The 7th Pick

mjba · Post #1 » by **mjba** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 2:29 pm

we're picking 7. new poll.

obviously not all of these guys will be on the board.

again, assume:

Wiggins
Embiid
Parker
Exum

...are off the board, who ya got? NOTE: you can trade the pick if you'd like, but be realistic.

edit: poll added. just used DX's most recent mock.

Fresh360Waves · Post #2 » by **Fresh360Waves** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 3:24 pm

I really like Kyle Anderson. He's such a smooth player and doesn't force the issue like many young players. Reminds me of Andre Miller but a wing version. Isn't the most athletic guy out there, but makes up for it with his IQ and length.

Mirjalovic · Post #3 » by **Mirjalovic** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 3:41 pm

BPA ? Kevin Love. (if possible of course)

ROballer · Post #4 » by **ROballer** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 3:49 pm

We're not getting Love with the 7th pick..that shouldn't even be an option in the poll

OP stated "you can trade the pick if you'd like, but be realistic."....and managed to put up the Love trade in the poll :lol:

TonyMontana · Post #5 » by **TonyMontana** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 3:50 pm

Im just waiting for a "The 9th or 10th pick" thread before I answer. lol

cashflo · Post #6 » by **cashflo** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 6:04 pm

0-9 to finish the season with some help from the other tank teams is what we need!

Come on Tank! Don't let me down!

Tiesto_Lakers · Post #7 » by **Tiesto_Lakers** » Tue Apr 1, 2014 10:35 pm

For me it goes Ennis, Anderson, Vonleh in that order.

How does the lottery even work? I know there are 1000 balls, do they just simply take out the first ball and call that the #1 pick, the next ball that isn't the team that got #1 is the #2 pick? Sorry if that was way off.

AdonisDeMarion · Post #8 » by **AdonisDeMarion** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 12:29 am

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:For me it goes Ennis, Anderson, Vonleh in that order.

How does the lottery even work? I know there are 1000 balls, do they just simply take out the first ball and call that the #1 pick, the next ball that isn't the team that got #1 is the #2 pick? Sorry if that was way off.

now you have me thinking about it too, but I like your picks, I like Anderson's game

mjba · Post #9 » by **mjba** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 12:38 am

ROballer wrote:We're not getting Love with the 7th pick..that shouldn't even be an option in the poll

OP stated "you can trade the pick if you'd like, but be realistic."....and managed to put up the Love trade in the poll

hi mate, i've actually already addressed this in another thread - with you, in fact (lol) - but you're probably right.

anyway, will c&p my conversation w you so others will understand the thinking a bit better

ROballer wrote:I meant this years pick when I said building through the draft....

Won't trade a top 4 pick under any circumstances for Love.....after that, even if I'd want to,Minny won't accept the trade

Let's just stop the nonsense for a little bit...everyone around here acts like it's a given should we approach the Wolvez,that they will say yes,at every pick we throw at them...when in reality,they would probably accept a 1-3 pick

mjba wrote:^
right, and that may well be the case, but the whole thread is kinda predicated on the fact that the wolves need to trade him - again, perhaps not the case, but presumably they'd have a pretty good idea about that. and i think the number 6 pick in this draft is an okay return in that event

ROballer wrote:They probably can do better than that

Some guys pegged Love in this thread as the 3rd best player in the league....don't think you can score that with a 6th pick,c'mon now,there will be other suitors for him....that's if he gives clear indications of leaving and forcing Minny's hand,which he hasn't done until now

mjba wrote:again, you might be right, but i think the options will be pretty limited in the sense that the team has to be pretty freaking confident (one would think) that he would resign w them. not sure you could say that about any of the teams below us in the lottery - and probably not too many above (w requisite assets).

i agree that it's pretty crappy return for a top 10-15 player in the league, but what else is out there?

again, keeping in mind the bold, what else is out there? at this point in the previous thread you simply said that you wouldn't risk trading for Love cus you couldn't be sure he'd resign - again, totally fair point - but didn't come up w an answer to what's a better alternative for the 'wolves. if he does want to go exclusively to a 'big market' - which i find pretty hard to believe (and stupid), personally - the 7th pick in this draft is a better asset than anything the Knicks or Bulls can offer any time soon.

anyway re the possibility of the trade this year, i guess it depends how much the wolves value the guys available at 7. if they think they'll be someone there who can be a future all-star, and Love's going to leave anyway - again, they probably have pretty good idea about that (that said, never underestimate the ego of the GM/FO) - then maybe it's not such a bad return.

the part that is **** for them - and us - is that, best case scenario, they can only really get one valuable piece from us. i think that, more than whether the pick is at 5 or 7, will be the reason we can't get him in a trade.

