. But I think one MVP is greater than one DPOY.

NBA all time list:

It's tough to put Nash in an all time list. He wasn't on the best teams in the world. He was on good teams, but he never was on a championships caliber team. He isn't quick or athletically gifted, which can be a plus or minus if you really think about the skill level and IQ you need to have to compensate for the lack of physical gifts / Size to be on that top 50 list...you can also ding him maybe also for not progressing as fast as some of these other guys. But I'd say he easily has to be top 50 on everyone's list fan or not. If Pippen is a top 50 player, a two time MVP has to be a top 50 player.

[magic wand time]

MagicOscarFrazierCousyIsiahStocktonPayton
Somewhere after this.

[LA_Sports]

1. Magic 2. Stockton 3. Robertson 4. Thomas 5. Cousy 6. Kidd 7. Nash
That's really fair when you take championships, all-stars, MVPs, stats and all league teams into account.

[Doormatt]

1. Magic 2. Stockton 3. Robertson 4. Thomas 5. Cousy 6. Kidd 7. Nash
That's really fair when you take championships, all-stars, MVPs, stats and all league teams into account.

cousy? really? he doesnt belong remotely near a top point guard list. hes not even better than deron williams all time.

anyways i would say its something like

1. Magic
2. Nash/Oscar
3. Oscar/Nash
4. Frazier
5. Chris Paul
6. Stockton
7. Thomas/Payton/etc

oscar is hard to rank, and i think hes more like lebron than an actual point guard. strictly on offense, nash and magic are far and away the 2 greatest point guards ever.

[HoopsIsLife]

2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2005, 2006)
5× NBA Assists leader (2005-2007, 2010–2011)
8× NBA All-Star (2002–2003, 2005–2008, 2010, 2012)
3× All-NBA First Team (2005–2007)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2008, 2010)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2002–2003)

+

6× NBA regular season leader for total Assists
2× NBA regular season leader for free-throw percentage:
7× NBA regular season leader for assists per 48 minutes
4× member of 50–40–90 Club: (2006, 2008–10) **

**Has more 50–40–90 seasons than any other player in NBA history
**One of only five players to have ever shot 50–40–90
**One of only two players to have shot 50–40–90 more than once

[Doormatt]

more importantly hes led a few of the greatest offensive teams of all time, far better than anything stockton (who had malone) or isiah ever had. nash has the raw stats, he has the advanced stats, and hes got the team stats to show for it, really second only to magic in that department. the only thing his teams never had were competent defense and rebounding, but you can hardly blame a point guard for that. the most competent center the suns ever had was kurt thomas who they traded for like a second round pick.

[LA_Sports]

1. Magic 2. Stockton 3. Robertson 4. Thomas 5. Cousy 6. Kidd 7. Nash
That's really fair when you take championships, all-stars, MVPs, stats and all league teams into account.

cousy? really? he doesnt belong remotely near a top point guard list. hes not even better than deron williams all time.

Cousy had 13 all-star appearances (12 starts), 2 all-star MVPs, 6 NBA titles, 1 NBA MVP, 10 all NBA 1st team selection (2 2nd team selections), 3 NCAA all American selections (1st 2nd 3rd teams) and lead the league in assists (per game and total) 8 times while being second in points twice.

Deron Williams?... Please, he wishes he had that type of a career. Lol

[Soul Chef Fresh]

I consider Magic, Robertson and Kidd above Nash. Not so much Thomas or Stockton.

And considering his resume that also focuses on the advanced stats, I think Nash would make a case for the Top 50.. maybe even Top 30.

They'll need to update the 50 list once everyone from the 94-97 drafts all retire.

[BattleTested]

Nash is the second or third best point guard of all time, depending on how you look at Oscar Robertson. He's top 5 all time as both a shooter and passer. Plus he can play off ball and accept a lesser role if need be, he's tough as nails, and he typically gets better in big games. Payton obviously a much better defender than Nash could ever hope to be, but he's just not as great a point guard.

[Doormatt]

1. Magic 2. Stockton 3. Robertson 4. Thomas 5. Cousy 6. Kidd 7. Nash
That's really fair when you take championships, all-stars, MVPs, stats and all league teams into account.

cousy? really? he doesnt belong remotely near a top point guard list. hes not even better than deron williams all time.

Cousy had 13 all-star appearances (12 starts), 2 all-star MVPs, 6 NBA titles, 1 NBA MVP, 10 all NBA 1st team selection (2 2nd team selections), 3 NCAA all American selections (1st 2nd 3rd teams) and lead the league in assists (per game and total) 8 times while being second in points twice.

Deron Williams?... Please, he wishes he had that type of a career. Lol

all those accolades are pretty much thanks to bill russell. the titles are meaningless (since he would have zero anywhere else), the all nba teams are relatively meaningless (just look at who he was competing against to earn them), and one of the most undeserved MVP's in basketball history since he wasnt even the best player on his own team. also not sure why you brought up NCAA stuff that has nothing to do with the nba. so yeah, just go look up his all-nba teams and tell me if you even recognize the names of the people on the 2nd team.

notice how the celtics accomplished pretty much nothing before russell got there, and then all of a sudden they are winning titles, and playing GOAT defense. the offense was the same, but russell made their defense so good that they just dominated. cousy was just kind of there and wasnt bad so he wasnt messing things up, dont confuse this with being good though.

cousy was nowhere near as good as deron williams, just a straight up inferior basketball player, accolades have absolutely nothing to do with this because they played two very different careers.

