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I've been wondering this for a while and I've come to the conclusion Steve Nash is not a top 20 PG anymore. Here's a list of the PGs who are without question better than him.

Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams, John Wall, Damien Lillard, Ty Lawson, Kyrie Irving, Jrue Holiday, Steph curry, Mike Conley.

That's already 13 guys we can all agree on are way better than Nash. Both offensively and Defensively.

Next are the guys who in my opinion are better than Nash, guys who I would rather have as the lakers starting pg over Nash.

Ricky Rubio, Kemba Walker, Raymond Felton, Eric Bledsoe, Grevis Vazquez, Jeff Teague, Mario Chalmers.

That's 20 guys already. In my opinion all of these Point Guards mentioned are all better than Nash. When people in the media bring up the lakers upcoming season they say things like " lakers still have Kobe, Pau and Nash. They won't be that bad" Do they not realize you can't bring Nash up as a positive anymore! He's not even a top 20 pg. he's now a below average starting PG. and how much are the lakers paying him? And he's under contract for another year? Here's also some PGs I didn't mention but can be better than Nash as well.

Trey Burke, Jose Calderon, Darren Collison, Goran Dragic, George Hill, Jarrett Jack, Jeremy Lin, Jameer Nelson, Isaiah Thomas, Mo Williams.

If you agree all of these guys are better than Nash as well, that puts Nash as the 34th ranked PG in the league.

PGs today are better than they've ever been, and it's easily the deepest position with the best players.

With that being said, Nash may not be a top 20 PG when you factor defense into the equation. He's never been a defensive player, and has always been known as a guy you put pieces around and play around him. Nash is still a top 15-20 PG when it comes to passing/shooting. When it comes to defense, he's one of the worst.

I agree with your top 13. Overall as a pg I'd say no to these guys being better: Kemba, Felton, Bledsoe, Vazquez, Teague. The deciding factor is Nash's offense, court vision, and "generalship" just far outweighs their overall game despite their obvious defensive advantages.

I guess it is situational though. Nash must be surrounded with young athletic players to beast. And obviously, with me being a Laker fan I'm blaming Nash's bad year to his broken leg rather than age (*edited). Meaning I think he'll have a much stronger year this year.

Yes. You're right. When you take away his Hall of Fame strengths and make an argument based off of his weaknesses, then yes, Nash is one of the worst starting PGs in the league.

As WWJBD stated, it's situational. When you factor in that he's playing next to a guy like Kobe and is in turn becoming more of a spot-up shooter, then you have to look more at his shooting percentages than his assist numbers, which were still stellar. The guy was adjusting and injured all season, it was a down year, but I look for him to get his scoring numbers and assists back up.

But to take out intangibles, such as leadership, BBIQ, and court vision, I still like him on my team.

If you just want a one man fastbreak, go for a Bledsoe...but no way in hell is he a better POINT GUARD than Steve Nash.

Chalmers? lol. Really?

Dwight's out, PnR is in, and he's got experience playing beside Kobe and Pau now. I'd be really surprised if this is a valid point even a month into the season.

Desiderium wrote:Chalmers? lol. Really?

Chalmers is a way better defender than Nash, and on this lakers team from what we've seen, Nash is only used to basically spot up, wouldn't you rather have Chalmers who's contract is nowhere near how bad Nash's contract is

Jakay wrote:Dwight's out, PnR is in, and he's got experience playing beside Kobe and Pau now. I'd be really surprised if this is a valid point even a month into the season.

You do know he's 40 years old and has most likely only gotten worse since last season?

crazyeights wrote:Yes. You're right. When you take away his Hall of Fame strengths and make an argument based off of his weaknesses, then yes, Nash is one of the worst starting PGs in the league.

As WWJBD stated, it's situational. When you factor in that he's playing next to a guy like Kobe and is in turn becoming more of a spot-up shooter, then you have to look more at his shooting percentages than his assist numbers, which were still stellar. The guy was adjusting and injured all season, it was a down year, but I look for him to get his scoring numbers and assists back up.

But to take out intangibles, such as leadership, BBIQ, and court vision, I still like him on my team.

If you just want a one man fastbreak, go for a Bledsoe...but no way in hell is he a better POINT GUARD than Steve Nash.