ROballer · Post #10 » by **ROballer** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 4:54 am

Lol,who cares what Love wants....why would the Wolvez care where Love wants to end up if he asks a trade?
The chips are in the Wolvez' hands,not Love's....if he wants a trade Minny will send him where they will get the most assets back,and you have to be plain stupid to think you can score Love for a 7th pick,especially after you made a point of who would realistically be available at that pick

It ain't happenin' brother,there's no point in even arguing this
As far as other possible scenarios for a trade,I'm not going to wrap my brain around this right now,but rest assured,Minny will get way better offers than the 7th pick in a draft ,even with the risk of Love bolting in FA a year later

supaflash · Post #11 » by **supaflash** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 6:27 am

it's an interesting dilemma for sure. Obviously if it could be moved for a true proven player like Irving or Love you would have to do that, preferably Irving to entice Love to sign.

That however is unrealistic. The other option is to trade down for multiple picks or a lesser player and picks. I'm not sure there is a lesser player or role player I would want from anyone at the moment so I'd prefer two picks. If you could potentially get a Stauskas and Capella or something like that later that could be a great snag. Or Lavine and Anderson. Any combo of those guys could be a great pickup. All of them could go higher but also might be available with later picks.

Given what you've said though of whose off the board, give me Gordon all day. I just really have a feeling he is going to be very good. I think his floor is Marion or Faried, while his ceiling could be Paul George or Griffin. He could end up like a smarter Odom. He has a couple flaws but he ended the season with the smae 3PT % as Parker and he's bigger and more athletic then Parker and a much better defender, huge hands and strong athletic body. Good passer and ball handler and his stroke is ok. In tangibles he lives and breathes basketball, is a winner, hates losing, very coachable, smart on court and off.

I would also have to take a long hard look at Clint Capela, potential through the roof and seems to work hard. Has some rawness about him but he's Vonleh's size with Gordon's athleticism. He's like a slightly bigger Ibaka. He needs some work but he's really solid in what he has so far.

Vonleh will be a good pro I think. Kid works really hard and has all the tools. Seems a little shy and maybe not the brightest but a good kid. Great shooting stroke, true NBA PF body and length, decent quickness as well. I think he will be a solid pro and wouldn't be sad by the pick.

It's a little high for him but then Stauskas, kid is going to be a really good player imo. Great shooter, great scorer, crafty, athletic, good size for a SG, great passer, and just knows how to play. He'll be a better version of Reddick imo. Needs some work defensively but he's not incapable.

Lastly, he has some attitude issues and I'm not sure why he's more projected for next year, he may have a contract issue, but I'm going to throw Mario Hezonja out there, kid might be right there in that Parker/Wiggins realm, size athletic and skill all over for a young kid.

DwnShft2Xcelr8 · Post #12 » by **DwnShft2Xcelr8** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 9:18 am

Can we all just hope the NBA rigs the draft? Adam Silver should make sure the Lakers have the #1 pick in this draft.

mjba · Post #13 » by **mjba** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 9:54 am

ROballer wrote:Lol,who cares what Love wants....why would the Wolvez care where Love wants to end up if he asks a trade?
The chips are in the Wolvez' hands,not Love's....if he wants a trade Minny will send him where they will get the most assets back,and you have to be plain stupid to think you can score Love for a 7th pick,especially after you made a point of who would realistically be available at that pick

