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I understand that it is only preseason and that Russell needs burn to get into the role he has the potential to fill....But the offense looked like it flowed better when he went down. Clarkson seemed very comfortable orchestrating the offense and hitting guys with open looks.(even denying kobe the ball for a better pass inside the paint).

By January i can see D'angelo starting but i just don't think his impact is maximized in the starting lineup. Our bench is in dire need of a distributor to help Lou move the ball and he would not be going head to head with guys that are going to eat Russell's lunch on a regular basis.

I could be completely wrong and he may come out of preseason making me look stupid but as of today this is how i feel.
thoughts?

If Clarkson was the starting PG then Russell would play the 2, it's as simple as that. Also you can't make that judgement based off four minutes of play.

its because clarkson is always on attack mode and is probably our best slasher who can drive to the rim at will. makes for easy kick out or drop passes. dangelo will develop his own way of making plays for others. patience padawan.

I don't believe it was about Russell specifically being out so much as roles being more clearly defined not having Clarkson, Kobe, and Russell all together.

Also, I didn't see it as Clarkson orchestrating so much as Kobe (particularly that great stretch when he was feeding Roy and Randle). Clarkson had the nice pass to Hibbert, IIRC, but it was a pass that Russell would have read and made even quicker. To be honest, as much as Clarkson has improved since his first days as a rookie, I don't see distributing being something that's very natural to him.

So, I do believe there's some bumps we're going to have to iron out with our starting lineup. We have essentially 4 players (Russell/Clarkson/Kobe/Randle) who could potentially create from the perimeter. Theoretically, Russell will be a much better off-ball player than Clarkson in terms of shooting. Clarkson is a slasher, so while he can make slashing cuts, it seems like he's best when he's driving to the basket.

Again, only 2 games in, and a totally new role, but Kobe's strength doesn't seem to be as a catch and shoot player. I don't blame him, he's simply not used to it. And until Randle can hit the 18 footer on a catch and shoot, he needs the ball to slash too....

Offensively we've got to figure out how to get the proper flow with 4 guys who essentially need the ball. Though I'd say Russell might be the one with the most off-ball potential (assuming Kobe doesn't start turning it on).

[Aside: so moving one of these 3 to the bench would then create the same problem on our bench. Lou/Swaggy/Clarkson (or Russell) will be the different side of the same coin. I think Lou has been great at creating foul opportunities, and maybe either Clarkson's slashing or Russell's passing/off-ball potential could work...but I'm not loving it. Damn we have a lot of ball-dominant players on this team.]

I don't think all 4 are compatible for some obvious and not so obvious reason. Randle wants to be Kobe/Melo so bad on the elbow. As soon as he touches the rock he wants to go into triple threat and attack. Clarkson and Russ are fine together but with Kobe in the mix the spacing is shot unless you play Russ off ball for most of it. Honestly this team will open up when Kobe retires. He's not going to change in year 20. Im prepared for ridiculous chucking anytime the team gets down by 8 or more.

Having a guy like Clarkson means that you are always in semi-transition, kind of like Westbrook for OKC. He covers so much distance so fast that by the time he takes the inbound and crosses half court he already sees a 3-2 on developing if the other team is not careful. That's usually great for a team that can make quick decisions and capitalize on those situations. I'd like to see him handle the ball more and Russell to work off of screens to get jumpers.

I've wanted to see Clarkson as the pg but with Russell at sg where I think he's better suited for right now

Clarkson has a year of running the offence at this level, and Russell has about one game under his belt, in one of the most heady positions available. Give it some time. Clarkson playing SG doesn't preclude him from bringing up the ball and setting up the offence, it will sort itself out.

Like Jakay said, PG is probably the toughest and most drawn out position to develop in the NBA. You have to give Russell time. With that said, I kind of wish Scott made Russell work for a starting spot. Whether he earns it by the end of preseason, after 5 games or at the end of the year, put the carrot ahead of him and let him go after it without opening him up to too much criticism.

nitetrain8603 wrote:Like Jakay said, PG is probably the toughest and most drawn out position to develop in the NBA. You have to give Russell time. With that said, I kind of wish Scott made Russell work for a starting spot. Whether he earns it by the end of preseason, after 5 games or at the end of the year, put the carrot ahead of him and let him go after it without opening him up to too much criticism.

I get wanting him to earn it, but how do we know he hasn't? And who is going to take it from him?

Huertas has been injured/getting his immigration status fixed. They want Lou coming off the bench....

Clarkson? They want to develop their chemistry. All I've read is about D'Angelo's leadership, anyway.

In the end: Jim Buss explicitly stated the goal for this year: to find a core going forward. So whether they win or lose, it's about developing the pieces we have. I'd have loved some old vet who has earned the spot already, and for D'lo to have to take it from him, but it's just not the situation we have presently.

I guess that's sort of the wonky part. Trying to juggle Clarkson/D with Kobe's twilight. But hey, if we went Okafor then we'd be having the same issues with he and Randle.

crazyeights wrote:

nitetrain8603 wrote:Like Jakay said, PG is probably the toughest and most drawn out position to develop in the NBA. You have to give Russell time. With that said, I kind of wish Scott made Russell work for a starting spot. Whether he earns it by the end of preseason, after 5 games or at the end of the year, put the carrot ahead of him and let him go after it without opening him up to too much criticism.

I get wanting him to earn it, but how do we know he hasn't? And who is going to take it from him?

Huertas has been injured/getting his immigration status fixed. They want Lou coming off the bench....