Ok, then how about if i asked you, With this current Lakers team who would you rather have this upcoming season running the point, Bledsoe or Nash?

redjays wrote:

Jakay wrote:Dwight's out, PnR is in, and he's got experience playing beside Kobe and Pau now. I'd be really surprised if this is a valid point even a month into the season.

You do know he's 40 years old and has most likely only gotten worse since last season?

And was pretty hurt all season long yes. If he keeps breaking down because he's a bit older, then not only will this thread be valid, it'll be moot.

redjays wrote:
If you agree all of these guys are better than Nash as well, that puts Nash as the 34th ranked PG in the league.

gtfo with this propaganda.

IMO nash is still a top 20 PG in this league...but it doesnt say much considering there are only 30 teams in the NBA...which would mean that approximately half the NBA teams have a better PG than Nash.
Based on his play and health next season, who knows, he can be a top 10-15 on the offensive end atleast but I doubt it.

also its not about nash being bad, its about kobe being so ball dominant....put mike conley on the lakers and nash on the grizzlies and I wouldnt be surprised if conley becomes an instant scrub and nash puts up 17/11...the situations matter too.

Jakay wrote:Dwight's out, PnR is in, and he's got experience playing beside Kobe and Pau now. I'd be really surprised if this is a valid point even a month into the season.

Kobe and Nash PnR did damage whenever they ran it, I hope they go to it more often this season.

redjays wrote:

crazyeights wrote:Yes. You're right. When you take away his Hall of Fame strengths and make an argument based off of his weaknesses, then yes, Nash is one of the worst starting PGs in the league.

As WWJBD stated, it's situational. When you factor in that he's playing next to a guy like Kobe and is in turn becoming more of a spot-up shooter, then you have to look more at his shooting percentages than his assist numbers, which were still stellar. The guy was adjusting and injured all season, it was a down year, but I look for him to get his scoring numbers and assists back up.

But to take out intangibles, such as leadership, BBIQ, and court vision, I still like him on my team.

If you just want a one man fastbreak, go for a Bledsoe...but no way in hell is he a better POINT GUARD than Steve Nash.

Ok, then how about if i asked you, With this current Lakers team who would you rather have this upcoming season running the point, Bledsoe or Nash?

Considering MDA is our coach, Nash. Veteran leadership, elite shooting, clutch, and a gamer, and if he sucks next season, we likely get a lottery pick out of it. Win-win.

We will all see and enjoy a different Nash next year... He will impose his will on the team and be a leader... He deferred to Kobe too much last year...

One Love wrote:We will all see and enjoy a different Nash next year... He will impose his will on the team and be a leader... He deferred to Kobe too much last year...

I really hope this is true. When Nash was injured with the leg in the beginning of the season people said that when he comes back with mike d as coach he was gonna kill. Look how that turned out

redjays wrote:

One Love wrote:We will all see and enjoy a different Nash next year... He will impose his will on the team and be a leader... He deferred to Kobe too much last year...

I really hope this is true. When Nash was injured with the leg in the beginning of the season people said that when he comes back with mike d as coach he was gonna kill. Look how that turned out

That wasn't on Nash. We never found a way to get Kobe/Dwight/Nash/Pau firing on all cylinders. Though when we'd have 3 of them, things would look fine. With Dwight gone it means we can do more pick-and-roll, more MDA-style offense, rather than getting Dwight post touches.

This also places Pau in a role with more responsibility and he's gonna flourish. Nash will both feed into and feed off of that. So long as he's healthy.

redjays wrote:

Desiderium wrote:Chalmers? lol. Really?

Chalmers is a way better defender than Nash, and on this lakers team from what we've seen, Nash is only used to basically spot up, wouldn't you rather have Chalmers who's contract is nowhere near how bad Nash's contract is

Ummm... NO!

That's crazy talk... Chalmers having a better contract =/= Chalmers better than Nash.

lake_show wrote:

redjays wrote:

Desiderium wrote:Chalmers? lol. Really?

Chalmers is a way better defender than Nash, and on this lakers team from what we've seen, Nash is only used to basically spot up, wouldn't you rather have Chalmers who's contract is nowhere near how bad Nash's contract is

Ummm... NO!

That's crazy talk... Chalmers having a better contract =/= Chalmers better than Nash.

Well that's your opinion. For the upcoming season I'd rather have chalmers running the point instead of Nash based on what I saw this past season. You are what you are, Nash is 40, you know he's gonna miss 20 games or more.