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GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN

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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#201 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Nov 3, 2016 6:30 pm

politm wrote:The one problem I have with this team is that they don't box out. Man, I can understand TO's (young team and all that), I can understand not being good on D, especially when we don't have any good defensive players, but not boxing out is painful to watch. In the first half Howard is at the line, misses the second FT and they get an offensive board. Man, it's Howard, not Curry, it's quite a big chance that he misses so box the f out. In the second half the exact same thing happened and we gave up a 5 point play. It's the most frustrating to watch, because we're pretty bad on D and when we finally get a stop they may get an offensive board.


I hear it. We gotta clean that up.

Do remember....that was literally the first minutes of pro basketball by Zubac. You know the guy's running around trying to remember play calls, positions, etc etc etc. Just an ocean of information sloshing around finally being put to the test.....in front of thousands of people, against one of the best centers of this generation.

It's a team-wide issue thought..I agree.

As for the "don't have any good defensive players" comment...I dunno. I guess that depends on what you wanna call a good defensive player. Aren't there only like 8 guys you could call 'good defensive players'? Those defensive specialists are few and far between, and so you usually settle for hoping your guy at least sticks to his man. I certainly didn't see good defense last finals by either team. GS just missed a trillion completely open looks. And they certainly weren't stopping the Cavs. OKC and GS didn't show me anything in their series either.

04 Pistons, 08-09-10 Celtics...I gotta go back into the annuls after those 2. Spurs could be decent year to year, but not like those 2 teams. It's seriously rare to have legit "Good defensive teams". Let's face it: the rules are completely rigged to promote offensive play. The money goes to offensive players. I'd argue it's counter productive to spend too much time on defense....your swimming upstream in today's NBA. I think the Warriors have it just about right....they are a decent defensive team...good team rotations, but nobody close to a Tony Allen. They defend just good enough to not make it easy. Meanwhile they are racking up offense left and right. I think we should do exactly that.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#202 » by Goudelock » Thu Nov 3, 2016 7:45 pm

Igoudala is a really good defender on the Warriors, but I agree with your overall point.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#203 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Nov 3, 2016 8:02 pm

PockyCandy wrote:Igoudala is a really good defender on the Warriors, but I agree with your overall point.


Yeah...went back and forth on him. He's their best one on one defender, no doubt. I don't know that he hangs his hat on his defense night in, night out like Tony Allen does. He brings it against Lebron. Not sure about the bulk of his career. Certainly a great defender by today's standards...so ok, I'll concede it.

I'm definitely not saying guys don't need to play defense. Your gonna need to be able to get stops now and then. I think good teams wanna have that Igoudala / Battier guy. I just don't think you have to have "great defense" to win. Look at the Heat, Dallas, Most Laker teams recently, Most Spurs teams, etc. I'd say there are prob more examples of Championship teams in the last 30 years that had "sub par defense" than there are teams that have "really good defense".
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#204 » by politm » Thu Nov 3, 2016 8:18 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:
politm wrote:The one problem I have with this team is that they don't box out. Man, I can understand TO's (young team and all that), I can understand not being good on D, especially when we don't have any good defensive players, but not boxing out is painful to watch. In the first half Howard is at the line, misses the second FT and they get an offensive board. Man, it's Howard, not Curry, it's quite a big chance that he misses so box the f out. In the second half the exact same thing happened and we gave up a 5 point play. It's the most frustrating to watch, because we're pretty bad on D and when we finally get a stop they may get an offensive board.


I hear it. We gotta clean that up.

Do remember....that was literally the first minutes of pro basketball by Zubac. You know the guy's running around trying to remember play calls, positions, etc etc etc. Just an ocean of information sloshing around finally being put to the test.....in front of thousands of people, against one of the best centers of this generation.

It's a team-wide issue thought..I agree.

As for the "don't have any good defensive players" comment...I dunno. I guess that depends on what you wanna call a good defensive player. Aren't there only like 8 guys you could call 'good defensive players'? Those defensive specialists are few and far between, and so you usually settle for hoping your guy at least sticks to his man. I certainly didn't see good defense last finals by either team. GS just missed a trillion completely open looks. And they certainly weren't stopping the Cavs. OKC and GS didn't show me anything in their series either.

04 Pistons, 08-09-10 Celtics...I gotta go back into the annuls after those 2. Spurs could be decent year to year, but not like those 2 teams. It's seriously rare to have legit "Good defensive teams". Let's face it: the rules are completely rigged to promote offensive play. The money goes to offensive players. I'd argue it's counter productive to spend too much time on defense....your swimming upstream in today's NBA. I think the Warriors have it just about right....they are a decent defensive team...good team rotations, but nobody close to a Tony Allen. They defend just good enough to not make it easy. Meanwhile they are racking up offense left and right. I think we should do exactly that.


I wasn't talking about Zubac, as a matter of fact I didn't have any expectations from him, was pretty sure Howard was going to take advantage of his matchup. The box out issue happened with him and without him on the floor. We had the same issues against Utah or Pacers and don't get me started about the game against OKC. It's just frustrating to watch.

When I'm saying good defensive guys I'm obviously not talking about guys like Kawhi, Allen, etc. that are elite on the defensive end. What I'm talking about is a player that at least can bring some energy on the defensive end, set the tone, maybe ask him to guard the best player from the other team. Bazemore is that guy for Atlanta and they have Thabo on the bench. For now we are stuck with Nick Young on that role. Deng was that guy...4 or 5 years ago.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#205 » by politm » Thu Nov 3, 2016 8:22 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:Igoudala is a really good defender on the Warriors, but I agree with your overall point.


