RealGM

Great article posted on ESPN that sort of sums up our fan base as whole this year. Please read and respond.
Some excerpts:

The independence of these two cliques has never been secret. There are fans who care first and foremost about the franchise, and there are fans who see the franchise first and foremost as a vehicle for Kobe’s greatness.

In my opinion, Kobe wasn’t speaking so much to the front office as to the fans. He even cited them while explaining the premium placed on winning: “A lot of times it's hard to understand that message if you're not a die-hard Laker fan." Bryant, himself a Lakers fan growing up, is too smart and calculated for this phrasing to be incidental. It felt like a call to arms for fans to voice mutual displeasure over operating at anything less than “Championship or bust.” And for every Kobe-first fan who’ll stump on his behalf, who shares his impatience, who feels the organization “owes” him better than a swan song of mediocrity, there’s a Lakers-first fan who feels rebuilding the roster twice around Kobe between 2008 and 2013 equals a “debt” paid, especially after he wasn’t inclined to take an extension sacrificing “highest paid player in the NBA” status for increased cap flexibility so that ASAP rebuild would be easier. Frankly, there are Lakers fans who will blame Kobe if the rebuild takes an extended period of time.

Conversely, ignoring Bryant’s wishes could prompt bitterness from Kobe-first fans toward a franchise ultimately still close to their heart. However, that loyalty line has long been drawn in the sand, and Kobe twisting in the wind for two years (or milked for the financial windfall of a farewell tour) could be viewed as an unforgivable act. The transition to post-Mamba life will be tough for this crowd under the best of circumstances, much less messy ones.

Will it be the name on the front or the back of the jersey that matters most moving forward?

Article can be seen in it's entirety here:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -civil-war

Very good read, glad to see the K-Bros writing for ESPN again.

Where does this put me, a Kobe fan and Lakers fan equally??

Father Time wrote:Where does this put me, a Kobe fan and Lakers fan equally??

I asked myself the same question. It's a really tough situation to be in obviously. This article hit home for me.

Im on the line between both groups. Im god damn Switzerland.

I'm a Laker fan and not much of a Kobe fan but I dont feel he's wrong for saying the things he has in regards to winning. If he didn't cry to the media Pau trade doesn't happen and mgmt. cont. on course for that supposed Amare/Yao plan, imagine where we would be had that contiued.

I don't think the reality of the situation is all that dramatic.

I'm a Kobe fan, and I was a lakers fan before he was even in highschool. I think us, the fans on realgm and otherwise realize exactly what's going on. Hypercompetitive guy has spent almost two decades playing for the Lakers and wants to win. He is also very pridefull and dealing with the end of his career in sight, and he's not happy we're a lottery team.

The organization is doing what it can, while still trying to respect the guy who's given the vast majority of his adult life for the game, and the franchise.

Seems pretty clear to everyone. I also don't think there is a civil war, some fans just want the pick and some fans always want us to be in every game despite our record.

Beyond all that, the only real disrespect I see is from non lakers fans. We're all pretty chill despite some differences of opinion.

A good read. Thanks for sharing mang. As far as me, I root for the name in the front of the jersey not the back!

What bothers me the most is the Kobe fans who only push their pro-Kobe agendas and don't account for the franchise as a whole.

"Kobe deserves such a large contract, do you realize how much he has done for this franchise?"

^^^I see too many statements like this and most of the people who post it don't consider how much Kobe's contract hinders this franchise's future. I guess most of the Kobe fans will be weeded out once he retires in a couple of years.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kobe, but I like the Lakers franchise a whole lot more.

AI wrote:What bothers me the most is the Kobe fans who only push their pro-Kobe agendas and don't account for the franchise as a whole.

"Kobe deserves such a large contract, do you realize how much he has done for this franchise?"

^^^I see too many statements like this and most of the people who post it don't consider how much Kobe's contract hinders this franchise's future. I guess most of the Kobe fans will be weeded out once he retires in a couple of years.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kobe, but I like the Lakers franchise a whole lot more.

Yooo! AMEN!

I'm torn on this.. I was a Penny/Shaq Magic fan that followed Shaq to LA.. Then came to respect Kobe's insane work ethic & competitiveness so much that I remained a Lakers fan when Shaq left. But I can't imagine ever rooting for another team, even long after Kobe hangs em up.. On 1 hand I say don't sacrifice any more of the future to attempt to win in Kobe's window, on the other I question if it's really sacrificing the future at all.. Say we trade our lottery pick for Love or someone like that & it gives us a chance to win now.. Winning championships is what the Lakers are all about, & if trading our pick for an immediate impact player allows us to win championships, then we're showing all of the young stars with the potential to be the face of the franchise after Kobe retires that the tradition is still very much alive & this is the place to come if you want to win.. It's only sacrificing the future if it doesn't work..

LApwnd wrote:I'm a Laker fan and not much of a Kobe fan but I dont feel he's wrong for saying the things he has in regards to winning. If he didn't cry to the media Pau trade doesn't happen and mgmt. cont. on course for that supposed Amare/Yao plan, imagine where we would be had that contiued.

i think its ridiculous that anyone thinks the only reason the lakers made the pau trade was to make kobe happy after his tantrum months earlier.

AI wrote:What bothers me the most is the Kobe fans who only push their pro-Kobe agendas and don't account for the franchise as a whole.

"Kobe deserves such a large contract, do you realize how much he has done for this franchise?"

^^^I see too many statements like this and most of the people who post it don't consider how much Kobe's contract hinders this franchise's future. I guess most of the Kobe fans will be weeded out once he retires in a couple of years.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kobe, but I like the Lakers franchise a whole lot more.

Yup!! I agree........... A good example, is Shaq, Howard when they left Orlando and LA. Then Lebron. Etc.