It ain't happenin' brother,there's no point in even arguing this
As far as other possible scenarios for a trade,I'm not going to wrap my brain around this right now,but rest assured,Minny will get way better offers than the 7th pick in a draft ,even with the risk of Love bolting in FA a year later

right, well you pretty much ignored everything that i said and created your own narrative. i don't post much here so i guess that's something i'll have to get used to, ha.

it has nothing to do w Minnesota; if Love's agent is telling teams that he wants to go to NY (who can sign him outright), LA (ditto) or Chicago exclusively, then it would be absolutely ridiculous for any team to offer anything more than the 7th pick for him. it only takes one, though, so you might be right. i'm just saying it is not totallly inconceivable that we are their best option - which is really the only point that i have been trying to make ha

mjba · Post #14 » by **mjba** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 10:15 am

supaflash wrote:it's an interesting dilemma for sure. Obviously if it could be moved for a true proven player like Irving or Love you would have to do that, preferably Irving to entice Love to sign.

That however is unrealistic. The other option is to trade down for multiple picks or a lesser player and picks. I'm not sure there is a lesser player or role player I would want from anyone at the moment so I'd prefer two picks. If you could potentially get a Stauskas and Capella or something like that later that could be a great snag. Or Lavine and Anderson. Any combo of those guys could be a great pickup. All of them could go higher but also might be available with later picks.

Given what you've said though of whose off the board, give me Gordon all day. I just really have a feeling he is going to be very good. I think his floor is Marion or Faried, while his ceiling could be Paul George or Griffin. He could end up like a smarter Odom. He has a couple flaws but he ended the season with the smae 3PT % as Parker and he's bigger and more athletic then Parker and a much better defender, huge hands and strong athletic body. Good passer and ball handler and his stroke is ok. In tangibles he lives and breathes basketball, is a winner, hates losing, very coachable, smart on court and off.

I would also have to take a long hard look at Clint Capela, potential through the roof and seems to work hard. Has some rawness about him but he's Vonleh's size with Gordon's athleticism. He's like a slightly bigger Ibaka. He needs some work but he's really solid in what he has so far.

Vonleh will be a good pro I think. Kid works really hard and has all the tools. Seems a little shy and maybe not the brightest but a good kid. Great shooting stroke, true NBA PF body and length, decent quickness as well. I think he will be a solid pro and wouldn't be sad by the pick.

It's a little high for him but then Stauskas, kid is going to be a really good player imo. Great shooter, great scorer, crafty, athletic, good size for a SG, great passer, and just knows how to play. He'll be a better version of Reddick imo. Needs some work defensively but he's not incapable.

Lastly, he has some attitude issues and I'm not sure why he's more projected for next year, he may have a contract issue, but I'm going to throw Mario Hezonja out there, kid might be right there in that Parker/Wiggins realm, size athletic and skill all over for a young kid.

nice analysis.

is there even a team that has multiple mid-late round #1s? not hating, i honestly don't know.

i'll preface these comments by saying that i (definitely) haven't seen enough of these guys to pass judgement.

i think it's interesting that you think that of Gordon because i would honestly say that i haven't seen anything from him that indicates he'll be v good. obviously, he looks pretty good on paper, but in the games i've seen he often looks lost on offence. good passer and defender, though, i agree. if he ends up as a 'smart Lamar' he'll be one of the best players in the L, IMO.

i like Stauskas a lot too, but i think you have to aim a bit higher at 7 considering in the situation that we're currently in.

i like the idea of Anderson, but i've only seen UCLA once this year.

my pick would be Vonleh, who - based on my limited viewing/reading - looks like a prototypical NBA PF of the future and a solid building block.

i wonder if the FO would be even considering the fit of potential FAs in 2015-2016 when looking at this year's draft? you'd hope not, but maybe it's conceivable?

edit: just realised i didn't even have Vonleh in my poll. it was late when i made it, ha. fixed

ROballer · Post #15 » by **ROballer** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 11:43 am

mjba wrote:
ROballer wrote:Lol,who cares what Love wants....why would the Wolvez care where Love wants to end up if he asks a trade?
The chips are in the Wolvez' hands,not Love's....if he wants a trade Minny will send him where they will get the most assets back,and you have to be plain stupid to think you can score Love for a 7th pick,especially after you made a point of who would realistically be available at that pick