Yeah...went back and forth on him. He's their best one on one defender, no doubt. I don't know that he hangs his hat on his defense night in, night out like Tony Allen does. He brings it against Lebron. Not sure about the bulk of his career. Certainly a great defender by today's standards...so ok, I'll concede it.

I'm definitely not saying guys don't need to play defense. Your gonna need to be able to get stops now and then. I think good teams wanna have that Igoudala / Battier guy. I just don't think you have to have "great defense" to win. Look at the Heat, Dallas, Most Laker teams recently, Most Spurs teams, etc. I'd say there are prob more examples of Championship teams in the last 30 years that had "sub par defense" than there are teams that have "really good defense".


You guys are forgetting about Draymond Green. He's an incredible defender.

I get what you are saying, but the teams with sub par defense that have won the ship had some elite offensive players. We don't have any of that.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#206 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Nov 3, 2016 8:26 pm

politm wrote: When I'm saying good defensive guys I'm obviously not talking about guys like Kawhi, Allen, etc. that are elite on the defensive end. What I'm talking about is a player that at least can bring some energy on the defensive end, set the tone, maybe ask him to guard the best player from the other team. Bazemore is that guy for Atlanta and they have Thabo on the bench. For now we are stuck with Nick Young on that role. Deng was that guy...4 or 5 years ago.


Yeah...I get ya. I think we are prob on same page. We're definitely a poor defensive team right now. We definitely need to get up into the "decent" category, or we will continue to lose games we shouldn't. That last 4 minutes of the OKC game illustrates your point precisely. They clamped down, we watched them shred us. =0)
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#207 » by Slava » Thu Nov 3, 2016 10:04 pm

Finished watching the complete game just now and I love how Luke stayed the course with Zubac despite his mistakes and foul trouble. Any other coach could easily have benched Zubac for T-Rob for teh rest of teh game but Luke kept faith in the process of developing young players and its even better when you can win while doing it.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#208 » by Slava » Thu Nov 3, 2016 10:08 pm

Also worth noting Lou Will really does have ice in his veins. That late game composure was phenomenal.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#209 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Nov 3, 2016 10:36 pm

Slava wrote:Finished watching the complete game just now and I love how Luke stayed the course with Zubac despite his mistakes and foul trouble. Any other coach could easily have benched Zubac for T-Rob for teh rest of teh game but Luke kept faith in the process of developing young players and its even better when you can win while doing it.


Yeah...I agree. Down the line, we'll be happy we did it this way. There will be rough patches, but that's just the way it goes.

Ol' Zube has a nice little turn-around "half-hook" shot, doesn't he? Liked that he took it to Howard right from the get-go.

Really nice game. Alot of guys stepped up at the end. Nance, Lou...Randle with a big block. Young dropped the dagger.

Hey shout out to any Atlanta Laker fans...you guys were GREAT last night. Hard to tell who was the home team half the time.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#210 » by Slava » Thu Nov 3, 2016 10:51 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:
Slava wrote:Finished watching the complete game just now and I love how Luke stayed the course with Zubac despite his mistakes and foul trouble. Any other coach could easily have benched Zubac for T-Rob for teh rest of teh game but Luke kept faith in the process of developing young players and its even better when you can win while doing it.


Yeah...I agree. Down the line, we'll be happy we did it this way. There will be rough patches, but that's just the way it goes.

Ol' Zube has a nice little turn-around "half-hook" shot, doesn't he? Liked that he took it to Howard right from the get-go.

Really nice game. Alot of guys stepped up at the end. Nance, Lou...Randle with a big block. Young dropped the dagger.

Hey shout out to any Atlanta Laker fans...you guys were GREAT last night. Hard to tell who was the home team half the time.


It also reminds you how raw he is with the mistakes he was committing, not to mention Howard being an entirely different league to him physically. There's a reason his first two seasons will involve sitting on the sidelines and taking a lot of notes, just like Bynum early on in his career.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#211 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Nov 3, 2016 11:04 pm

Yeah totally. I was watching game with a couple buddies, and they all know I'm think very high of Zubac. Right at the start of the game, he hits those couple shots, and I'm struttin' around...thats my boy! We need to start his A**!! And then a minute later Dwight's making him look the fool....so I had to sit down and shut up. "He ain't startin' with THAT defense" I heard a couple times. "Were you saying start Dwight??" Was thrown my way as well.

....like you said..it will be a couple seasons. But it has to start somewhere, so it was good to get him out on the floor.
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#212 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 5, 2016 12:39 am

danfantastk32 wrote:Yeah totally. I was watching game with a couple buddies, and they all know I'm think very high of Zubac. Right at the start of the game, he hits those couple shots, and I'm struttin' around...thats my boy! We need to start his A**!! And then a minute later Dwight's making him look the fool....so I had to sit down and shut up. "He ain't startin' with THAT defense" I heard a couple times. "Were you saying start Dwight??" Was thrown my way as well.

....like you said..it will be a couple seasons. But it has to start somewhere, so it was good to get him out on the floor.


He got baptized for sure in that game. He was OK and especially good given the situation IMHO. If crap defense was a recipe for sitting on the bench our guard rotation might not see the floor again this season :lol:
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#213 » by Jakay » Sat Nov 5, 2016 4:12 am

Oh, GS woke up for real
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Re: GT: Lakers @ Hawks Nov 2nd, 4pm, SpecSN 

Post#214 » by Slava » Sat Nov 5, 2016 7:35 pm

The breakdown

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