Players come and go but the franchise is always there until they pull a B.S move like my Raiders did when they went back to Oakland but I was a fan of them even before they came to LA so I was bummed when they left but Im still a Raider fan.

A franchise that you root for is rich with history, tradition and in our case 16 championships that NO ONE PLAYER can ever compare too. Even though I grew up in LA county and now I reside in South Orange county. IM STILL REPPING MY CITY, THE PURPLE AND GOLD, THE LAKERS SHOWTIME and the THREEPEAT BAD BOYS and all the good and bad MY TEAM faces and has gone through. If I root for a player then Im a bandwagon fan. I go where my favorite player goes. So once he is done then what. I pick up another player to follow around like a homer.

$%&* THAT. Everybody know IM A L.A LAKER FAN!

While Im at it screaming P&G............... I just want to add &*%$ THE CLIPPERS!! LA will always belong to THE LAKERS.

Well if we can get championship as soon as possible im happy. Whats the point of rebuilding ? getting the ring(s).

If Kobe fans want Kobe last 2 years filled with championships run, wouldn't that good for the Lakers too ?

Kobe wins, Lakers wins, everyone happy. About the future ? Thats uncertain probability. Nobody guaranteed if we trade or let Kobe go we will go top again, or if Kobe stay that will hurt Lakers future.

Kobe too old ? Well deal with it, if thats so, lets stop dreaming about LeBron join us, this year he will hit 30 and crazy rebuilder wannabe will cry why dont we tank to get franchise player. We keep Kareem for years until he's over 40 years old.. and we didnt win championship until Kobe + Shaq duo mature enough. Be patient man, no need to rush a thing.

They build you up to break you down..... Kobe fans and Lakers fans are the SAME THING. The guy is just built differently, super work ethic and has an super ego. But then again thats what makes him who he is... One of the greatest to EVER DO IT!!!!

dockingsched wrote:

LApwnd wrote:I'm a Laker fan and not much of a Kobe fan but I dont feel he's wrong for saying the things he has in regards to winning. If he didn't cry to the media Pau trade doesn't happen and mgmt. cont. on course for that supposed Amare/Yao plan, imagine where we would be had that contiued.

i think its ridiculous that anyone thinks the only reason the lakers made the pau trade was to make kobe happy after his tantrum months earlier.

it helped them make it decision faster and you can't sit there and truly mgmt. wouldn't have cont. on with their plans to pursue amare/yao with having to deal with Kobe trade me fiasco that summer.

LApwnd wrote:

dockingsched wrote:

LApwnd wrote:I'm a Laker fan and not much of a Kobe fan but I dont feel he's wrong for saying the things he has in regards to winning. If he didn't cry to the media Pau trade doesn't happen and mgmt. cont. on course for that supposed Amare/Yao plan, imagine where we would be had that contiued.

i think its ridiculous that anyone thinks the only reason the lakers made the pau trade was to make kobe happy after his tantrum months earlier.

it helped them make it decision faster and you can't sit there and truly mgmt. wouldn't have cont. on with their plans to pursue amare/yao with having to deal with Kobe trade me fiasco that summer.

IDK, when Bynum was forced into the starting lineup because of the Kwame/Mihm injuries we were suddenly looking like a dark horse contender.

The Pau trade was something that they had been working on for a long time. Remember that meeting between Kobe and Pau in Spain?

Can't find much of a great article, but this from 2007 references it: http://lakernation.com/pau-gasol-demanding-trade-on-his-website-ala-kobe/

leeprettyp wrote:They build you up to break you down..... Kobe fans and Lakers fans are the SAME THING. The guy is just built differently, super work ethic and has an super ego. But then again thats what makes him who he is... One of the greatest to EVER DO IT!!!!

I respectfully disagree. I am one of those fans who cares more about the name on the front than the back. Sure, I'm a Kobe fan, but my fandom for him goes as far as his desire to be a Laker goes. Hypothetically speaking, if Kobe leaves the Lakers, I will no longer be a fan.
Yes, it's as simple as that. My loyalty for a player goes as far as their loyalty to my favorite franchise goes. Same thing with Shaq. I was a big fan of his during his LA days. Once he was traded, I no longer cared if he succeeded. Why would I? He isn't a Laker; therefore, his success does not translate to Lakers success, thus, no f#cks are given about it.
Other posters have explained it better. The difference between Lakers-first and Kobe-first fans is that us Lakers-first fans can't comprehend how a man expresses his desire to win more rings when he couldn't even be bothered to accept a smaller contract. When it's all said and done, the Lakers-first fans will stick around for decades to come; the Kobe-first fans will leave once he's retired unless the Lakers draft and/or sign (a) superstar(s) worth dedicating their cheers to.
That's a MAJOR DIFFERENCE, in my opinion.

dockingsched wrote:

LApwnd wrote:I'm a Laker fan and not much of a Kobe fan but I dont feel he's wrong for saying the things he has in regards to winning. If he didn't cry to the media Pau trade doesn't happen and mgmt. cont. on course for that supposed Amare/Yao plan, imagine where we would be had that contiued.

i think its ridiculous that anyone thinks the only reason the lakers made the pau trade was to make kobe happy after his tantrum months earlier.

Agreed, the main reason that trade was made was because Mitch didn't want to lose the momentum that was built by the team. If I recall their record was 25-11 when Bynum got hurt in Memphis. In their next 8 games they went 3-5 and Mitch had seen enough, the team was slipping. And everybody and their momma knew Pau was available. The Lakers made the move because they had the one resources that would help the Grizzlies.....cap relief.

Sometimes people forget that the team was up for sale too, but Heisley couldn't find an owner that would take him out of debt.