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ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue

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ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#1 » by Slava » Wed Oct 7, 2015 9:15 pm

ESPN's Lakers reporter Baxter Holmes is doing a series on Lakers rebuild and what people outside the franchise think of it. He posted his first article today, topic of discussion was Kobe and predictably not one positive response.

"They've got to get rid of Kobe," a scout said.

"You let him walk," an agent said.

"Get rid of Kobe by whatever means necessary," an executive said.

"They've created a monster there," one executive said, "and it's hard to get out of it until he actually goes away."

"That's why I wouldn't want him on the team," one executive said, "because I don't think he'd accept that role."

"When has he ever embraced anything even close to that over the last two-to-three years?" one scout asked. "I don't think you're going to be able to change him to be in a role that he's never been in."

"It's interesting because the guy Kobe patterns himself after is Michael [Jordan] ... but Michael didn't really go out like he wanted to or as gracefully as he could, going to the Wizards," one executive said. "He kind of battled injuries and had some big moments, but never won again, never reached the same level. I keep thinking Kobe is going to have that similar type of exit whenever he finishes up. It would be ironic if that's the way he ended up just because of the way he idolizes him."

"Guys know who Kobe is and that he can be an a--h--- ... playing with him, his personality, him being ball-dominant," an agent said. "People are waiting for him to leave."


The Kobe Bryant Issue | Baxter Holmes | ESPN

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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#2 » by iamworthy » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:07 am

an agent said. "People are waiting for him to leave."


Now that Kobe is closer to the end of his career comments like this make me happy. It shows that free agents still have the Lakers as one of the top destinations. The whole,"free agents don't want to play with Kobe" use to annoy me but I'm over it. The hate on the GB is going to be epic when we sign a big free agent(s).
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#3 » by MistyMountain20 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:14 am

Really, there's nothing worth reading on ESPN outside of Grantland and FiveThirtyEight. Useless stories that tell us nothing.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#4 » by dockingsched » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:46 am

MistyMountain20 wrote:Really, there's nothing worth reading on ESPN outside of Grantland and FiveThirtyEight. Useless stories that tell us nothing.


Baxter Holmes is a really good writer, so I'd give the article a chance just off that. Having read it, unless you get your feelings hurt from reading kind of negative opinions on Kobe, I think it's an interesting look at how other "insiders" either truly feel about Kobe or how they go out of their way to create turmoil for the lakers.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#5 » by MistyMountain20 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 2:23 am

Fair enough, I just really dislike ESPN and middle of the road "sports journalism". Not to say the story isn't true, it's just a safe story for them.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#6 » by Jakay » Thu Oct 8, 2015 2:26 am

Kobe played great yesterday. Totally didn't demand to dominate the offence when he was out there, played within the flow, took good shots (except that one deep three)... if he can keep that up he's going to shut a lot of people up this year.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#7 » by crazyeights » Thu Oct 8, 2015 3:43 am

dockingsched wrote:
MistyMountain20 wrote:Really, there's nothing worth reading on ESPN outside of Grantland and FiveThirtyEight. Useless stories that tell us nothing.


Baxter Holmes is a really good writer, so I'd give the article a chance just off that. Having read it, unless you get your feelings hurt from reading kind of negative opinions on Kobe, I think it's an interesting look at how other "insiders" either truly feel about Kobe or how they go out of their way to create turmoil for the lakers.


To be honest, listening to that Lowe Post makes me take a grain of salt about Holme's knowledge when it comes to Kobe. He admitted he doesn't have a relationship with him.

Just like the outsiders quoted above, when they talk about Jordan and how Kobe idolizes him, and how he's gonna go out the same way...Kobe is well aware of that, and will frankly never go to another team exactly because of what he learned from MJ's career. Whereas on Lowe's show, Baxter thought it was a possibility.

Either Kobe's going to call it quits after this season because he realizes he's not the caliber player he expects himself to be, or he accepts a new role and stays with the Lakers. IIRC it was Jimmy who made it clear that if Kobe's open to discussing a change then they could extend his stay past #20. That last contract was Kobe's payoff. I just don't see any scenario where he plays hardball thinking he's worth more than he is and bolting to another team. So if Kobe's not going to look for a huge payday AND he wants to play again, AND he cares about his legacy, then why would he changes teams? It's not like winning another championship on someone else's team will help him tie Jordan in the mind of anyone. Kobe knows this. Why? Because it's what happened when he was the #2 to Shaq.