[Draginho]

Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Isiah
Nash
Kidd
Payton

[kblo247]

Magic
Isiah - something to say about winning
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd (was a better overall player with his versatility, better leader, better winner)
Nash - Payton (put them on equal terms, Nash's O was terrific, like his D, but Payton got his teams farther with less)

[leolozon]

Magic
Isiah - something to say about winning
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd (was a better overall player with his versatility, better leader, better winner)
Nash - Payton (put them on equal terms, Nash's O was terrific, like his D, but Payton got his teams farther with less)

Wow! I'm surprised, but I think this is pretty fair.

I'm thinking :
Magic
Stockton
Oscar (inflated stats because of the era)
Kidd-Nash-Thomas

I really can't decide between the last three. I think Isiah was the most talented one and his peak was clearly the highest, but I think you have to reward longevity. Nash kept being an all-star in his late 30s.

Also, I think Nash O's is just too much ahead of Kidd. If Nash was given the ball earlier, his stats would be so much better than Kidd. Offense = Nash over Kidd, defense = Kidd over Nash. Kidd is shooting .400 for his career. They will end up with the same APG average and Nash did it in 5 minutes less per game.
Kidd was better from age 22 to 27. I think Nash was better at 28, then Kidd had a better season at 29. And then I think it's pretty much all Nash from 30 to 38. So if you compare them at the same age, I think Kidd was better for 7 seasons and Nash better for 10 seasons... Next season, he will also be better than Kidd is right now.

[Slava]

Kidd - versatility, better leader and winner? lol, I'm a big Jason Kidd fan but only thing he has edge over Nash is his defense. Nash is likely the 3rd greatest point guard of all time.

[JohnVancouver]

1. Magic 2. Stockton 3. Robertson 4. Thomas 5. Cousy 6. Kidd 7. Nash
That's really fair when you take championships, all-stars, MVPs, stats and all league teams into account.

cousy? really? he doesnt belong remotely near a top point guard list. hes not even better than deron williams all time.

anyways i would say its something like

1. Magic
2. Nash/Oscar
3. Oscar/Nash
4. Frazier
5. Chris Paul
6. Stockton
7. Thomas/Payton/etc

oscar is hard to rank, and i think hes more like lebron than an actual point guard. strictly on offense, nash and magic are far and away the 2 greatest point guards ever.

This - but Cousy deserves to be up there - he changed the game for PGs . No one had ever seen that kind of play before. I think CP needs a little more time to build a body of work before he gets in. Certainly in the running though

[JohnVancouver]

Magic
Isiah - something to say about winning
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd (was a better overall player with his versatility, better leader, better winner)
Nash - Payton (put them on equal terms, Nash's O was terrific, like his D, but Payton got his teams farther with less)

Wow! I'm surprised, but I think this is pretty fair.

I'm thinking :
Magic
Stockton
Oscar (inflated stats because of the era)
Kidd-Nash-Thomas

I really can't decide between the last three. I think Isiah was the most talented one and his peak was clearly the highest, but I think you have to reward longevity. Nash kept being an all-star in his late 30s.

Also, I think Nash O's is just too much ahead of Kidd. If Nash was given the ball earlier, his stats would be so much better than Kidd. Offense = Nash over Kidd, defense = Kidd over Nash. Kidd is shooting .400 for his career. They will end up with the same APG average and Nash did it in 5 minutes less per game.
Kidd was better from age 22 to 27. I think Nash was better at 28, then Kidd had a better season at 29. And then I think it's pretty much all Nash from 30 to 38. So if you compare them at the same age, I think Kidd was better for 7 seasons and Nash better for 10 seasons... Next season, he will also be better than Kidd is right now.

Inflated stats for Oscar? How, pre-expansion?

[LA_Sports]

ok Lets look at the all NBA teams... You know who was on the 2nd team every year while Cousy was on the first team? BILL RUSSEL. So I guess Russel wasn't the only reason they won those championships. Hate to break it to you great teams are filled with great players.

With your logic means that Jamaal Wilkes, Cooper, or Kareem should be looked upon as lesser players because they couldn't win in L.A. till Magic showed up. So their contributions to the championships are not that important.

If you actually look at the 1st and 2nd teams during the era Cousy played they are filled with Hall of Fame players, your point that they somehow don't matter to you because you don't know the names of players that played the game 60+ years ago is irrelevant. 60 years from now if people don't easily recognize the name Gary Payton it doesn't mean he wasn't great during his time.

Accolades have most to due when comparing players across eras. How else can you compare them besides saying, "I think he looks better" (when you never watched one of them play). Saying he just was a better athlete knowing that availability of modern medicine and training techniques were not around during Cousy's era is the flimsiest argument you can have.
You cant go from saying Russel brought "GOAT" defense based on his accolades and then say his teammates accolades don't matter. At the end of a career all that is left are accolades and that how players judge each other.

They did have two VERY DIFFERENT careers. Which one would you rather have?

[Slava]

I think even Bill Russell went on record saying that Cousy did not have the heart and determination needed to win every game like Russell did. Cousy would coast through most games until Russell made it clear that he needs to pull his head out and make plays.

Difference between Cousy and Jerry West, the two best guards of that era was quite large by any historian's perspective.

[LA_Sports]

I am just gonna leave it at this... If you go by what most historians, experts, and players say the have Cousy higher than Nash by a margin of a couple players. Look it up for yourself, it is not hard to find numerous greatest pg lists that all have Cousy higher.

Cousy for his career average more PPG, RPG and averaged the same amount of assists as Nash.
Nash only has one extra league MVP... That's it.
No fault on Nash, but don't detract other players greatness.

Besides the careers of West and Cousy were at different times. Cousy started 10 years earlier. Thats like comparing young Kobe to old Jordan because they were in the league together. They shared the league for 3 years.

[BlackBerry]

Nash in my opinion is overrated. Is he a crafty PG yes, but right now I would pick Mario Chalmers over him.