It ain't happenin' brother,there's no point in even arguing this
As far as other possible scenarios for a trade,I'm not going to wrap my brain around this right now,but rest assured,Minny will get way better offers than the 7th pick in a draft ,even with the risk of Love bolting in FA a year later

right, well you pretty much ignored everything that i said and created your own narrative. i don't post much here so i guess that's something i'll have to get used to, ha.

it has nothing to do w Minnesota; if Love's agent is telling teams that he wants to go to NY (who can sign him outright), LA (ditto) or Chicago exclusively, then it would be absolutely ridiculous for any team to offer anything more than the 7th pick for him. it only takes one, though, so you might be right. i'm just saying it is not totallly inconceivable that we are their best option - which is really the only point that i have been trying to make ha

A lot of ifs buddy....Dwight's agent didn't do that,what makes you think Love's will?There will be no such thing
And if Love does request a trade,Minny will try to get what's best from them,not for Love...they could care less that Love wants a big market

As far as the other teams,I can pretty much guarantee a team will offer more than the 7th pick ,with the assumption Love won't turn down a guaranteed 30 mil next summer.I am absolutely certain of this

And there's no incentive for Love's agent to ask for a trade to the Lakers in the first place,have you seen our roster?It's a worst situation than he has in Minny,I don't think the fact he grew up here will make up for the other deficiencies
New York or Chicago I can see.Lakers not in the current situation(talking all hypothetically here,won't happen....but for the sake of the argument)

That's the **** point....at least pry him with the pick we have this year,in the summer of 2015.A foundation,anything
If we trade for Love now we don't have anything to put besides him...no pick,no cap space until 2016,nothing
I'm sure he loves the city,weather,etc....but it would be a terrible situation for him bball wise...would be Dwight 2.0 all over again,esp if both New York and Chicago will have cap space to give him the max in 2015

mjba · Post #16 » by **mjba** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 12:43 pm

ROballer wrote:
mjba wrote:
ROballer wrote:Lol,who cares what Love wants....why would the Wolvez care where Love wants to end up if he asks a trade?
The chips are in the Wolvez' hands,not Love's....if he wants a trade Minny will send him where they will get the most assets back,and you have to be plain stupid to think you can score Love for a 7th pick,especially after you made a point of who would realistically be available at that pick

It ain't happenin' brother,there's no point in even arguing this
As far as other possible scenarios for a trade,I'm not going to wrap my brain around this right now,but rest assured,Minny will get way better offers than the 7th pick in a draft ,even with the risk of Love bolting in FA a year later

right, well you pretty much ignored everything that i said and created your own narrative. i don't post much here so i guess that's something i'll have to get used to, ha.

it has nothing to do w Minnesota; if Love's agent is telling teams that he wants to go to NY (who can sign him outright), LA (ditto) or Chicago exclusively, then it would be absolutely ridiculous for any team to offer anything more than the 7th pick for him. it only takes one, though, so you might be right. i'm just saying it is not totallly inconceivable that we are their best option - which is really the only point that i have been trying to make ha

A lot of ifs buddy....Dwight's agent didn't do that,what makes you think Love's will?There will be no such thing
And if Love does request a trade,Minny will try to get what's best from them,not for Love...they could care less that Love wants a big market

As far as the other teams,I can pretty much guarantee a team will offer more than the 7th pick ,with the assumption Love won't turn down a guaranteed 30 mil next summer.I am absolutely certain of this

And there's no incentive for Love's agent to ask for a trade to the Lakers in the first place,have you seen our roster?It's a worst situation than he has in Minny,I don't think the fact he grew up here will make up for the other deficiencies
New York or Chicago I can see.Lakers not in the current situation