Unfortunately when it comes to Kobe, he can't win. There's this narrative in the media that he's created a myth about himself...which I can see how his "brand" can be construed that way, but I think a lot of that is simply who Kobe is. Kobe is maniacal. I've yet to see one shred of evidence to suggest he isn't. And he does put in that work, I've never heard an outsider contradict that. In short: I think Kobe, especially in his later years actually says what he thinks much more than he's given credit for.

I've heard him over and over say how he wants to go out. I think at least at the time, that that's emotionally reliable information. Now there's a chance he falls in love with a new role and keeps playing, I see that happening already. The way he's taking these younger dudes under his wing is remarkable given the way ESPN makes him out to be. It's just lazy, but hey humans are lazy, and when they don't know anything but the narratives driven by 2 decades of headlines, then they miss something.

I feel pretty fortunate to have gotten to witness Kob's evolution, even if the subtleties get lost by the casual fan, and the casual fan's digest: ESPN.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#8 » by Mirjalovic » Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:01 am

Jakay wrote:Kobe played great yesterday. Totally didn't demand to dominate the offence when he was out there, played within the flow, took good shots (except that one deep three)... if he can keep that up he's going to shut a lot of people up this year.


true and the rookies didn't blindly feed him the ball.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#9 » by dockingsched » Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:17 am

crazyeights wrote:
dockingsched wrote:
MistyMountain20 wrote:Really, there's nothing worth reading on ESPN outside of Grantland and FiveThirtyEight. Useless stories that tell us nothing.


Baxter Holmes is a really good writer, so I'd give the article a chance just off that. Having read it, unless you get your feelings hurt from reading kind of negative opinions on Kobe, I think it's an interesting look at how other "insiders" either truly feel about Kobe or how they go out of their way to create turmoil for the lakers.


To be honest, listening to that Lowe Post makes me take a grain of salt about Holme's knowledge when it comes to Kobe. He admitted he doesn't have a relationship with him.

This article wasn't about Holmes having any special info on Kobe though, it was about the decision that the franchise is going to face at the end of the year if Kobe decides he wants to keep playing. From that starting point, it was mostly about how NBA insiders perceive the challenge that faces the lakers, and then it was about how the lakers might be planning to handle it. It has little to do with how Kobe might play his cards, which is the part that would require Holmes to have some inside scoop with Kobe.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#10 » by Jakay » Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:19 am

Mirjalovic wrote:
Jakay wrote:Kobe played great yesterday. Totally didn't demand to dominate the offence when he was out there, played within the flow, took good shots (except that one deep three)... if he can keep that up he's going to shut a lot of people up this year.


true and the rookies didn't blindly feed him the ball.


Yeah, who was that... Clarkson I think who totally ignored him calling for it after he missed and they regained possession. Not that I want to see Kobe frozen out, but it was good to see the team take the blinders off.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#11 » by ak7 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 12:45 pm

I think a lot of people are in denial in regards to the negative impact Kobe is having on us being able to attract free agents. A lot of these big name guys are used to being "the man," it's a tough pill to swallow to come here and waste 1-2-3 years of their career in Kobe's father-time induced shadow.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a superstar out there who is thinking "man if Kobe would just leave, I'd love to go be the face of that franchise."

Think about it - if you're the CEO of some successful company, why would you want to go work for another company in the shadow of another CEO who at this point in his and your career, might not be able to do things as successfully as the way you can. Especially if you would have to turn down millions to make that move.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#12 » by ALL HAIL » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:08 pm

Not that they can't do it, but unless it's a center, I'm beginning to think that the Lakers don't really need a superstar free-agent.

I think they've already got one or two potential stars on the roster already. Resign Kobe and let the pups grow as they snatch the go-to scorer role away from him.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#13 » by Kilroy » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:46 pm

Jakay wrote:
Mirjalovic wrote:
Jakay wrote:Kobe played great yesterday. Totally didn't demand to dominate the offence when he was out there, played within the flow, took good shots (except that one deep three)... if he can keep that up he's going to shut a lot of people up this year.


true and the rookies didn't blindly feed him the ball.