Clarkson? They want to develop their chemistry. All I've read is about D'Angelo's leadership, anyway.

In the end: Jim Buss explicitly stated the goal for this year: to find a core going forward. So whether they win or lose, it's about developing the pieces we have. I'd have loved some old vet who has earned the spot already, and for D'lo to have to take it from him, but it's just not the situation we have presently.

I guess that's sort of the wonky part. Trying to juggle Clarkson/D with Kobe's twilight. But hey, if we went Okafor then we'd be having the same issues with he and Randle.

In the end, I don't think it would be wise to play Clarkson and D'Lo together long term. What I would do is start Clarkson at PG with Kobe at SG.

Showcase Lou with DLo while DLo hides his weaknesses, then deal him. Hibbert is another candidate I hope this happens to.

One thing I don't like with Clarkson is his hairstyle. Everything else is just about ok.

I don't know how much we learned about Clarkson last season. But we defiantly learned a couple things

He is very talented
He has good instincts (gets tremendous offensive rebounds)
He is not a PG (in the traditional sense)

What we have learned from Russell in very limited time
He really is a special passed.

Russell has mountains of turnovers in the summer league. If you box score watch, he was terrible. But if you watched the game? Many of his turnovers were beautiful passes his teammates couldn't handle, or they never expected a pass to come.



Once his teamates realize to always expect a pass, the lakers will be better off

I'd bring both Clarkson and Russell off the bench and start Williams and W.Peace:

G - Williams - Clarkson
G - Bryant - Russell
C - Hibbert - Black
F - Randle - Bass
F - W.Peace - Young

By coming off the bench, I think both Russell and Clarkson would be more aggressive and understanding of their offensive roles.

As presently constructed, the starting lineup has too many alpha scorers which, in turn, makes Russell quite passive as a fourth option.

In my mind at least, Clarkson and Russell's minutes would not be affected, and Kobe would still get significant minutes at SF (with W.Peace and Young getting very limited minutes).

I know Young is on his last leg with some fans but i really liked the clarkson, kobe, young, randle, hibbert. When committed young can be a decent on ball defender and he and kobe can switch assignments based on oponents. I like metta off the bench just to make sure there is toughness on the floor at all times. Hibbert can be starters enforcer with metta in that role for the bench.

nitetrain8603 wrote:

crazyeights wrote:

nitetrain8603 wrote:Like Jakay said, PG is probably the toughest and most drawn out position to develop in the NBA. You have to give Russell time. With that said, I kind of wish Scott made Russell work for a starting spot. Whether he earns it by the end of preseason, after 5 games or at the end of the year, put the carrot ahead of him and let him go after it without opening him up to too much criticism.

I get wanting him to earn it, but how do we know he hasn't? And who is going to take it from him?

Huertas has been injured/getting his immigration status fixed. They want Lou coming off the bench....

Clarkson? They want to develop their chemistry. All I've read is about D'Angelo's leadership, anyway.

In the end: Jim Buss explicitly stated the goal for this year: to find a core going forward. So whether they win or lose, it's about developing the pieces we have. I'd have loved some old vet who has earned the spot already, and for D'lo to have to take it from him, but it's just not the situation we have presently.

I guess that's sort of the wonky part. Trying to juggle Clarkson/D with Kobe's twilight. But hey, if we went Okafor then we'd be having the same issues with he and Randle.

In the end, I don't think it would be wise to play Clarkson and D'Lo together long term. What I would do is start Clarkson at PG with Kobe at SG.

Showcase Lou with DLo while DLo hides his weaknesses, then deal him. Hibbert is another candidate I hope this happens to.

You want to showcase DLo to trade him when he's played like 2 quarters of basketball...and your solution is to have him come off the bench. Riiiiight.

No need to be stuck on labels. Both Clarkson and Russell can initiate the offense. Guys need to learn to shoot off the catch if the offense wants to look good.

pretty much no choice but to put JC as starting PG. Russell is showing he is not ready for the role.

jeroka wrote:pretty much no choice but to put JC as starting PG. Russell is showing he is not ready for the role.

Then who starts at SG or SF then?

nitetrain8603 wrote:

crazyeights wrote:

nitetrain8603 wrote:Like Jakay said, PG is probably the toughest and most drawn out position to develop in the NBA. You have to give Russell time. With that said, I kind of wish Scott made Russell work for a starting spot. Whether he earns it by the end of preseason, after 5 games or at the end of the year, put the carrot ahead of him and let him go after it without opening him up to too much criticism.

I get wanting him to earn it, but how do we know he hasn't? And who is going to take it from him?

Huertas has been injured/getting his immigration status fixed. They want Lou coming off the bench....

Clarkson? They want to develop their chemistry. All I've read is about D'Angelo's leadership, anyway.

In the end: Jim Buss explicitly stated the goal for this year: to find a core going forward. So whether they win or lose, it's about developing the pieces we have. I'd have loved some old vet who has earned the spot already, and for D'lo to have to take it from him, but it's just not the situation we have presently.

I guess that's sort of the wonky part. Trying to juggle Clarkson/D with Kobe's twilight. But hey, if we went Okafor then we'd be having the same issues with he and Randle.

In the end, I don't think it would be wise to play Clarkson and D'Lo together long term. What I would do is start Clarkson at PG with Kobe at SG.

Showcase Lou with DLo while DLo hides his weaknesses, then deal him. Hibbert is another candidate I hope this happens to.

You're not that bright.