That's the **** point....at least pry him with the pick we have this year,in the summer of 2015.A foundation,anything
If we trade for Love now we don't have anything to put besides him...no pick,no cap space until 2016,nothing
I'm sure he loves the city,weather,etc....but it would be a terrible situation for him bball wise...would be Dwight 2.0 all over again,esp if both New York and Chicago will have cap space to give him the max in 2015

mannnnnnnnnnnnn. i don't even dsagree w half of the **** you're saying. i watch the nba too. i have league pass. i just started a thread on RGM ffs... i understand the positions of both team etc. just don't say you're 'certain' about stuff like this. i'm not certain that i will wake up tomorrow morning. you even talk about the idea of 'dwight 2.0'.... in the same post! baha. as in, that whole scenario was pretty sucky? you think other teams didn't see that? that wasn't on national TV in the other 49 states (and one country)? that is pretty much the worst case scenario for a NBA franchise at the moment so please don't say you're 'certain' about a team giving up a better than the 7th pick in a potentially loaded draft for a potential one year rental, unless it's for LBJ.

i am simply saying that i don't presume to know how or why - or even if - Kevin Love desperately wants to be here (the whole thing is predicated on the fact that he does want to be here. as in, if he doesn't the whole thing is moot -- which is why this argument is so **** stupid.) but if he does, he would want the $30million. obviously. that would be the incentive. again, maybe that's not incentive enough to want to play for a team w no prospects? perhaps he'd rather we keep the pick and be happy to take less money to sign here? how the **** would i know? i don't presume to know. but there's obviously an incentive there if that's where he wants to eat, sleep, ****, drive, surf, play golf, whatever the ****, as well as play basketball.

even if you just said "until we hear more/(mostly)work out where we're picking, the situation is so unlikely that it's not worth discussing", that would be perfectly fine. or "'X' team has better package for the wolves and 'A' is why". but you totally disregard what i say and counter w straw mans. just be reasonable.

i promise everyone i'll stop replying now. stepped my post-count up though

madmaxmedia · Post #17 » by **madmaxmedia** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 4:17 pm

Many high profile trades are lopsided in player value, and swing on many other factors. So what it would take to get Love just depends on how much Minnesota wants to move him (they may not want to at all), and what their long-term plans are.

I would trade #7 in a second for Love, even if we knew LA was Love's #1 landing spot next offseason. If you really miss that pick, just close your eyes and imagine that we just drafted Wesley Johnson or Xavier Henry with the pick.

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #18 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 8:20 pm

Suppose the Celtics are drafting 6 and don't want Smart who is still available. If the Celtics are going to draft and trade Smart what should the Lakers offer in addition to the 7th pick in order to move up to the 6th spot and draft Smart?

Post #19 » by **Slava** » Wed Apr 2, 2014 11:20 pm

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Suppose the Celtics are drafting 6 and don't want Smart who is still available. If the Celtics are going to draft and trade Smart what should the Lakers offer in addition to the 7th pick in order to move up to the 6th spot and draft Smart?

Nothing. We only have Kobe, Nash & Sacre on contract.

Dr Aki · Post #20 » by **Dr Aki** » Thu Apr 3, 2014 2:25 am

if minnesota wanted value for love, they should've traded him before love had all the negotiating power.

if minny doesnt trade love wherever he wants (list of teams etc...), he just threatens to opt out and leave for nothing, especially considering his list of teams includes teams that can sign him outright.

hence, love is negotiating from a position of power, not minny. this is negotiations 101

minny can send him anywhere they want. but teams won't offer much if they can't get a guarantee of an extension out of love.

if minny wants value, they trade him like NO traded paul, utah traded deron, like denver traded melo. not like orlando did with dwight (waiting for better deals that never came). the price is set by the market and then it's simple supply and demand economics.

teams who love doesn't want won't offer much, teams that love wants can sign him for free and won't offer much. demand is high, but the price is artificially capped by love's ability to opt out

this is a well worn playbook because it works. in recent memory, the only way you take this away is you take away unrestricted free agency (ie. restricted free agency for all), which was something the NBAPA nearly 40 years ago in labour relations, the right of an employee to choose their employer

it's a little different with dwight because love is threatening to decline a PO, which means declining the option and signing as a max FA (4 yrs) is exactly the same as agreeing an extension of 3 years if he get's traded.

love, unlike dwight, doesnt have to wait until the following summer to get 4 years.

Who would you pick at #7?