Yeah, who was that... Clarkson I think who totally ignored him calling for it after he missed and they regained possession. Not that I want to see Kobe frozen out, but it was good to see the team take the blinders off.


Yeah, I agree with this series of posts, I get an error when I +1 otherwise I would have done that too.

The timing of this article is suspect to me... It sounds like it's about 2 seasons too late, which makes me wonder when those quotes were gathered and what the point is at this particular time... It's like they were waiting for Kobe to do anything at all on the court before they dropped this...

Haven't seen anything from Kobe THIS SEASON that would indicate to me he hasn't accepted a reduced role on this team. In fact, I see a guy out there that seems to have one foot out the door mentally. Kobe doesn't look as engaged this season as he has previously. He's still out there playing hard, but not with the same intensity... Which is to be expected given his age and injury history, and it's also a good thing for the development of the team.

So good work on the article, but I think you missed your deadline, Holme.

That said, I am 100% certain there are people around the league that believe those things... In fact it's not even newsworthy to me.
Just that whatever negative impact Kobe once had either emotionally or financially, is almost completely in the past.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#14 » by iamworthy » Thu Oct 8, 2015 1:49 pm

ALL HAIL wrote:Not that they can't do it, but unless it's a center, I'm beginning to think that the Lakers don't really need a superstar free-agent.

I think they've already got one or two potential stars on the roster already. Resign Kobe and let the pups grow as they snatch the go-to scorer role away from him.


I don't disagree with this but I think you need a marquee free agent if you want to accelerate the rebuild process. Durant would be perfect because he's still in his prime. As he begins his decline the young pups would be on the rise. So we win now and later. Not only that but we have to do something with all the money we're going to have.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#15 » by TyCobb » Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:59 pm

I know he's no Derek Jeter, but it's pathetic the treatment Kobe is receiving on his way out.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#16 » by WVlakerfan » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:14 pm

I'm convinced that Lebron could punt a kitten on sports center and they would say look how far it went...Kobe on the other hand has done nothing to provoke the unwarranted attacks that espn has been dropping for the last 3 years just because they know it will get reactions from fans that actually appreciate what he has done and trolls alike. Your telling me Jahill oakafor is better than kobe bryant when he has never logged 1 min in a professional regular season game?
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#17 » by ALL HAIL » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:26 pm

TyCobb wrote:I know he's no Derek Jeter, but it's pathetic the treatment Kobe is receiving on his way out.

He's a very easy target by virtue of being one Kobe Bean, but he's a doubly easy target because of his multiple season-ending injuries and the money he was being paid while rehabbing.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#18 » by crazyeights » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:49 pm

dockingsched wrote:
MistyMountain20 wrote:Really, there's nothing worth reading on ESPN outside of Grantland and FiveThirtyEight. Useless stories that tell us nothing.


Baxter Holmes is a really good writer, so I'd give the article a chance just off that. Having read it, unless you get your feelings hurt from reading kind of negative opinions on Kobe, I think it's an interesting look at how other "insiders" either truly feel about Kobe or how they go out of their way to create turmoil for the lakers.


Quoting this post to show what I was responding to. I'm pointing out that what outside "insiders" think is peddling the same old narrative that anyone who has actually paid attention to Kobe's career knows is just false and a waste of time.

It has nothing to do with how good of a writer Holmes is if his perspective is from one angle: outside.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#19 » by ArC_man » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:04 pm

This just seems like ESPN's yearly hit article on Kobe.
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Re: ESPN Lakers Series Part I: The Kobe Issue 

Post#20 » by Slava » Thu Oct 8, 2015 8:27 pm

To be frank these are all quotes from scouts, low to mid-level executives and agents, not GMs, fellow players or anyone Kobe would ever have remotely had a direct conversation with or given close access to himself. Their response would not differ much from what the average opposition fan on the General Board thinks of him.

For example the one agent whose quotes keep coming up could well be David Lee who the Lakers took the cleaners and dropped like a bad habit during Ariza's extension talks that ended badly and his other client with the Lakers was Bynum who the Lakers dealt before he could command a max deal and never got anywhere in his career after that.
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